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Trade Emelin?

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Old
11-13-2011, 05:42 PM
  #51
Andy
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
I see a lot of posts saying our defense is playing good and we're winning games and we don't need to play Emelin because of that. I guess I'm watching different games than you guys. Our defense is atrocious and we're in 12th place. 24th in the league. With the exception of Ottawa most of the teams ahead of us have played less games too.
Expect that we're 6-3-1 in our last 10, 6-2-0 since the firing of Pearn and have dramatically improved in every area of play expect the Powerplay since then. They have allowed 11 goals in their last 5 games, two of which were empty netters. How bad can they actually be on defense? Can they improve yes..but they have been far from atrocious.

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11-13-2011, 05:45 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
I see a lot of posts saying our defense is playing good and we're winning games and we don't need to play Emelin because of that. I guess I'm watching different games than you guys. Our defense is atrocious and we're in 12th place. 24th in the league. With the exception of Ottawa most of the teams ahead of us have played less games too.
How could you miss les feuilles mortes, sometimes known as the Buds, or even the Toronto Maple Leafs, who have played one more game?

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11-13-2011, 06:00 PM
  #53
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I sure as hope O'byrne's future with the team was doomed, the guy was a brutal NHL player.
I think he is still in the league

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11-13-2011, 06:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I don't suppose you considered that none of them were traded in their first season with the Habs, much less after 16 games. In an attempt to quell your anxiety I'd suggest that you wait until the end of the season. The Habs will have disposable baggage in the D corps when first Markov and then Campoli return, followed eventually by the expiration of Gill's and Campoli's contracts. Besides, it's not clear whether Diaz will be playing in Montréal or Hamilton after the Christmas break.
True enough.

I see enough good qualities in this guy that I want to see him stick around in the hope he will become a big contributor.

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11-13-2011, 06:23 PM
  #55
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It'd be really neat if he accepted a stint in the AHL to gain chemistry and a relationship with Avtsin. Guarantee that he'll be brought back up this year WITH Avtsin when there is an absence and they'll call them the Russian Renegades, thus revolutionizing the game Russianly.

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11-13-2011, 07:29 PM
  #56
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Hopefully you arent our GM.. Patience with this kid.. he has communication issue and has to adapt to the system.. The kid has everything to succeed.. He is big physical and has underrated skills.. He will be good, just be patient.

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11-13-2011, 07:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by stubbadub View Post
It'd be really neat if he accepted a stint in the AHL to gain chemistry and a relationship with Avtsin. Guarantee that he'll be brought back up this year WITH Avtsin when there is an absence and they'll call them the Russian Renegades, thus revolutionizing the game Russianly.
If he is to bond with anyone, it should be with Markov, not with a rookie who hasn't yet figured things out for himself.

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11-13-2011, 07:36 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Hopefully you arent our GM.. Patience with this kid.. he has communication issue and has to adapt to the system.. The kid has everything to succeed.. He is big physical and has underrated skills.. He will be good, just be patient.
I guess the title of the thread is misleading... actually, it's completely wrong. I didn't want to suggest trading Emelin, it was something I was afraid might happen. I would have all the patience in the world with this guy because I think the upside is huge.

In fact, I would have so much patience with him that he would be playing, making mistakes, probably costing the team goals in the short run because I think ice time is exactly what he needs to develop.

What concerns me more is that Emelin might not have the patience or just as bad, the Habs might not have the patience

If the thread could be changed to "Don't Trade Emelin" it would be more accurate.

My apologies

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11-13-2011, 07:38 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I guess the title of the thread is misleading... actually, it's completely wrong. I didn't want to suggest trading Emelin, it was something I was afraid might happen. I would have all the patience in the world with this guy because I think the upside is huge.

In fact, I would have so much patience with him that he would be playing, making mistakes, probably costing the team goals in the short run because I think ice time is exactly what he needs to develop.

What concerns me more is that Emelin might not have the patience or just as bad, the Habs might not have the patience

If the thread could be changed to "Don't Trade Emelin" it would be more accurate.

My apologies
Until Emelin "gets" it his trade value would be low.

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11-13-2011, 07:42 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Until Emelin "gets" it his trade value would be low.
Do you mean he needs to learn to play within Martin's system?

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11-13-2011, 08:34 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I guess the title of the thread is misleading... actually, it's completely wrong. I didn't want to suggest trading Emelin, it was something I was afraid might happen. I would have all the patience in the world with this guy because I think the upside is huge.

In fact, I would have so much patience with him that he would be playing, making mistakes, probably costing the team goals in the short run because I think ice time is exactly what he needs to develop.

What concerns me more is that Emelin might not have the patience or just as bad, the Habs might not have the patience

If the thread could be changed to "Don't Trade Emelin" it would be more accurate.

My apologies
Its ok I read your post too quickly.. In fact, Im sure the kid is working pretty hard in practices and is slowly used to the language.. I think it will be easier for him when Markov is back in the line-up, I expect Markov to be a great mentor for him..


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Old
11-13-2011, 08:41 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
How could you miss les feuilles mortes, sometimes known as the Buds, or even the Toronto Maple Leafs, who have played one more game?
We're not even close to Toronto in points. We'd need to win three straight and them to drop two straight to be ahead of them. I figured it was a big enough gap to ignore for the time being.

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Old
11-13-2011, 08:55 PM
  #63
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No. Theres a good chance Neither Gill or Spacek will be here next year and who knows how Markovs health will ever be.

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11-13-2011, 08:59 PM
  #64
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Emelin do well with a return by Markov. If they are paired it could be good cause of language alone. Markov would mentor and speak the language, making the transition easier, not to mention they compliment each other cause of their styles.

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11-13-2011, 09:14 PM
  #65
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i will be eager to see Markovs mobility now turning and skating,He could be retiring if he cannot regain the form he use to have.sad actually what he has gone through but he well paid at least,

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Old
11-14-2011, 01:39 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
I'm not really sure where the glory days of Travis Moen's NHL career that you seem to be harking back to actually occured? 'Putrid year' with 16 pts and -2. 'Slightly better the year before with 19 points'? Hmm, those'll both be better than any year he played in Anaheim except the year they won the Stanley Cup. When he had 21 points and was -4.

The two seasons after that and before he came to Montreal:

07-08 8 points, -10
08-09 16 points, -18.
Although it might have sounded that way because of poor wording, I didn't imply a cause to effect between his stats and the quality of his play. Merely commenting on how I felt his stats now don't represent the player he is (I'll gladly eat crow if he magically turns into a 25 goal scorer though) or how he made his mark in the NHL. I remember a player with more aggression in his game during the Anaheim days and that was setting him appart from all the other generic looking dime a dozen defensive players. The putrid comment refers to last year's perceived effort level and overall utility to the team. Subjective opinion.

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Old
11-14-2011, 02:41 AM
  #67
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If that's true about him agreeing he'd play in Hamilton for some stint, I find it weird they'd let that stipulation in because I think players would start handcuffing teams into that more often...but also it is good to hear and hopefully once everyone is healthy (LOL!!!) he can either be playing nightly (or even every other game) in the NHL, or playing 20+ minutes a night for a couple of months in the AHL. I really like the sounds of that. Especially if he's got the want and enthusiasm to get better and sees it as an opportunity to work on his game and play some bigger minutes.

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Old
11-14-2011, 06:17 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post

If that's true about him agreeing he'd play in Hamilton for some stint, I find it weird they'd let that stipulation in because I think players would start handcuffing teams into that more often...but also it is good to hear and hopefully once everyone is healthy (LOL!!!) he can either be playing nightly (or even every other game) in the NHL, or playing 20+ minutes a night for a couple of months in the AHL. I really like the sounds of that. Especially if he's got the want and enthusiasm to get better and sees it as an opportunity to work on his game and play some bigger minutes.
What's true? Emelin may agree to play in the AHL? Is there an article on this I missed? 'Because this would be great for Emelin and our Habs, but...I'm always afraid that Emelin will just think ''**** this, I'm outta here''.

20 minutes in the AHL right now is way better than just practicing and being a healthy scratch (obvious). 10-20-30 games for his confidence...until we have injuries to our dmen. Avtsin could help with english although I'm not sure if Avtsin is semi-fluent now or less...?

I hope management doesn't trade him since his value can't be that high right now.
Not as high as when he will be playing 18min+/game, and that's when we will want to keep him anyway. Can't trade him even though I know that the thread starter wasn't talking about trading Emelin but just brought it up because Emelin is not playing and may lose patience and bolt for Russia (WE DON'T WANT THAT AFTER ALL THAT WAITING FOR EMELIN!!! 5-6+ years of waiting!!).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 11-14-2011 at 06:34 AM.
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Old
11-14-2011, 08:12 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
If that's true about him agreeing he'd play in Hamilton for some stint, I find it weird they'd let that stipulation in because I think players would start handcuffing teams into that more often...but also it is good to hear and hopefully once everyone is healthy (LOL!!!) he can either be playing nightly (or even every other game) in the NHL, or playing 20+ minutes a night for a couple of months in the AHL. I really like the sounds of that. Especially if he's got the want and enthusiasm to get better and sees it as an opportunity to work on his game and play some bigger minutes.
Players already handcuff teams with their demands for a no-trade contract, but I agree with you. When players start dictating terms it can create problems.

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Old
11-14-2011, 08:18 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
Martin has never been about aggression. He likes his players smart and well positioned. Aggressive hitting machines are usually the exact opposite. That's why we have so few, that's why Moen turned into a much softer version of his former self. That's also probably why we haven't seen PK go for the big hit in a while and why O'Byrne never got the confidence from the coach. Also why Emelin will likely suffer the same fate. It's all very predictable.

The only thing that could save Emelin right now is if he can demonstrate he can play mistake free positional hockey, which he hasn't done yet. It's a bit unfair to him because his game is about aggression and he's clearly being held back, just like all the other I'm sure very frustrated physical players that have played for Martin in the past.

As long as Martin coaches this team, there will not be an overly aggressive player on it, especially a young unproven one, simply because it goes against what he preaches.
Wow, terrific post and is probably right on. JM requires players to play his system to a T and this requires rigid positional play. Players going for a big hit every now and then are more likely to get caught out of position. Holy Cow, its all about winning I guess but JM has to have the most boring system in the entire history of hockey .. dont hit, dont forecheck aggressively, dump and chase but dont really chase etc.

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Old
11-14-2011, 09:07 AM
  #71
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Wow, terrific post and is probably right on. JM requires players to play his system to a T and this requires rigid positional play. Players going for a big hit every now and then are more likely to get caught out of position. Holy Cow, its all about winning I guess but JM has to have the most boring system in the entire history of hockey .. dont hit, dont forecheck aggressively, dump and chase but dont really chase etc.
I agree with the both of you, and while I do like the D going for the big hit, its clear that going for the aggressive hit leads to getting out of position. Like it or not, Subban game improved greatly last season after he stopped going for the big hit and stayed in position. I saw a thread a few days ago, with someone gave stat on how Emelin had a lot of hits, but few blocked shots, while Diaz had few hits but more blocked shots.

I think this theory many belongs to the D only though, because some of the forwards do lay out hits, I think Cole is top 10 in the league in hits, but he doesn't go out of his way in give out the hit putting him out of position.

But to the OP's question, you really can't trade him, he doesn't have much value, but I think we all see there is a lot of talent in Emelin, it just takes time, the guy is 25 years old, no rush at all. If he wants to bolt and go back to Russia than that his fault, because IMO if he puts the work in, he'll be a regular on this D in the future.

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11-14-2011, 09:12 AM
  #72
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I agree with the both of you, and while I do like the D going for the big hit, its clear that going for the aggressive hit leads to getting out of position. Like it or not, Subban game improved greatly last season after he stopped going for the big hit and stayed in position. I saw a thread a few days ago, with someone gave stat on how Emelin had a lot of hits, but few blocked shots, while Diaz had few hits but more blocked shots.

I think this theory many belongs to the D only though, because some of the forwards do lay out hits, I think Cole is top 10 in the league in hits, but he doesn't go out of his way in give out the hit putting him out of position.

But to the OP's question, you really can't trade him, he doesn't have much value, but I think we all see there is a lot of talent in Emelin, it just takes time, the guy is 25 years old, no rush at all. If he wants to bolt and go back to Russia than that his fault, because IMO if he puts the work in, he'll be a regular on this D in the future.

Good points. And again JM doesn't hate big hits. Every coach will always promote finishing your checks. Which is what Cole is doing like you point out.

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Old
11-14-2011, 09:23 AM
  #73
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Good points. And again JM doesn't hate big hits. Every coach will always promote finishing your checks. Which is what Cole is doing like you point out.
Excatly,

making an aggressive hit specially for a D-man can easily lead to a good scoring chance,
For example look at PK hits 6,5,4,3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwVFX-N3YSE

Hits 6 and 4, arevery nice but since they were on 3-2, by Subban making the hit it would have easily been a 2-1 for the oppents. But hits 4-3 are perfect because there was always someone in position to back him up.

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11-14-2011, 09:58 AM
  #74
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I agree with the both of you, and while I do like the D going for the big hit, its clear that going for the aggressive hit leads to getting out of position. Like it or not, Subban game improved greatly last season after he stopped going for the big hit and stayed in position. I saw a thread a few days ago, with someone gave stat on how Emelin had a lot of hits, but few blocked shots, while Diaz had few hits but more blocked shots.

I think this theory many belongs to the D only though, because some of the forwards do lay out hits, I think Cole is top 10 in the league in hits, but he doesn't go out of his way in give out the hit putting him out of position.

But to the OP's question, you really can't trade him, he doesn't have much value, but I think we all see there is a lot of talent in Emelin, it just takes time, the guy is 25 years old, no rush at all. If he wants to bolt and go back to Russia than that his fault, because IMO if he puts the work in, he'll be a regular on this D in the future.
You're probably right saying it's more critical for the defensemen, because them being caught out of position usually leads to a scoring chance against. But I do see JM as a coach who gives very little value to intimidation (not goon tactics, just fear of being hit) or even the good ol' grinding wearing down game. It's not his style. So I always refrain from being too critical with a player who appears a little on the soft side playing under Martin simply because finishing checks and being the aggressor is probably not on the list of priorities and therefore instructions to his players. A guy like Blunden will try very hard to impress his coach by hitting everything that moves and probably always ultimately fail in the end.

I miss the old days of a Langdon - Begin - Ward 4th line and even with guys like Moen and White in the lineup, I don't expect to see the same kind of game, simply because of who is in the driver seat.


Last edited by Munchausen: 11-14-2011 at 10:03 AM.
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Old
11-14-2011, 10:31 AM
  #75
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His upside is higher that Diaz's. Emelin, however, will not evolve under Jacques Martin but hopefully Randy Ladouceur and Markov will help him become a solid NHLer.

That being said, if Emelin can tough it out and play the rest of the year in Hamilton, he should be a solid player next year when Gill, Spacek and Campoli will likely need to be replaced. He has a spot on the team... next year.

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