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Old
11-16-2011, 09:31 AM
  #1
GrimReeper
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Umberger-Carter-Nash

I want to express my extreme frustrations with this line. And I'm sure others will have their two cents as well:

The line collectively - This line is made up of our supposed 'Top Guns'. Yet they play two games together and look like they are complete strangers to one another. On paper, this should be a productive line. Unfortunatly, Matt Calvert plays bigger than all three of these guys. I can't stand watching some of our biggest 'power fowards' avoid contact so frequently. There is absolutely zero nastiness to any of them. If Umberger and Nash would just add the physicality element to their games it would make that line fun to watch. Instead they shy from contact and can't maintain any sort of forecheck. You are 3 of our captains and seem to have no urgency on the ice. Man up and get the team going, thats what leaders do. This team is broken not because of talent, because of lack of effort from our TOP players.

The players individually -

Carter - I can see his frustration in his face. I think he has gotten very unlucky in moments. But he is also lacking that fire that winners have. His 'floating' isn't as bad as people make it out to be. He just has an up right stance and long strides. I've noticed that he actually is very fast with an effortless skating technique which makes people believe he is floating. We brought him here to score goals, now do it.

Nash - I'm so sick of watching him try and beat an entire team himself. He will never be an elite forward if he doesn't learn how to use his line-mates. I think his constant lack of positioning results in confusion for whoever he plays with. Nash is a big boy and when he gets pissed you can see it, that is when he is his best and the team feeds from it. What sucks is that Nash doesn't seem to get pissed about losing, only about someone taking a cheap shot at him and him alone. If someone takes a cheap shot at a teammate, this guy doesn't care....nice captain.

Umberger -I'm not anywhere close to the let's trade Umby train but his pansyness is rubbing off on me. I think he is more concerned about his game streak than he his about his teammates. You are one of the biggest forwards on the ice but has played like a complete flower so far. Where has the gritty player gone? He is the biggest floater on the team anymore. I could overlook his production if he was still winning board battles and going into beast mode like he did his first year here. He is way too comfortable anymore. He needs to be a puck possession and front of the net banger like he once was. I can't believe how much he just skates away during a scrum or grabs the smallest player to hug and giggle with. I know he is tough and can take a hit - but why is he so afraid to dish it out? Again this is something a captain needs to do. I feel like the team doesn't feel like the captains have their backs. He is so fortunate that instead of being demoted to the press box he gets promoted to the top line. Now show some passion to make us believe you actually care about this franchise and not just yourself.

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11-16-2011, 10:15 AM
  #2
mt-svk
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Umberger had probably two good games and he is not HS or bench... I ask why? He does not belong to this line he belongs to the third line and with his achievments to the pressbox... .

I would like to see Nash with Johansen and Prospal, Carter with one of the couple Kubalik/Atkinson and... after the last game... Vermette.

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11-16-2011, 10:28 AM
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I want to see this line get at least one more game together to see what they can do. I believe it does take time to learn to play with one another, and I don't want to split up that second line.

But when my plan fails I'd like this to be plan "b":

Atkinson-Carter-Nash
Prospal-Letestu-Johanson
Umberger-Vermette-Boll (This could be an extremely effective shut-down line)
McKenzie-Pahlson-Calvert

Leaves us with Brassard, Dorsett, and Huselius in a couple weeks to think about. We have too many fowards, someone needs to go of: Brassard, Pahlson, Vermette. I'd prefer to keep Vermette of the 3.

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11-16-2011, 10:43 AM
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mt-svk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimReeper View Post
I want to see this line get at least one more game together to see what they can do. I believe it does take time to learn to play with one another, and I don't want to split up that second line.

But when my plan fails I'd like this to be plan "b":

Atkinson-Carter-Nash
Prospal-Letestu-Johanson
Umberger-Vermette-Boll (This could be an extremely effective shut-down line)
McKenzie-Pahlson-Calvert

Leaves us with Brassard, Dorsett, and Huselius in a couple weeks to think about. We have too many fowards, someone needs to go of: Brassard, Pahlson, Vermette. I'd prefer to keep Vermette of the 3.
I like your lines but I would change Boll with Kubalik, MacKenzie to a center and Boll to the fourth line, trade pahlsson too.

But I do not believe Arniel do not want to HS Umberger.... IMO Umberger has too strong position here stronger than Nash and even a coach in the locker room he must play inspite of his play.

If I am right it would be great to trade him because it is not good.

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11-16-2011, 10:50 AM
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It is mid November and they are out of the playoffs. They are looking at 65 more meaningless games and their contracts are guaranteed.

You try to get motivated for that. I have a heard time get motivated to use the remote to turn the game on.

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11-16-2011, 11:01 AM
  #6
mt-svk
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I would trade all our veterans except Nash, Carter, Wisniewski and probably Tyutin. We can lost with youngs we do not need vets for it.

Hah, when I wrote the last season and in the summer that Umberger is the third line player with little hockey sense... I heart different things... now we see his qualities.

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11-16-2011, 11:35 AM
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They need to get rid of some contracts. You can't have the fift biggest payroll cruise in on last place rest of the season. I would only hold Johanson as "untouchable" in any trades.

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Old
11-16-2011, 11:38 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
I would trade all our veterans except Nash, Carter, Wisniewski and probably Tyutin. We can lost with youngs we do not need vets for it.

Hah, when I wrote the last season and in the summer that Umberger is the third line player with little hockey sense... I heart different things... now we see his qualities.
Ugh here we go again. Umberger is better than a 3rd line player and has 'hockey sense'. Players go into slumps and it isn't easy to come out of one when your team is trying every desperate move possible. Trading all of the vets and keeping 3 is idiotic.

As far as being motivated for the next 65 games. It's not the dollars and cents that should keep them motivated. It's pride that should. I don't believe for a second that the overwhelming majority aren't bothered when they lose. I play in a meaningless league and get motivated quite easilly for my games with about 13 people in attendance. I think they have no problem getting motivated.

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11-16-2011, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
I would trade all our veterans except Nash, Carter, Wisniewski and probably Tyutin. We can lost with youngs we do not need vets for it.

Hah, when I wrote the last season and in the summer that Umberger is the third line player with little hockey sense... I heart different things... now we see his qualities.
Those "Umberger isn't a 3rd liner" people were still correct MT, as Umberger is actually a 4th liner.

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11-16-2011, 12:05 PM
  #10
mt-svk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimReeper View Post
Ugh here we go again. Umberger is better than a 3rd line player and has 'hockey sense'. Players go into slumps and it isn't easy to come out of one when your team is trying every desperate move possible. Trading all of the vets and keeping 3 is idiotic.

As far as being motivated for the next 65 games. It's not the dollars and cents that should keep them motivated. It's pride that should. I don't believe for a second that the overwhelming majority aren't bothered when they lose. I play in a meaningless league and get motivated quite easilly for my games with about 13 people in attendance. I think they have no problem getting motivated.
No he is not. And I do not say he do not have hockey sense but he do not have too much (for TOP 6 player). He was great in the front of the net but this year he is bad there. He is not a player to combination and he is not good (as alll our players almost there) on PK. He can play in the first line with two skill players to give tought there but he is not TOP 6 player.

The reason why he is untouchable even for a coach?

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11-16-2011, 12:07 PM
  #11
mt-svk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
Those "Umberger isn't a 3rd liner" people were still correct MT, as Umberger is actually a 4th liner.
I was wrong and you are right...

Seriously... I understand he has a bad time... I am angry only because players as Brassard, Johansen, Atkinson, Mayorov etc. are HS or go to AHL when he play not as a coach wants. And Umberger nothing... but something yes... he goes to the first line.

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11-16-2011, 12:21 PM
  #12
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What frustrates me about your definition of a top 6 player is your lack of inclusion of Power Forwards. There is a large necessity of a guy who can cycle the puck and go to the front of the net in the top 6. You are saying there is no spot in the top six for these type of players and there is. You typically can't just put the 3 most skilled players on a line and think it will work (there are exceptions of course). Umberger's skill set is different than Brassards. RJ is strong and able to get into areas of the ice that Derek is unable to.

Majority of RJ's goals for us have come from within 10 feet of the net. This is a skill that most players don't have, the ability to create space (or atleast maintain position) within a close proximity to the crease. Mike Knuble is a perfect comparison to RJ. This is a top 6 role that does not require a player to 'dangle' the puck. It contrast it actually just asks for the player to maintain posession and create space for the other players. 3 Daniel Briere's on a line would be horrible. Add a Scott Hartnell and Ville Leino and it put Briere in a situation to not have to do the dirty work but to do what he does best and you have a successful line (last year - Philly's best line).

There are different characteristics and different skills for the roles of players in the top 6.

And again this hockey sense bs you speak of. Is Umberger lacking hockey sense for not attempting to create plays that he is not capable of? I think he typically sticks to his bread and butter which is puck posession and grinding. Players playing within their abilities aren't lacking hockey sense. I'm not saying he isn't skilled. I'm saying he doesn't have the puck skills that some other players have. He has very good skills infront of the net and deflecting pucks. Positioning offensively and defensively.

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11-16-2011, 12:24 PM
  #13
mt-svk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimReeper View Post
What frustrates me about your definition of a top 6 player is your lack of inclusion of Power Forwards. There is a large necessity of a guy who can cycle the puck and go to the front of the net in the top 6. You are saying there is no spot in the top six for these type of players and there is. You typically can't just put the 3 most skilled players on a line and think it will work (there are exceptions of course). Umberger's skill set is different than Brassards. RJ is strong and able to get into areas of the ice that Derek is unable to.

Majority of RJ's goals for us have come from within 10 feet of the net. This is a skill that most players don't have, the ability to create space (or atleast maintain position) within a close proximity to the crease. Mike Knuble is a perfect comparison to RJ. This is a top 6 role that does not require a player to 'dangle' the puck. It contrast it actually just asks for the player to maintain posession and create space for the other players. 3 Daniel Briere's on a line would be horrible. Add a Scott Hartnell and Ville Leino and it put Briere in a situation to not have to do the dirty work but to do what he does best and you have a successful line (last year - Philly's best line).

There are different characteristics and different skills for the roles of players in the top 6.
I said that he is good to the skill players for this to the first line for example. But he does not make it now.

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11-16-2011, 12:46 PM
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pete goegan
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This line has been a total disappointment. Last night, Nash sent a perfect pass cross ice to Umberger and he completely Chimmered it. Nash doesn't get off clean, though, because Carter set him up perfectly, in front of the net, and the Captain Voraceked it. That may have been Carter's only good play of the night, though. Brassed, maybe?

I place most of the blame on RJ only because the other guys looked very dangerous with Prospal. Then, again, so do Test Tube and The Johan (rook gets credit and a tear wiped away, bb). Right now, I agree with mt-svk - Umby is no better than a third liner. Juice can't get back soon enough!


Last edited by pete goegan: 11-16-2011 at 01:00 PM.
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11-16-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
No he is not. And I do not say he do not have hockey sense but he do not have too much (for TOP 6 player). He was great in the front of the net but this year he is bad there. He is not a player to combination and he is not good (as alll our players almost there) on PK. He can play in the first line with two skill players to give tought there but he is not TOP 6 player.

The reason why he is untouchable even for a coach?
I have always held the belief that Umby's contributions fit best on the third line. While he can play top 6, he can excel on third line with scoring and checking.

This requires three things: one is we see the Umby of past; another is to not think a third line has to be made up of Pahlssons; and the third is to have enough other guys to fill out the top six. IMO that would be a sign of an improved team.

That said, it is sad to see his game now appearing only on the side of milk cartons.

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11-16-2011, 01:02 PM
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Yeah this line has been crap. Umberger just looks bad, Carter looks tired/injured still, and Nash is a combination of the two.

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11-16-2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
This line has been a total disappointment. Last night, Nash sent a perfect pass cross ice to Umberger and he completely Chimmered it. Nash doesn't get off clean, though, because Carter set him up perfectly, in front of the net, and the Captain Voraceked it. That may have been Carter's only good play of the night, though. Brassed, maybe?

I place most of the blame on RJ only because the other guys looked very dangerous with Prospal. Then, again, so do Test Tube and The Johan (rook gets credit and a tear wiped away, bb). Right now, I agree with mt-svk - Umby is no better than a third liner. Juice can't get back soon enough!
Pete I must say I like this side of you.

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11-16-2011, 01:05 PM
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Don't like a line just wait a game or two and Arneil will try to get something else to stick to the wall.

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11-16-2011, 01:46 PM
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Without reading the thread yet, here is my short feelings on the line. I think Umberger brings that line way down. He constantly mishandles passes and he doesn't appear to be fast enough to keep up with Nash and Carter. I can't believe that the coach still keeps Umberger on that line, oh wait, yes I can, the coach is a fricken moron and has zero adaptability.

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11-16-2011, 01:54 PM
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Umberger best game was with Pahlsson or in the line with MacKenzie and Calvert. And in 2008/09 year with Vermette but Vermette played in this time great not as this and last season. He could be good with Letestu too.

So my lines in another game:

Vermette--Carter--Nash
Prospal--Brassard--Johansen
Calvert--Letestu--Boll
MacKenzie--Pahlsson--Dorsett

lets Umby feels a new medecine for him!

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11-16-2011, 02:54 PM
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pete goegan
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Here's an interesting look at Nash from Matt Wagner at the Cannon:

http://www.jacketscannon.com/2011/11...ears-the-crown

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11-16-2011, 02:56 PM
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Pete I must say I like this side of you.
It's little known that I am a multi-faceted gem.


Very little known.

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11-16-2011, 03:29 PM
  #23
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This was posted on another site by a Wild fan:

"On Nash's post, they showed the replay on Wild TV a bunch of times, and Wild Defensemen Jared Spurgeon dives over Niklas Backstrom and deflects the puck ever so slightly into the post. Nash burried it, but Spurgeon made an amazing play."

I was at the game, so I didn't see a replay. Those who did, is the description above accurate? Was there more to the miss than I saw?

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11-16-2011, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
This was posted on another site by a Wild fan:

"On Nash's post, they showed the replay on Wild TV a bunch of times, and Wild Defensemen Jared Spurgeon dives over Niklas Backstrom and deflects the puck ever so slightly into the post. Nash burried it, but Spurgeon made an amazing play."

I was at the game, so I didn't see a replay. Those who did, is the description above accurate? Was there more to the miss than I saw?
Yes, that's accurate. If Spurgeon is a split second later in his dive, that's a goal.

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11-16-2011, 03:47 PM
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Id like to see RyJo on the line replacing Umberger.

It not like that will hurt his development anymore than going 3-13-1 would.

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