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How long does Myers' benching last? (Update: Back in the lineup for 11/16)

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Old
11-15-2011, 03:46 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
OK? That doesn't make Gragnani "one of Buffalo's better D men," as the post I previously replied to states.
Right, but with all the you's and you're's in your post I didn't know if you were grouping me in with French Connection or not.

Regardless I tried to clarify my point.

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Old
11-15-2011, 04:24 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
Well I should hope so, he has been one of Buffalo's better D men..
Gragnani has???

Regehr
Sekera
Leopold

All should be unquestionably ahead of him.

Myers
Ehrhoff

are arguable since they've not had the starts you want

Weber

simply not enough games to judge yet

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Old
11-15-2011, 04:25 PM
  #28
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I see him sitting for a bit. He needs to get his head on straight.

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11-15-2011, 04:25 PM
  #29
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So what did you guys think of Weber? I thought he played good, obviously he would want to have that second goal back, but you can't really blame him. Bouncing puck and his effort was there the whole time.

Can't believe I'm saying this but Gragnani has played a little better. He's still making stupid plays but he hasn't been as bad as he was 3-4 games ago. He's still awful on the PP though, wtf are you thinking Lindy?

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11-15-2011, 04:45 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
So what did you guys think of Weber? I thought he played good, obviously he would want to have that second goal back, but you can't really blame him. Bouncing puck and his effort was there the whole time.

Can't believe I'm saying this but Gragnani has played a little better. He's still making stupid plays but he hasn't been as bad as he was 3-4 games ago. He's still awful on the PP though, wtf are you thinking Lindy?
If anyone would want that 2nd goal back, it's Enroth. Good game overall (not great), but that one had a serious stench on it. Tough to blame the defenseman when all the forward could do is get a touch on the bouncing puck.

Anyway, Myers may get back into the lineup Wednesday if McCormick's still sick. I don't see Buffalo calling up a forward for an illness, so a 11 F with 7 D lineup is definitely a possibility.

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Old
11-15-2011, 05:30 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
OK? That doesn't make Gragnani "one of Buffalo's better D men," as the post I previously replied to states.
IMHO it does. Gragnani is leading the D in both points and in plus/minus. When the Sabres are on the PP they will usually have MAG out on the ice and when the team is on the PK they will use Regehr. At even strength it could be a wash as evident by MAG's plus/minus. As indicated by the amount of time MAG is used it seems Lindy feels the same.

Having said that I do feel Regehr is the number one, but by the play of the rest MAG is #2.

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11-15-2011, 05:44 PM
  #32
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Gragnani's been fortunate that more of his mistakes haven't ended up in the back of the net. I only caught the first two periods last night, and he looked horrendous. The guy couldn't win a battle against the Habs forecheck and got turned inside out by Cole.

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Old
11-15-2011, 05:47 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
IMHO it does. Gragnani is leading the D in both points and in plus/minus. When the Sabres are on the PP they will usually have MAG out on the ice and when the team is on the PK they will use Regehr. At even strength it could be a wash as evident by MAG's plus/minus. As indicated by the amount of time MAG is used it seems Lindy feels the same.

Having said that I do feel Regehr is the number one, but by the play of the rest MAG is #2.
Do you watch the games or just look at the stat sheet. Gragnani is terrible defensively, I have no idea how he is a + right now because he absolutely does not deserve it. Must be out there everytime Vanek Pominville are...

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Old
11-15-2011, 05:57 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
IMHO it does. Gragnani is leading the D in both points and in plus/minus. When the Sabres are on the PP they will usually have MAG out on the ice and when the team is on the PK they will use Regehr. At even strength it could be a wash as evident by MAG's plus/minus. As indicated by the amount of time MAG is used it seems Lindy feels the same.

Having said that I do feel Regehr is the number one, but by the play of the rest MAG is #2.
Again I feel the need to post this: lol

You clearly haven't been watching the games at all. At best (that can be even argued), MAG has been our 4th best and when you consider the whole season, I feel he has to be 6th, and that's only because Weber hasn't played enough games. He's certainly not been better than Ehrhoff in my book and not Myers either.

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Old
11-15-2011, 06:06 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
IMHO it does. Gragnani is leading the D in both points and in plus/minus. When the Sabres are on the PP they will usually have MAG out on the ice and when the team is on the PK they will use Regehr. At even strength it could be a wash as evident by MAG's plus/minus. As indicated by the amount of time MAG is used it seems Lindy feels the same.

Having said that I do feel Regehr is the number one, but by the play of the rest MAG is #2.


Gragnani has averaged the 7th most (=least) ES-TOI among d-men:
Ehrhoff - 18:19
Leopold - 16:50
Myers - 16:28
Sekera - 16:19
Regehr - 16:09
Weber - 14:12
Gragnani - 13:45

More than 2 minutes less than the next regular...

He's averaged the 7th most TOI:
Ehrhoff - 23:12
Myers - 22:06
Leopold - 20:34
Regehr - 19:24
Sekera - 18:00
Weber - 17:22
Gragnani - 16:52

He's faced the worst quality of competition:
Weber - 0.218
Regehr - 0.134
Myers - 0.105
Ehrhoff - 0.100
Leopold - 0.010
Sekera - 0.006
Gragnani - -0.052

He's gotten by far the most offensive zone starts:
Gragnani - 62.6%
Ehrhoff - 56.8%
Sekera - 53.8%
Leopold - 49.7%
Myers - 45.8%
Regehr - 42.3%
Weber - 27.3%

He's the definition of getting sheltered minutes...Calling him their #2 d-man is laughable at best.

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Old
11-15-2011, 06:06 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
IMHO it does. Gragnani is leading the D in both points and in plus/minus. When the Sabres are on the PP they will usually have MAG out on the ice and when the team is on the PK they will use Regehr. At even strength it could be a wash as evident by MAG's plus/minus. As indicated by the amount of time MAG is used it seems Lindy feels the same.

Having said that I do feel Regehr is the number one, but by the play of the rest MAG is #2.
Alright, let's break-down Grags ice time.

M.A. Gragnani: 16:52 TOI, 13:45 ES, 3:03 PP, 0:04 SH


Compare it to the rest of the d-men.


C. Ehrhoff: 23:12 TOI, 18:19 ES, 3:02 PP, 1:50 SH

T. Myers: 22:06 TOI, 16:28 ES, 2:51 PP, 2:59 SH

R. Regehr: 19:24 TOI, 16:09 ES, 0:03 PP, 3:11 SH

J. Leopold: 20:34 TOI, 16:50 ES, 1:30 PP, 2:13 SH

A. Sekera: 18:00 TOI, 16:19 ES, 0:18 PP, 1:21 SH

M. Weber: 17:22 TOI, 14:12 ES, 0:00 PP, 3:03 SH


The rest of the Sabres' defensemen get more or just slightly less ice time at ES than Grags does the whole game. Using plus-minus and points to make your argument for Grags is weak.

Weber's stats are skewed since he's only played in two games, but he played over 22 minutes last night and actually played more minutes at ES than Regehr. Grags hasn't even come close to sniffing those kind of minutes. Like Kishire, I too am wondering if you watch the games or just assume that he's playing well because he's a +5.

EDIT: It seems mgn beat me to the punch.

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Old
11-15-2011, 06:21 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post


Gragnani has averaged the 7th most (=least) ES-TOI among d-men:
Ehrhoff - 18:19
Leopold - 16:50
Myers - 16:28
Sekera - 16:19
Regehr - 16:09
Weber - 14:12
Gragnani - 13:45

More than 2 minutes less than the next regular...

He's averaged the 7th most TOI:
Ehrhoff - 23:12
Myers - 22:06
Leopold - 20:34
Regehr - 19:24
Sekera - 18:00
Weber - 17:22
Gragnani - 16:52

He's faced the worst quality of competition:
Weber - 0.218
Regehr - 0.134
Myers - 0.105
Ehrhoff - 0.100
Leopold - 0.010
Sekera - 0.006
Gragnani - -0.052

He's gotten by far the most offensive zone starts:
Gragnani - 62.6%
Ehrhoff - 56.8%
Sekera - 53.8%
Leopold - 49.7%
Myers - 45.8%
Regehr - 42.3%
Weber - 27.3%

He's the definition of getting sheltered minutes...Calling him their #2 d-man is laughable at best.
MAG led the team at the end of last year and he has carried it on to the beginning of this year. Like him or not, he "IS ONE OF THE BEST" on this team and Ruff feels the same way. Can you imagine how many points he would have if he played Myers's mins?

This hate on by some fans is getting to be funny. I feel people are deflecting their displeasure of other players his way which is totally unfair.

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Old
11-15-2011, 06:33 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
MAG led the team at the end of last year and he has carried it on to the beginning of this year. Like him or not, he "IS ONE OF THE BEST" on this team and Ruff feels the same way. Can you imagine how many points he would have if he played Myers's mins?

This hate on by some fans is getting to be funny. I feel people are deflecting their displeasure of other players his way which is totally unfair.
Did you just ignore everything I posted? How does Ruff giving him the easiest minutes tell you that he thinks he "is one of the best"? Playing more minutes against other team's top players does not mean more points. Playing minutes against mid-level competition while getting protected minutes should tell you more about how Ruff feels about his defensive capabilities.

As for your paranoia, I've hardly had an agenda against Gragnani, in fact I've criticized other posters for being too harsh and unfair about him in a GDT. That doesn't mean I feel that he's actually earned the spot over Weber for example. If he was playing better (and by better I don't mean a better +/-...WATCHING him play better...or do you think Gragnani, Sekera and Leopold are all better d-men than Regehr because they all have better +/-?) I'd be praising him more. I express what I see. Seems in this case you're the one who's offended that his favorite player is taking flak.

EDIT: And if you're pointing out last playoff's performance, then why would you take a shot at Myers? If anything Myers was the one playing against top competition and excelling at it. Though I admit (and have praised him often enough for that) Gragnani was playing very well.


Last edited by ct2111: 11-15-2011 at 06:44 PM.
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Old
11-15-2011, 06:35 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
MAG led the team at the end of last year and he has carried it on to the beginning of this year. Like him or not, he "IS ONE OF THE BEST" on this team and Ruff feels the same way. Can you imagine how many points he would have if he played Myers's mins?

This hate on by some fans is getting to be funny. I feel people are deflecting their displeasure of other players his way which is totally unfair.
I feel like you're allowing your fandom of MAG to cloud your objective judgement of the player, which is totally unfair.

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11-15-2011, 06:37 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
MAG led the team at the end of last year and he has carried it on to the beginning of this year. Like him or not, he "IS ONE OF THE BEST" on this team and Ruff feels the same way. Can you imagine how many points he would have if he played Myers's mins?

This hate on by some fans is getting to be funny. I feel people are deflecting their displeasure of other players his way which is totally unfair.
It's got nothing to do with hating on him. He hasn't been that good on the PP and he's a liability at even-strength, hence his low ice time numbers. If Grags played similar minutes to Myers, he would be eaten alive.

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Old
11-15-2011, 07:20 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
MAG led the team at the end of last year and he has carried it on to the beginning of this year. Like him or not, he "IS ONE OF THE BEST" on this team and Ruff feels the same way. Can you imagine how many points he would have if he played Myers's mins?

This hate on by some fans is getting to be funny. I feel people are deflecting their displeasure of other players his way which is totally unfair.
PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION HAVE YOU WATCHED A SINGLE GAME THIS YEAR? LOL...

That comment is simply utterly ridiculous. I think this guy is trolling us.

Led the team? Are you joking? How about Thomas Vanek, Tyler Myers, Drew Stafford, Tyler Ennis, Nathan Gerbe, Jhonas Enroth? MAG led the team, LMAO. Is that you Gragnani?


Last edited by Stop Winnin: 11-15-2011 at 07:27 PM.
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Old
11-15-2011, 08:54 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Ideally, Myers in on Wednesday and MAG out. I think Myers is back in on Wednesday regardless of who comes out for him, but I could see Ruff benching Weber again.
I hope not, Weber looked solid in the 2/3 of the game that I saw.

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11-15-2011, 08:59 PM
  #43
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I bet he's back in Wednesday, but after the way he fought through the last few games, I'd like him to sit out 3. Get some good practice in, really put the fear of god into him.

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11-15-2011, 09:41 PM
  #44
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IMO, you can't put Myers out there, and if he has a bad game or two, immediately sit him again.

I think, for a correct message to be sent, sit him for at least one more game and maybe through the weekend if the Sabres d-men play well.

When you put him back in, he stays in. This isn't the type of player you play games with. I agree with him being sat, but you can't play games and make it a night to night thing once he's back in.

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11-15-2011, 10:31 PM
  #45
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I thought weber played a good game on Monday ideally he stays in the lineup. Grags goes into the corner and poke checks his man rather than hitting game after game, it gets realllllly annoying but somehow he finds his way in the lineup night after night

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11-15-2011, 11:10 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
IMHO it does. Gragnani is leading the D in both points and in plus/minus. When the Sabres are on the PP they will usually have MAG out on the ice and when the team is on the PK they will use Regehr. At even strength it could be a wash as evident by MAG's plus/minus. As indicated by the amount of time MAG is used it seems Lindy feels the same.

Having said that I do feel Regehr is the number one, but by the play of the rest MAG is #2.
Gragnani is 2nd in points with 6.

Gragnani is not the #2 defenseman from any objectionable view.

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Old
11-16-2011, 12:04 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post


Gragnani has averaged the 7th most (=least) ES-TOI among d-men:
Ehrhoff - 18:19
Leopold - 16:50
Myers - 16:28
Sekera - 16:19
Regehr - 16:09
Weber - 14:12
Gragnani - 13:45

More than 2 minutes less than the next regular...

He's averaged the 7th most TOI:
Ehrhoff - 23:12
Myers - 22:06
Leopold - 20:34
Regehr - 19:24
Sekera - 18:00
Weber - 17:22
Gragnani - 16:52

He's faced the worst quality of competition:
Weber - 0.218
Regehr - 0.134
Myers - 0.105
Ehrhoff - 0.100
Leopold - 0.010
Sekera - 0.006
Gragnani - -0.052

He's gotten by far the most offensive zone starts:
Gragnani - 62.6%
Ehrhoff - 56.8%
Sekera - 53.8%
Leopold - 49.7%
Myers - 45.8%
Regehr - 42.3%
Weber - 27.3%

He's the definition of getting sheltered minutes...Calling him their #2 d-man is laughable at best.
I just have to laugh at this.

Hey, at least Grags finally registered a hit!

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Old
11-16-2011, 12:41 AM
  #48
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God I hope the real Myers comes back soon, can't handle anymore Myers for crap on the trade board.

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Old
11-16-2011, 12:56 AM
  #49
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I feel like you're allowing your fandom of MAG to cloud your objective judgement of the player, which is totally unfair.
He rejects reality and inserts his own

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Old
11-16-2011, 01:16 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by French Connection View Post
MAG led the team at the end of last year and he has carried it on to the beginning of this year. Like him or not, he "IS ONE OF THE BEST" on this team and Ruff feels the same way. Can you imagine how many points he would have if he played Myers's mins?
Are you just trolling us?

Seriously...

Grags is playing sheltered minutes, can't be relied on defensively, and although he doesn't hurt the team in that role, most feel his role on the PP isn't good enough to warrant a place over Weber.

IMO, sooner rather than later, you'll see MAG as the #7 on this team.

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