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Old
11-15-2011, 12:33 AM
  #76
Myllz
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Good: Weber tied Regehr for the team lead in blocked shots with four.
He was second in hits with six (Gaustad had seven).

Ugly: Weber had six times the amount of hits Gragnani has had in his 16 games this season (a whopping one) in this game alone.
I've never seen someone as afraid of contact as MAG is. There are guys like Ehrhoff who don't hit and typically don't get involved physically, but he'll at least shove people in corners and bump them off pucks. MAG's defense is purely with his stick. Even in corners and along the boards he'll try and use his stick more than body positioning. I can't count the amount of times I've watched him in perfect position to lay into someone with a hip check and he just won't do it.

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11-15-2011, 12:52 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
I've never seen someone as afraid of contact as MAG is. There are guys like Ehrhoff who don't hit and typically don't get involved physically, but he'll at least shove people in corners and bump them off pucks. MAG's defense is purely with his stick. Even in corners and along the boards he'll try and use his stick more than body positioning. I can't count the amount of times I've watched him in perfect position to lay into someone with a hip check and he just won't do it.
Its interesting with MAG because he is so capable of moving the puck out of the zone that he often does so before contact. I actually think that he has a better chance at growing with his defensive game then with his offensive. He could actually learn a lot from myers transformation in the defensive zone. For a transition player such as MAG, i am just reminded of how Zhitnik would get involved with a hit along the boards. who certainly isn't as big as MAG.

Zhitnik was a favorite of mine.


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Old
11-15-2011, 02:14 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ImpressedDAHagent View Post
Its interesting with MAG because he is so capable of moving the puck out of the zone that he often does so before contact. I actually think that he has a better chance at growing with his defensive game then with his offensive. He could actually learn a lot from myers transformation in the defensive zone. For a transition player such as MAG, i am just reminded of how Zhitnik would get involved with a hit along the boards. who certainly isn't as big as MAG.

Zhitnik was a favorite of mine.
They are completely different players...

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11-15-2011, 02:41 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
I've never seen someone as afraid of contact as MAG is. There are guys like Ehrhoff who don't hit and typically don't get involved physically, but he'll at least shove people in corners and bump them off pucks. MAG's defense is purely with his stick. Even in corners and along the boards he'll try and use his stick more than body positioning. I can't count the amount of times I've watched him in perfect position to lay into someone with a hip check and he just won't do it.
Yeah, I don't think I have seen someone as afraid to hit as him either.
He literally didn't record his first hit until the season was over a month old (started on 10/7, recorded his first hit 11/8 vs. WIN), which just seems hilariously impossible to me.
It's not really his game, but how do you go 12 games without recording a single hit?
He logged 194:21 of ice time before recording his first hit 23 seconds into his first shift of the game vs. WIN at 18:10 of the 1st period.

I remember he had a guy lined up a few games ago (I think one of the Ottawa games?) and it looked like he laid a hit at first, but after seeing it a second time, the player just fell on his own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImpressedDAHagent View Post
Its interesting with MAG because he is so capable of moving the puck out of the zone that he often does so before contact. I actually think that he has a better chance at growing with his defensive game then with his offensive. He could actually learn a lot from myers transformation in the defensive zone. For a transition player such as MAG, i am just reminded of how Zhitnik would get involved with a hit along the boards. who certainly isn't as big as MAG.

Zhitnik was a favorite of mine.
I'm too young to remember how often Zhitnik hit or when he chose to, but I feel like even daring to compare Gragnani to Zhitnik in any way is an insult to Alexei.
Even in his last season in the NHL, Zhitnik had 67 hits in 65 games.
Gragnani is on pace for five hits if he plays in all of the remaining 65 games.
Five hits in 81 games; just let that sink in.

You'd be hard pressed to find a single NHL player that is softer.
There are forwards who have played a number of games that have low numbers (Bergfors with zero, Condra and Kruger with one, Tavares and Wellwood with two), but the majority of forwards are going to have have lower numbers than defensemen because many forwards are not expected to contribute physically.
However, it is expected that defensemen will hit occasionally to remove the puck from the opposing player, even if they are a puck mover.

Take a moment and try to think of a defenseman with a reputation of being soft.
Tomas Kaberle fits the bill, and is perhaps one of the softest in the whole league.
Even he has three hits this season, which puts him on pace for 13.
He had 37 last season, so he'll probably pick it up a bit.
He's at least capable of blocking shots though, something Gragnani seemingly cannot do either.

While his six points in 16 games puts him on pace for 30 points, the rest of his stats are putrid and not close to what he did last season after his call up.
Maybe last season he looked like a player that somewhat resembled Zhitnik, but this season he looks like a utility defenseman at best.

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Old
11-15-2011, 03:43 AM
  #80
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G-We won
B- Lucic not getting suspended.
U-1st Sabres game i had to miss this season

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11-15-2011, 03:59 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Take a moment and try to think of a defenseman with a reputation of being soft.
Tomas Kaberle fits the bill, and is perhaps one of the softest in the whole league.
Even he has three hits this season, which puts him on pace for 13.
He had 37 last season, so he'll probably pick it up a bit.
He's at least capable of blocking shots though, something Gragnani seemingly cannot do either.
There wasn't one d-man last season that had more than 50 GP and less than 10 hits. Not one. Grags might be able to accomplish that.

The "most non-physical" d-men in terms of hits last season that played 50 or more games:
Huskins - 18 hits in 50 GP
Babchuk - 19 in 82
Kuba - 23 in 64
Campbell - 28 in 65

Btw Gragnani had 6 hits in 9 GP last season. Even though that stat isn't measured the most objective way, it's still mind-boggling how unphysical he's been.

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11-15-2011, 03:59 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
\

I'm too young to remember how often Zhitnik hit or when he chose to, but I feel like even daring to compare Gragnani to Zhitnik in any way is an insult to Alexei.
Even in his last season in the NHL, Zhitnik had 67 hits in 65 games.
Gragnani is on pace for five hits if he plays in all of the remaining 65 games.
Five hits in 81 games; just let that sink in..
Zhitnik was as good at open ice checks as any defender not named Kronwall in the modern era. He certainly has his flaws (defensive zone coverage after a rush) but to compare him to Grags is laughable. In Zhitnik we had a defender who was not only gifted on the PP, but also one who would finish every check that came his way. MAG doesen't have the frame to be compared to 44, let alone the courage.

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11-15-2011, 07:21 AM
  #83
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I actually wasn't able to watch this game because I had other plans, but I watched the highlights.

Good:
The Letter Line
Enroth
1 of only 3 teams in the league with 11 wins so far

Bad:
Enroth's soft goal

Ugly:
Missing the game
Having to listen to Pierre during highlights


Last edited by jamers: 11-15-2011 at 07:45 AM.
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Old
11-15-2011, 08:58 AM
  #84
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Eh, he had a real clinker last week too. He has been laboring out there. If it isn't Myers, it's Gragnani. If it isn't Gragnani, it's Ehrhoff. If it isn't Ehrhoff, it's Sekera. And if it isn't Sekera, it's Leopold. Outside of the Jets game, Regehr's been it for solid play on the back end over the course of the season.
This is why depth is awesome. When you can roll good D-men 7-deep, you can compensate for any one or two of those guys not producing.

Regehr gets paid to be solid, and I love that about him. But he's also perhaps the most one-dimensional guy we have outside MAG, so as a seasoned vet I don't expect him to play that role anything but well.

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11-15-2011, 10:00 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
Zhitnik was as good at open ice checks as any defender not named Kronwall in the modern era. He certainly has his flaws (defensive zone coverage after a rush) but to compare him to Grags is laughable. In Zhitnik we had a defender who was not only gifted on the PP, but also one who would finish every check that came his way. MAG doesen't have the frame to be compared to 44, let alone the courage.
Not only that, Zhitnik was one competitive cuss who was both liberal with his stick and on at least one occassion went knee-on-knee with someone as payback for an elbow (that being Alexei Kovalev in the first Pens-Sabres game after Kovalev put Zhitnik out of the previous year's playoffs with an elbow causing a concussion). Kovalev missed 13 games due to it and it was clear payback.

I wonder what happened to Gragnani. There is nothing to his body position to even be in the right place as an obstacle. He had a great hit in a game in Phoenix a few years ago (first recall) and it looked like he might actually have a clue that defense has to come first. Right now, his complete lack of contact makes him the posterboy for what is wrong with this team.

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11-15-2011, 10:11 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Not only that, Zhitnik was one competitive cuss who was both liberal with his stick and on at least one occassion went knee-on-knee with someone as payback for an elbow (that being Alexei Kovalev in the first Pens-Sabres game after Kovalev put Zhitnik out of the previous year's playoffs with an elbow causing a concussion). Kovalev missed 13 games due to it and it was clear payback.

I wonder what happened to Gragnani. There is nothing to his body position to even be in the right place as an obstacle. He had a great hit in a game in Phoenix a few years ago (first recall) and it looked like he might actually have a clue that defense has to come first. Right now, his complete lack of contact makes him the posterboy for what is wrong with this team.
There is such a focus on him being the focal point of the powerplay and making a good pass that I think it dominates his thought process. It's the only reason he's still in the starting lineup and I think he knows it. It's almost like he's three steps ahead (in a bad way) thinking about offense when he should be focusing on D.


Myers/Regehr
Leopold/Ehroff
Sekera/Weber


Please.

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11-15-2011, 10:15 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by HarryNealesGarden View Post
This is why depth is awesome. When you can roll good D-men 7-deep, you can compensate for any one or two of those guys not producing.

Regehr gets paid to be solid, and I love that about him. But he's also perhaps the most one-dimensional guy we have outside MAG, so as a seasoned vet I don't expect him to play that role anything but well.
His game is exactly what I want out of a defenseman. He plays defense first and in a style that is going to make it damned hard on his opponents to score.

And yet, he often makes smart decisions with the puck in the offensive zone because he's playing a simple game. If there is no play to the net, he lays it down into the corner. He uses his body to hold the zone. And just as a point of order, he has 2 fewer shots on goal than Gragnani in one more game played. Sit with that for a moment -- Robyn Regehr has 2 fewer shots than the everyday pointman on the Sabres #1 powerplay unit.

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11-15-2011, 10:41 AM
  #88
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His game is exactly what I want out of a defenseman. He plays defense first and in a style that is going to make it damned hard on his opponents to score.

And yet, he often makes smart decisions with the puck in the offensive zone because he's playing a simple game. If there is no play to the net, he lays it down into the corner. He uses his body to hold the zone. And just as a point of order, he has 2 fewer shots on goal than Gragnani in one more game played. Sit with that for a moment -- Robyn Regehr has 2 fewer shots than the everyday pointman on the Sabres #1 powerplay unit.
Exactly! I've watched Regehr hold the point in the offensive zone, and he does a decent job. Yeah he's not going to put up 20 goals, but he does a great job at keeping the pressure on.

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11-15-2011, 10:44 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
His game is exactly what I want out of a defenseman. He plays defense first and in a style that is going to make it damned hard on his opponents to score.

And yet, he often makes smart decisions with the puck in the offensive zone because he's playing a simple game. If there is no play to the net, he lays it down into the corner. He uses his body to hold the zone. And just as a point of order, he has 2 fewer shots on goal than Gragnani in one more game played. Sit with that for a moment -- Robyn Regehr has 2 fewer shots than the everyday pointman on the Sabres #1 powerplay unit.
He epitomizes "simplicity" on the back end. If he has nothing, it's off the glass and out. If he comes around from behind the net to break out and sees his winger on the hash, it's a tape-to-tape pass, not a wrap around the boards. If he's going to retrieve the puck on the forecheck, he's looking over his shoulder in both directions to find the oncoming forecheckers AND see where his wingers will be. If he has to take a hit to make a play and get the puck to where it needs to go, HE DOES IT.

Little things like that that expedite the breakout process and make up-ice transition that much easier.

And we know what he brings in front of the net, in the corners, and when play is stuck in our zone for a while.

I love him.

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11-15-2011, 10:53 AM
  #90
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Regehr has been everything I was hoping for and more.

It's been noted several times but he is an absolute rock in the defensive zone, times his pinches incredibly well, and is extremely smart with the puck. What else could you possibly want? It's been a long time since we've seen a defenseman play as mistake free as he does.

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11-15-2011, 10:58 AM
  #91
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Regehr has been everything I was hoping for and more.

It's been noted several times but he is an absolute rock in the defensive zone, times his pinches incredibly well, and is extremely smart with the puck. What else could you possibly want? It's been a long time since we've seen a defenseman play as mistake free as he does.
It would be something if someone, anyone, else on the roster could emulate Robyn's play to the point of being as consistent in their own zone. They don't have to invent their own Tunnel, just make the safe, often simple play time after time after time.

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11-15-2011, 11:01 AM
  #92
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It would be something if someone, anyone, else on the roster could emulate Robyn's play to the point of being as consistent in their own zone. They don't have to invent their own Tunnel, just make the safe, often simple play time after time after time.
Aside from a few bad games, Sekera seems to be doing the right stuff insofar as that's concerned. Granted I wasn't able to watch last night's game, but I've been pretty high on him overall.

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11-15-2011, 11:04 AM
  #93
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Aside from a few bad games, Sekera seems to be doing the right stuff insofar as that's concerned. Granted I wasn't able to watch last night's game, but I've been pretty high on him overall.
Sekera's still fancy with some of the stuff he does. He made a between the legs pass from below the goal line last night to clear the puck. He gets away with it more often than not so it's tough to fault him for it, but he could use a few more of the safe plays that Regehr has in his playbook.

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11-15-2011, 11:44 AM
  #94
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11-15-2011, 11:45 AM
  #95
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Come on, Pat. We all know your have your reputation to consider, but that baby is just way too big for one person.

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11-15-2011, 11:46 AM
  #96
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11-15-2011, 11:46 AM
  #97
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11-15-2011, 11:55 AM
  #98
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Sekera's still fancy with some of the stuff he does. He made a between the legs pass from below the goal line last night to clear the puck. He gets away with it more often than not so it's tough to fault him for it, but he could use a few more of the safe plays that Regehr has in his playbook.
I remember that play. Weber botched the original d-to-d pass to Sekera. It handcuffed Sekera in the corner and I'll be honest, I thought the pass was a smart play given that there were no Habs in front of the net. Weber moved the puck up ice then.

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11-15-2011, 11:17 PM
  #99
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Not only that, Zhitnik was one competitive cuss who was both liberal with his stick and on at least one occassion went knee-on-knee with someone as payback for an elbow (that being Alexei Kovalev in the first Pens-Sabres game after Kovalev put Zhitnik out of the previous year's playoffs with an elbow causing a concussion). Kovalev missed 13 games due to it and it was clear payback.
Now I miss Zhitnik. I might have to dust off my Zhitnik jersey for a game!

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11-16-2011, 12:59 AM
  #100
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Aside from a few bad games, Sekera seems to be doing the right stuff insofar as that's concerned. Granted I wasn't able to watch last night's game, but I've been pretty high on him overall.
Agreed.

I'd say out of the 17 games so far, Sekera had a couple of "okay" games, 2 bad ones, and the rest very mostly good-to-very-good games.

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