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Old
11-16-2011, 11:39 AM
  #26
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11-16-2011, 12:58 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
The problem last year was the inept goaltending due to Bob being heavily overplayed early in the season. Their record with and without Pronger was virtually identical. Had Lavi used his last change correctly vs Boston and not put Briere's line against Krejci's, anything could have happened.

You need to go back and re-check your box scores from last year. We killed the conference the 1st half of the year with Pronger in the lineup (remember we battling the Canucks for best record overall???) and the 2nd half of the year we were barely a 0.500 team without Pronger.

This team goes only as far as Chris Pronger can carry them. End of story, nothing eles matters. Yes, he IS that important to our team and our record last year with and without him should show everyone that he is by far the most valuable player to his own teams success and therefor HE should have won the Hart trophy.

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11-16-2011, 01:02 PM
  #28
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Seems fitting, in the off chance the OP is serious.

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Old
11-16-2011, 01:25 PM
  #29
BernieParent
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Pietrangelo would have to be coming back in any scenario of dealing Pronger. Maybe Pronger + 1st ('13) for Pietrangelo + 2nd ('12).

This seems to imply that I value Pietrangelo over Pronger, which would be wrong at this very moment. However, with the young grouping of forwards, a young, high-ceiling Dman like Pietrangelo to mature with them would be optimal to seriously challenging for the Cup in 3-4 years. Now, Pietrangelo will need to be resigned by then, but there should be enough budgetary space to sign him for a few years.

Mind you, I don't even know why the Blues would look to bring back Pronger, except for a windfall on jersey sales. They aren't built to win now.

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11-16-2011, 01:50 PM
  #30
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why did St. Louis trade Pronger in the first place?

I know that they needed to cut salary in order to fit under the newly appointed cap, but why would you move Pronger in order to do so? I know St. Louis was in rebuilding mode, so did they think moving him would be their best chance to get young pieces to build around or did he as to be traded? Demitra was let go as well. But I noticed they decided to hold onto players like Weight and Tkachuk, wo were good players, but players I wouldnt choose to hold onto over Pronger

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11-16-2011, 02:01 PM
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Hello, trollthread.
Yeah, I never forgave her for screwing up John's head and help break up the band.

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Old
11-16-2011, 02:50 PM
  #32
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OK you guys are looking at this all wrong. IF you trade Prongs, you need a DMan who is almost as good as Prongs (and at least 4-5 yrs younger) coming back. St Louis does not have anyone of that calibre, so you need a three way thing. Ie: take whatever piece St Louis offers you, and get rid of him. Use the capspace saved to get what you really want.

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Old
11-16-2011, 02:58 PM
  #33
Chris Pronger
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not sure if serious...

*insert picture with the joker or the guy from futurama*

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Old
11-16-2011, 06:08 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Pietrangelo would have to be coming back in any scenario of dealing Pronger. Maybe Pronger + 1st ('13) for Pietrangelo + 2nd ('12).

This seems to imply that I value Pietrangelo over Pronger, which would be wrong at this very moment. However, with the young grouping of forwards, a young, high-ceiling Dman like Pietrangelo to mature with them would be optimal to seriously challenging for the Cup in 3-4 years. Now, Pietrangelo will need to be resigned by then, but there should be enough budgetary space to sign him for a few years.

Mind you, I don't even know why the Blues would look to bring back Pronger, except for a windfall on jersey sales. They aren't built to win now.
I don't understand this point of view from our fans... we're 3-4 years away from "seriously challenging for the cup"?

We were the favorites last year according to everyone. We traded 2 all-stars away but got back 4 very good pieces. We then added a franchise goalie and Jagr who is giving us a PPG.

I don't get how we added an elite goalie and apparently added more offense (since we are leading the league in goals) to a team that was the favorites last year, but we're not serious contenders...

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Old
11-16-2011, 08:35 PM
  #35
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not sure if serious...

*insert picture with the joker or the guy from futurama*



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Old
11-16-2011, 08:37 PM
  #36
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This is just creepy.....

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11-16-2011, 08:45 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Pietrangelo would have to be coming back in any scenario of dealing Pronger. Maybe Pronger + 1st ('13) for Pietrangelo + 2nd ('12).

This seems to imply that I value Pietrangelo over Pronger, which would be wrong at this very moment. However, with the young grouping of forwards, a young, high-ceiling Dman like Pietrangelo to mature with them would be optimal to seriously challenging for the Cup in 3-4 years. Now, Pietrangelo will need to be resigned by then, but there should be enough budgetary space to sign him for a few years.

Mind you, I don't even know why the Blues would look to bring back Pronger, except for a windfall on jersey sales. They aren't built to win now.
St.Louis would never do that deal

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Old
11-16-2011, 08:59 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
You need to go back and re-check your box scores from last year. We killed the conference the 1st half of the year with Pronger in the lineup (remember we battling the Canucks for best record overall???) and the 2nd half of the year we were barely a 0.500 team without Pronger.

This team goes only as far as Chris Pronger can carry them. End of story, nothing eles matters. Yes, he IS that important to our team and our record last year with and without him should show everyone that he is by far the most valuable player to his own teams success and therefor HE should have won the Hart trophy.
No she's right. Very similar to the Penguins' excellent record without Crosby and Good record with him, the Flyers' record with Pronger SINCE HE'S BEEN HERE (not just last season) is slightly above .500. I guess it could be complacency, the idea that with Pronger back there, some of the other guys don't give it 100%, but when he's hurt...everyone knows they need to step up. Like the Leighton Syndrome (Leighton in = world class defensive play. Leighton out = meh)

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Old
11-16-2011, 09:02 PM
  #39
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They trade one captain and now people think it's a trend.

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Old
11-16-2011, 09:14 PM
  #40
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I bet people would trade Bryzgalov for an equal value of what Pronger is being asked for in this thread in a heart beat just because of his contract, and Bryz's contract is not even as bad as Pronger's.

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11-16-2011, 09:29 PM
  #41
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Pronger's contract is awful. The cap hit is great, but the length is just stupid. If he signed until he was 40, I'd be ok with it, but 42? c'mon Homer

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Old
11-16-2011, 09:36 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanVT395 View Post
St.Louis would never do that deal
I absolutely agree. Pronger is a win-now option, and I think only Milbury would actively take on his contract. Plus, Pietrangelo should be on their blue line (so to speak) for the next decade. Were I Holmgren and, for whatever reason, found myself talking with Doug Armstrong about Pronger, this is what I would propose. And expect to get turned down flat.

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Old
11-16-2011, 09:56 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I don't understand this point of view from our fans... we're 3-4 years away from "seriously challenging for the cup"?

We were the favorites last year according to everyone. We traded 2 all-stars away but got back 4 very good pieces. We then added a franchise goalie and Jagr who is giving us a PPG.

I don't get how we added an elite goalie and apparently added more offense (since we are leading the league in goals) to a team that was the favorites last year, but we're not serious contenders...
3-4 years is on the pessimistic side of probable, given my expected development of the young future leaders of this club. You're absolutely right about Bryzgalov, who should single-handedly be responsible for a good 5-7 games. But it's not just, though largely is, sending Richards and Carter away, as well as playoff performer extraordinaire 2 seasons ago Leino and, to a lesser extent, Powe. I could even argue that the 3rd D pairing took a medium-sized step down with Lilja in place of O'Donnell.

Giroux has been outstanding, Jagr has shown flashes of his mulleted self, and the Flyers have played some good hockey. They also have shown anxiety-causing similarities in play with the past couple of years. The PP is better than last year, but they are still only at #11 with an 18.1% success rate. They continue to disappear for whole periods. And they are leaning heavily on a much younger line-up, and 2 top Dmen who are a year further into their 30s each. With the number of rookies on the current roster, some will invariably hit the wall.

I'm trying to be realistic about this roster's shot at the Cup, and I believe that the current forward talent needs 1-2 years of development to gel into something special, and firing on all cylinders. Take into account that the defensive corps will probably need some significant changes at that point, and the balance is precarious. So bump that another year or two to reload on D and, from where we stand at the moment, this is my best Nostradamus impersonation.

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Old
11-17-2011, 09:26 AM
  #44
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No.
Gumby FTW, and no thank you

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Old
11-17-2011, 02:19 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by YokoOno View Post
Alot of Blue fans are still sour over the Brewer/Pronger trade years ago, so I thought I'd throw out a proposal... counter offers will be entertained.

To Flyers:
Barrett Jackman
2012 Second Round Draft Pick

To Blues:
Chris Pronger


Four posts... My advice is don't make it five.

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Old
11-17-2011, 03:59 PM
  #46
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Dont laugh. I would consider a trade. I do NOT like Philly relying on an ageing Dman who is constantly injured. Big part of why Flyers did so badly in POs last year was Prong's absence.

Do you guys wanna endure that situation every year?

Obviously, if he goes a great Dman has to come back as a replaement. I wouldnt mind freeing up Pronger's capspace for a run at Weber or Suter. Either of those would make a great replacement for Mr Injury Pronger.

WHat good is a star DMan if he's injured all the time?
Besides second half of last season and the freak accident this season, when else has he been injured while a Flyer?

Nonetheless, trade him for Jackman and a pick that probably wouldn't even produce until Prongers contract is over anyway? No thanks! The only time you trade your captain is when the team either stinks or he becomes a leadership problem.

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Old
11-17-2011, 09:40 PM
  #47
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Besides second half of last season and the freak accident this season, when else has he been injured while a Flyer?
Dont worry he will be. His age and the way he has played all his career? Only a matter of time,

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Old
11-17-2011, 09:43 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
3-4 years is on the pessimistic side of probable, given my expected development of the young future leaders of this club. You're absolutely right about Bryzgalov, who should single-handedly be responsible for a good 5-7 games. But it's not just, though largely is, sending Richards and Carter away, as well as playoff performer extraordinaire 2 seasons ago Leino and, to a lesser extent, Powe. I could even argue that the 3rd D pairing took a medium-sized step down with Lilja in place of O'Donnell.

Giroux has been outstanding, Jagr has shown flashes of his mulleted self, and the Flyers have played some good hockey. They also have shown anxiety-causing similarities in play with the past couple of years. The PP is better than last year, but they are still only at #11 with an 18.1% success rate. They continue to disappear for whole periods. And they are leaning heavily on a much younger line-up, and 2 top Dmen who are a year further into their 30s each. With the number of rookies on the current roster, some will invariably hit the wall.

I'm trying to be realistic about this roster's shot at the Cup, and I believe that the current forward talent needs 1-2 years of development to gel into something special, and firing on all cylinders. Take into account that the defensive corps will probably need some significant changes at that point, and the balance is precarious. So bump that another year or two to reload on D and, from where we stand at the moment, this is my best Nostradamus impersonation.
If u wanna Cup the future is dark. By the time the forwards nature and hit their peak, Prongs and Timo will be older and tail off.

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Old
11-17-2011, 09:45 PM
  #49
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Only trade Pronger if we can get lucky like we did with the Carter/Richards deals and end up with 2 good young defensemen.




Which can/will not happen.

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