So... from what I understand from the debate here... On one side, you have people saying :
- DD will reach 100 pts for sure!
On the other side we have people saying :
- DD will never get to 40 pts!
Can we find some kind of middle ground...? I think DD is shaping up as a future ±70 points player. Is this reasonable?
But one thing I know for sure : I'll never, never, NEVER bet against a player who has continually exceeded expectations and who has made an habit of making professional scouts and other "experts" eat crows. While I think those who say DD will get 100 points are over excited, I think those who are tearing him down are making a fundamental mistake.
So among the 2, I think Eller will become the most complete player and the most valuable one. But he may never get DD's offensive numbers.
So... from what I understand from the debate here... On one side, you have people saying :
- DD will reach 100 pts for sure!
On the other side we have people saying :
- DD will never get to 40 pts!
Can we find some kind of middle ground...? I think DD is shaping up as a future ±70 points player. Is this reasonable?
But one thing I know for sure : I'll never, never, NEVER bet against a player who has continually exceeded expectations and who has made an habit of making professional scouts and other "experts" eat crows. While I think those who say DD will get 100 points are over excited, I think those who are tearing him down are making a fundamental mistake.
So among the 2, I think Eller will become the most complete player and the most valuable one. But he may never get DD's offensive numbers.
In the "new" NHL, and in Montreal under Martin: impossible.
A good 50 points + solid play is the most I am expecting from him.
So... from what I understand from the debate here... On one side, you have people saying :
- DD will reach 100 pts for sure!
On the other side we have people saying :
- DD will never get to 40 pts!
Can we find some kind of middle ground...? I think DD is shaping up as a future ±70 points player. Is this reasonable?
But one thing I know for sure : I'll never, never, NEVER bet against a player who has continually exceeded expectations and who has made an habit of making professional scouts and other "experts" eat crows. While I think those who say DD will get 100 points are over excited, I think those who are tearing him down are making a fundamental mistake.
So among the 2, I think Eller will become the most complete player and the most valuable one. But he may never get DD's offensive numbers.
Listen there will always be 2 sides to the coin, and 2 extremes to every topic, I think the DD love here is clouding the judgement of both sides, and I think somewhere in the middle would be a fair place to agree to disagree. I'll retract my previous statement and say if DD has 2 bonified top 6 wingers with him he can crack 50 points, if not, if its DD-moen-darche forget it, hes better off on the wing and wont crack 40 points.
That being said we haven't even mentioned if Eller had been given those kind of line mates for a consistent amount of time like DD we'd be singing a different tune.
So in short, do I personally think 70 points for DD is insane? No, not if you have Ovechkin-DD-Cammalleri as a first line, but realistically? yeah its a little excessive. I think 35-45 points is where he'll be at, and where he'll cap off, can't say the same for Eller as I feel once he gets comfy, and develops even more confidence, he will really shine, and people will be like "Holy **** we got him?" yep.
Listen there will always be 2 sides to the coin, and 2 extremes to every topic, I think the DD love here is clouding the judgement of both sides, and I think somewhere in the middle would be a fair place to agree to disagree. I'll retract my previous statement and say if DD has 2 bonified top 6 wingers with him he can crack 50 points, if not, if its DD-moen-darche forget it, hes better off on the wing and wont crack 40 points.
That being said we haven't even mentioned if Eller had been given those kind of line mates for a consistent amount of time like DD we'd be singing a different tune.
So in short, do I personally think 70 points for DD is insane? No, not if you have Ovechkin-DD-Cammalleri as a first line, but realistically? yeah its a little excessive. I think 35-45 points is where he'll be at, and where he'll cap off, can't say the same for Eller as I feel once he gets comfy, and develops even more confidence, he will really shine, and people will be like "Holy **** we got him?" yep.
Well, to be fair, if there was a line of Moen-Gretzky-Darche that was playing 11 minutes a game with no power play time, I think Gretzky himself would have trouble to reach 40 points. If a player reaches 40 points on the 4th line, it means he doesn't belong on the 4th line.
But Desharnais is not the kind of player you want on a checking line. Therefore, he should get top 6 minutes and PP time during all of his career and 60-70 points should not be too difficult to reach considering his great offensive instinct.
Last edited by Partisan du CH: 11-14-2011 at 03:03 PM.
Most poeple who says Eller is playing with lesser winger are saying in the Kostitsyn thread how he is a beast and a top 6 winger. Yet they both play together so its 1 or the other.
DD, last year in his rookie year, was at .50pts\game, while Eller this year, his 2nd season, is at .25pts\game. And DD was playing 3rd and 4th line last year.
Again, for the wingers excuse, Cole was going nowhere before playing with David. Same thing with Max. He produces more while playing with DD. So, how does the credit goes to them.
Eller could be 3 times bigger and twice the skill as Desharnais, if at the end he cant put points on scoreboard, hes not 2nd line player.
With the bad start of the season, JM does not have time to test anything, he goes with what he knows. And what he knows is DD produces and Eller does not.
And yes I agree, Eller is more talented than DD. Maybe next year. Eller will be ahead but not now.
A lot were not happy about Latendresse yet he was producing more than eller and was playing with Lapierre and kostopoulos without pp time.
I say Eller, but just keep both. They are both our future, Eller maybe a bit more, but Desharnais is a young playmaker who has a lot of heart. These guys are our future 2nd and 3rd centers probably.
I said a jordan staal for us. I never said jordan staal. Eller will never be as good as Jordan.
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Originally Posted by Duramarier
Most poeple who says Eller is playing with lesser winger are saying in the Kostitsyn thread how he is a beast and a top 6 winger. Yet they both play together so its 1 or the other.
DD, last year in his rookie year, was at .50pts\game, while Eller this year, his 2nd season, is at .25pts\game. And DD was playing 3rd and 4th line last year.
Again, for the wingers excuse, Cole was going nowhere before playing with David. Same thing with Max. He produces more while playing with DD. So, how does the credit goes to them.
Eller could be 3 times bigger and twice the skill as Desharnais, if at the end he cant put points on scoreboard, hes not 2nd line player.
With the bad start of the season, JM does not have time to test anything, he goes with what he knows. And what he knows is DD produces and Eller does not.
And yes I agree, Eller is more talented than DD. Maybe next year. Eller will be ahead but not now.
A lot were not happy about Latendresse yet he was producing more than eller and was playing with Lapierre and kostopoulos without pp time.
I'm not sure how you can compare production when Desharnais sees more PP time than anyone else and Eller gets none. DD also preys on teams third lines and third pairings while Eller gets the tough shutdown assignments against other teams first and second lines.
Most poeple who says Eller is playing with lesser winger are saying in the Kostitsyn thread how he is a beast and a top 6 winger. Yet they both play together so its 1 or the other.
Sure while that may the case, the other winger he has been playing with is Moen. Plekanec and Desharnais have been playing both with two top 6 wingers. I'd expect them to produce more because of it.
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DD, last year in his rookie year, was at .50pts\game, while Eller this year, his 2nd season, is at .25pts\game. And DD was playing 3rd and 4th line last year.
Desharnais was also 24 and recieved regular PP time while Eller did not. 8 of DD 22 points last year were on the PP. Eller last year was also bounced around a lot playing very little minutes for the majority of the season. It wasn't until March where he solidified himself as the 3rd line center.
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Again, for the wingers excuse, Cole was going nowhere before playing with David. Same thing with Max. He produces more while playing with DD. So, how does the credit goes to them.
Max has been producing all season long even when he didn't play with DD. He had a 3 point night playing on a line with Plekanec. Cole started to produce more as Martin gave him more time in the top 6.
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Eller could be 3 times bigger and twice the skill as Desharnais, if at the end he cant put points on scoreboard, hes not 2nd line player.
That's a very shallow analysis. Desharnais gets put in a position to produce, he gets the softest match ups and is asked to play an offensive role. Eller has been asked to play a defensive role and gets significantly less minutes than DD. Eller has no PP and has only 3 less ES than DD with only one top 6 winger on his line.
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With the bad start of the season, JM does not have time to test anything, he goes with what he knows. And what he knows is DD produces and Eller does not.
I don't think it's about testing anything. I think it more has to do with the fact that Eller can be trusted in a 3rd line role while Desharnais cannot. To be productive, Desharnais needs to be put in an offensive role. Eller is more versatile and doesn't need to put in an offensive role to contribute to the team's success.
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A lot were not happy about Latendresse yet he was producing more than eller and was playing with Lapierre and kostopoulos without pp time.
The debate is not about Latendresse vs Eller, so it's a moot point. A lot of people weren't happy with Latendresse because he was lazy and didn't "deserve" an offensive position.
Desharnais and Pacman TOGETHER have been on the ice for 4 habs goals in last 2 games .
3 points for DD /4 Points for Pacman .
The way DD battled tonight on the first goal (got no asst), he should get alot of credit for the first goal.
The way Desharnais was setting up Cole tonight out front , DD was a puck pimp ,no question .
I really hope Pac and DD stay together the rest of the year.
P.S :it won't allow me to vote on the poll, it was clear this morning my votes for DD...
DD played another good game tonight and his line I must say keeps creating chances every shift. Now Jacques play Eller a little more and replace Gomez with Eller on the pp
Pacioretty and Cole seem to be the right players to play with Desharnais.
Desharnais and Pacioretty are best suited with one another. They ripped it up together in the AHL on the same line.
They we're both on pace to score near 100 points each as linemates.One of the most feared lines in the AHL.Why it took so long for Habs to reunite them ?beyond me .
Cole with the size ,is a good fit with those two .
Not completely sold on Desharnais as a center. Not saying he is a bad player but like some say give Eller or Plekanec the same 2 wingers and probably the same result's would have been there.
Pacioretty could produce with anyone and Cole just got it going not because he is playing with Desharnais but because he is using his speed way more than the first 6-7 games.
And at this point it's unfair to compare DD and Eller. Eller as far less experience than DD and as virtually 0 PP Time and it's pretty hard to produce with either Darcche, Gomez, Moen and Palushaj on the wing. Sure Moen as a lot of goals but he's no Cole or Pacioretty.
I don't trade either. not at this point partly cause it is too early to make the call as to who will be better in the long haul and we need them both right now. Its Gomez that needs to be traded.
I like Eller a lot but he's a bit overrated in this thread.
He has the tools but I'm not sure yet that he has the "instinct" or the "offence flair" to be a second line center in the NHL.
P.S. and congrats for the Lats bashing. I almost missed it. Sheesh.
I like Eller a lot but he's a bit overrated in this thread.
He has the tools but I'm not sure yet that he has the "instinct" or the "offence flair" to be a second line center in the NHL.
P.S. and congrats for the Lats bashing. I almost missed it. Sheesh.
I didn't bash Latendresse, I said people were unhappy with him because they thought he was a lazy player to respond to a poster who said people hated Latendresse because he couldn't produce. These were not my views, but what people felt at the time.
Also it's hard to show your offensive flair when you get 0 PP time and play with only 1 top 6 winger and a grinder. Look at how many points Plekanec has gotten since playing with Moen and Gionta(top 6 winger and a grinder). In the last 4 games only one center has played with two top 6 wingers and that has been DD and surprise surprise, he's been producing in those last 4 games.
I don't hate DD at all, that's why I don't like this thread because it sounds like I do, but I don't I just don't think it's fair to compare the two since one is put in an offensive position on the team and the other is not.
Make the comparison when Eller gets the second most ice-time in forwards, gets to play with two top 6 wingers and gets the most PP time. Right now I think Eller is better because he has shown a lot more overall despite getting much less opportunities to show what he is made of.
I didn't bash Latendresse, I said people were unhappy with him because they thought he was a lazy player to respond to a poster who said people hated Latendresse because he couldn't produce. These were not my views, but what people felt at the time.
Make the comparison when Eller gets the second most ice-time in forwards, gets to play with two top 6 wingers and gets the most PP time. Right now I think Eller is better because he has shown a lot more overall despite getting much less opportunities to show what he is made of.
Really ? When ? How so ?
That's a bold statement.
It's one thing to think that Eller has the best potential or the best "tools" to succeed but it's another to think he has shown us more than DD right now.
BTW I'll give you that right now Eller has not the wingers to make him justice but eventually A.Kost will return and he will probably get more ice time.
