HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Leafs offered 2nd+player for Franson

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-16-2011, 08:49 AM
  #51
Nizdizzle
Salary cap? Huh?
 
Nizdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,085
vCash: 500
lmao @ all the armchair GM's telling Burke how much Franson is worth. How many times do you all have to be wrong until you realise you have zero idea about NHL player values.

Nizdizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 08:50 AM
  #52
HockeyGuruPitka
Registered User
 
HockeyGuruPitka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
The Oilers have Anaheim's 2012 2nd rounder.

If Burke turned down anything other than a salary dump + a 2nd for Franson, he's nuts. It's not like his value is going to go up sitting in the press box.

My guess is that it was Omark and Anaheim's 2nd.

Ah thankyou. My theory is incorrect! i guess i just really want Smith-Pelley

HockeyGuruPitka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 08:51 AM
  #53
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,752
vCash: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Carmoni View Post
Could this be a play to increase Franson's value?

Dreger is a tool for the Leafs.
Dreger on Kaberle: "He'll not fetch more than a 2nd rounder and a B prospect at best"

Next day, headlines are: "Kaberle traded for Joe Colborne, first round pick, and a 2nd round pick"

Yeah, he's a tool for the Leafs.

Pi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 08:54 AM
  #54
Tarpit*
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cold North
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
The Oilers have Anaheim's 2012 2nd rounder.

If Burke turned down anything other than a salary dump + a 2nd for Franson, he's nuts. It's not like his value is going to go up sitting in the press box.

My guess is that it was Omark and Anaheim's 2nd.
I can't see the Oilers doing this, it places them into a jam once the injured D come back. As much I would like to see the Oilers trade Omark, the thought of trading for a soft D like Franson gives me nightmares.

The same people that are talking about the Oilers needing a D, were the same one talking about it at the beginning of the season. The Oilers are still rebuilding and theirs no reason to do something stupid like this.

Tarpit* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 08:56 AM
  #55
s7ark
Registered User
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,208
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Ah thankyou. My theory is incorrect! i guess i just really want Smith-Pelley
Nope. I double checked and I was wrong. We got their 2013 2nd rounder for Cogliano. Anaheim still has their 2nd this year afaik. My bad.

And I understand why you'd want Smith-Pelley. I want him too.

s7ark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 08:57 AM
  #56
John-Eric Iannicello
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Right now Franson's value is almost entirely based on his play in Nashville. The longer he sits in the press box, the more people will forget about what he did there and start asking what he isn't doing now to push his way onto the leafs.

Sure they can keep him for backup, but then they are neglecting their other needs. I do agree that nuts wasn't the right word. I just think he could also use his depth to help his injury problems up front.

I also find it funny how he's trying to use the media, in typical Burkian fashion, to negotiate a bigger return. He's the king of playing the media like a fiddle.
I don't think people will forget, I think some teams see a big defenseman with potential to contribute in a bottom-four role. Potential is there for sure, hasn't been given enough of a look because they have better offensive options currently. Liles has been strong, Phaneuf was huge out of the gate, and Gardiner is one of our better skating defenders and has displayed veteran poise.

As funny as it sounds, the Leafs defense hasn't been that bad this year - I'd argue it's been a bright spot. So when I hear people say 'LOL He can't even crack the Leafs D!' that doesn't say much because I've found the unit in general to have played strong. Liles, Gardiner, Phaneuf, and Gunnarsson have been strong all year. Komisarek and Schenn have both turned it on huge since they've been scratched. I think there's lack of defensive commitment for a lot of the forwards, and the goaltending has been inconsistent when Reimer went down.

Even with the injuries on forward the Leafs have Nazem Kadri waiting for a crack at the top-six (Colborne too, but he's been injured), and have Orr and Rosehill as extra's currently. Connolly is playing on Thursday so he's coming off the IR .. for now at least. Depending on the seriousness of MacArthur/Grabovski it may push for a spot to fill - but I still think they want to wait and see how others can fill their spots first.

__________________
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/JE_Iannicello
John-Eric Iannicello is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:00 AM
  #57
IcedCapp
You're wrong. :(
 
IcedCapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,395
vCash: 500
I think Franson's value is based on the fact that he's a) Big b) Young c) Cheap d) Cost controlled e) Offensive Minded Dman. LOLHeSucks all you want, but teams are always looking for those types of players.

IcedCapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:08 AM
  #58
bobbyflex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
lmao @ all the armchair GM's telling Burke how much Franson is worth. How many times do you all have to be wrong until you realise you have zero idea about NHL player values.
careful. u never know who that "roster player" was. Could've been a salary dump with negative value.

in which case:
3rd round pick > 2nd round pick + salary dump

bobbyflex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:12 AM
  #59
s7ark
Registered User
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,208
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-Eric Iannicello View Post
I don't think people will forget, I think some teams see a big defenseman with potential to contribute in a bottom-four role. Potential is there for sure, hasn't been given enough of a look because they have better offensive options currently. Liles has been strong, Phaneuf was huge out of the gate, and Gardiner is one of our better skating defenders and has displayed veteran poise.

As funny as it sounds, the Leafs defense hasn't been that bad this year - I'd argue it's been a bright spot. So when I hear people say 'LOL He can't even crack the Leafs D!' that doesn't say much because I've found the unit in general to have played strong. Liles, Gardiner, Phaneuf, and Gunnarsson have been strong all year. Komisarek and Schenn have both turned it on huge since they've been scratched. I think there's lack of defensive commitment for a lot of the forwards, and the goaltending has been inconsistent when Reimer went down.

Even with the injuries on forward the Leafs have Nazem Kadri waiting for a crack at the top-six (Colborne too, but he's been injured), and have Orr and Rosehill as extra's currently. Connolly is playing on Thursday so he's coming off the IR .. for now at least. Depending on the seriousness of MacArthur/Grabovski it may push for a spot to fill - but I still think they want to wait and see how others can fill their spots first.
I definitely disagree on the forgetting thing. Out of sight, out of mind is very real and the NHL has somewhat of a "what have you done for me lately" mentality. There is only so long a guy can not play before people start to ask why.

And I don't want to get into a big thing or start the D vs G debate, but the leafs are 4 worst in the league for GA. So it's not like they have been lights out in their own zone. It is reasonable to ask why Franson couldn't beat out a rookie like Gardiner or a vet starting to show his age like Komi on your D.

I agree that Burke doesn't need to do anything, I'm just surprised that he values excessive depth on D(top 6 + Franson, Aulie, Lashoff, Finger, etc.) over spreading the depth out over all 3 positions.

s7ark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:13 AM
  #60
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
careful. u never know who that "roster player" was. Could've been a salary dump with negative value.

in which case:
3rd round pick > 2nd round pick + salary dump
salary dump on a team with no cap space? that's one hell of a stupid gm.

maybe it could be the oilers after all.

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:13 AM
  #61
MoreMogilny
Cap'n
 
MoreMogilny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oshawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,719
vCash: 500
I'd tend to think it would be a 2nd and a cap dump of sorts.

How much could Franson really bring in?

__________________
MoreMogilny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:14 AM
  #62
SpezDispenser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 13,545
vCash: 500
If Burke could get a 2nd for Franson, it would be done, the player coming back to the Leafs must be a horrible cap hit/player.

SpezDispenser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:16 AM
  #63
calcal798
Registered User
 
calcal798's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
I find this hard to believe, I'd take this deal and run. We have some guys on the farm who could fill in that role, the guy who sits in the press box, just fine. Holzer could easily replace the non-existent Franson.
Burke could be trying to package Franson for another player.

calcal798 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:17 AM
  #64
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
franson could be worth more than a 2nd.

there are teams with struggling blueline already and it's only a 1/4 into the season. injury is a fickle *****. defensemen's value always goes up halfway into the season.

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:17 AM
  #65
Andre Benoit Bawls
Classless Chaps
 
Andre Benoit Bawls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,603
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
The unnamed team was nuts to offer that for Franson, and Toronto nuts to refuse (regardless of the player offered) if true.
Not really. If its a bad player they dont want at all, or a bad contract they dont want at all. If thats the case, I'm guessing Burke is just holding out for a 2nd rounder. Maybe a higher 2nd. Who knows. I doubt the player on top was an elite guy.

Andre Benoit Bawls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:18 AM
  #66
TML g u n n e R s*
EDC 2013
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Air Canada Center
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,011
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Yahoo to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Skype™ to TML g u n n e R s*
its funny because people say we overvalue our players in terms of trade value, but when the deal is done the value is there.

TML g u n n e R s* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:20 AM
  #67
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
its funny because people say we overvalue our players in terms of trade value, but when the deal is done the value is there.
franson's value already went up. the HF consensus before all this is that he's worth a 3rd rounder at the most.

there's more than one team out there who could use franson.

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:24 AM
  #68
HSF
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,109
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
franson's value already went up. the HF consensus before all this is that he's worth a 3rd rounder at the most.

there's more than one team out there who could use franson.
a 3rd rounder >> 2nd + salary dump

it is hard to say anything about this deal without knowing the player

HSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:25 AM
  #69
TML g u n n e R s*
EDC 2013
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Air Canada Center
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,011
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Yahoo to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Skype™ to TML g u n n e R s*
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSF View Post
a 3rd rounder >> 2nd + salary dump

it is hard to say anything about this deal without knowing the player
no one said it was a salary dumb.. and lupul has turned out really well for us.

TML g u n n e R s* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:26 AM
  #70
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSF View Post
a 3rd rounder >> 2nd + salary dump

it is hard to say anything about this deal without knowing the player
you're the only one making assumptions about the player.

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:28 AM
  #71
John-Eric Iannicello
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I definitely disagree on the forgetting thing. Out of sight, out of mind is very real and the NHL has somewhat of a "what have you done for me lately" mentality. There is only so long a guy can not play before people start to ask why.

And I don't want to get into a big thing or start the D vs G debate, but the leafs are 4 worst in the league for GA. So it's not like they have been lights out in their own zone. It is reasonable to ask why Franson couldn't beat out a rookie like Gardiner or a vet starting to show his age like Komi on your D.

I agree that Burke doesn't need to do anything, I'm just surprised that he values excessive depth on D(top 6 + Franson, Aulie, Lashoff, Finger, etc.) over spreading the depth out over all 3 positions.
I'll concede that it's a what have you done for me lately league. But I don't think you've watched enough of the Leafs this season to make a case for Franson. Gardiner has been great and brings a different dynamic to the team. Komisarek has been very strong this season - he was bad when he started here, but this year he's been one of the more dependable defenders. You could say that Franson should have played in favour of Schenn, but Schenn has come on very strong of late and shouldn't be moved out of the lineup.

There isn't an argument for the D vs. G - goaltending has been a huge hole for the team. I'm not saying the D hasn't been without it's fault (they certainly aren't perfect - no team is), but the goaltending is a huge issue. They haven't even received average goaltending without Reimer, and the team plays with 0 faith in front of Gustavsson. When Reimer is in net, they are a different team and that's because the goaltending have been above average.

John-Eric Iannicello is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:28 AM
  #72
Halifaxhab
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
The unnamed team was nuts to offer that for Franson, and Toronto nuts to refuse (regardless of the player offered) if true.
agreed....so I would wager big money it was Montreal, cause the HABS have had to call up a so-so AHL dman to fill up the ranks. That, and why else would Toronto refuse to trade with that team?

Halifaxhab is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:30 AM
  #73
Squeeven
Registered User
 
Squeeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
The unnamed team was nuts to offer that for Franson, and Toronto nuts to refuse (regardless of the player offered) if true.
Even if this is true, who says BB refused it? Maybe they're just working out what player BB wants, who knows?

Squeeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:31 AM
  #74
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I definitely disagree on the forgetting thing. Out of sight, out of mind is very real and the NHL has somewhat of a "what have you done for me lately" mentality. There is only so long a guy can not play before people start to ask why.

And I don't want to get into a big thing or start the D vs G debate, but the leafs are 4 worst in the league for GA. So it's not like they have been lights out in their own zone. It is reasonable to ask why Franson couldn't beat out a rookie like Gardiner or a vet starting to show his age like Komi on your D.

I agree that Burke doesn't need to do anything, I'm just surprised that he values excessive depth on D(top 6 + Franson, Aulie, Lashoff, Finger, etc.) over spreading the depth out over all 3 positions.
I don't know if you've seen Gus play but he's quite brutal. Our goalies are always let in soft goals. The defense isn't great, I think its fine but it needs to be literally outstanding when you consider what's between the pipes.

Gardiner beat out Franson because of his mobility, he can get the puck out of the zone and he plays the left side (very important IMO). Leafs have 3 defensemens already playing the right side (Dion, Schenn, Komi). Franson played the left side when Gardiner sat and seemed to struggle with it a little bit. He couldn't beat out Komi because Komisarek (*gulp*) has played relatively well since his benching. I don't think he's played badly, he just hasn't stood out.

Franson will get his chance though. I imagine someone will sit for him tomorrow when he goes up against Nashville. No need to trade him now, Leafs need depth and the offers should get better as it gets closer to deadline and teams get more desperate.

Nasty Nazem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2011, 09:31 AM
  #75
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
agreed....so I would wager big money it was Montreal, cause the HABS have had to call up a so-so AHL dman to fill up the ranks. That, and why else would Toronto refuse to trade with that team?
because we can opt to keep franson?

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.