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Old
11-16-2005, 01:56 PM
  #26
GoneFullHextall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
Ok, so lets fault Pitkanen for some giveaways when the youngster is trying to build confidence in an offensive aspect. Hatcher gives the puck away in a non-harmful scenario. I don't give a hoot about Rathje's numbers. I've watched all the games and he is the one who has given the puck away the most when resulting in the other teams scoring. He is the one who would rather challenge for a puck instead of skating to and winning a race for it. Most of the time it works, but more than any other flyer it has costed us some goals.
does Pitkanen turn the puck over? sure he does but he is asked to handle the puck allot more then Rathje does so comparing to's between the 2 players is totally unfair. I have seen Rathje make his fair share of mistakes along with Pitkanen. But for my money i will take Pitkanen over Rathje.

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Old
11-16-2005, 02:26 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
does Pitkanen turn the puck over? sure he does but he is asked to handle the puck allot more then Rathje does so comparing to's between the 2 players is totally unfair. I have seen Rathje make his fair share of mistakes along with Pitkanen. But for my money i will take Pitkanen over Rathje.
obviously... he's been our best dman.

personally i think Rathje has been pretty solid. it's tough to be a dman these days... they're still working it out.

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Old
11-16-2005, 03:42 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
Rathje--I didn't say he was terrible I said he would rather challenge for the puck instead of skating for it and being there first. Yes, he's good. Yes, I'm glad he's a flyer. I also know he has turned the puck over which resulted in goals more than any other flyer.
I must (politely) disagree.

I just haven't seen the same Rathje you have. I think he's had one terrible game with perhaps two turnovers leading to goals, but _every_ defenseman has nights light that and I don't recall seeing it on a regular basis. For me, he's been the second-best D-man on the team, after Joni. He's rock solid, doesn't make mental mistakes, and is always in position.

That said, I do think your criticism of Rathje for not being physical is based on fact -- he's not a battler like Pronger. But for me, it looks like he's sound enough that he doesn't have to battle for position. He gets to the puck first because of superior hockey sense.

That's what I've seen, anyway.

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Old
11-16-2005, 06:04 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Stonehands77
Uhh, Stan, he's from Minnesota. Rochester, specifically.
Cant they spell in Minnesota?

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Old
11-16-2005, 06:23 PM
  #30
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my quick opinions so far:
hatcher-playing pretty solidly but not enough for the $$ theyre paying him
rathje- besides a few bad givaways playing pretty well. once again not enopugh for the $$ hes making
pitkanen- offensivly has been amazing. defensivly not stellar but not horrible taking a few too many penaltys
radio- taking too many penalties, needs a bit more offensive production.
savage- has been one of the only flyers hitting as mentioned above. needs to pick up offensivly a bit. for 500k you cant complain about him.
johnnson- not playing up to par with his past years but hes nagging a groin injury so hell pick up.
brashear- making way too much $$. wont even drop the gloves anymore. pitkanen has more PIM than him. they should either waive him or send him to the AHL or something. with his salary we could pick up an extra winger who can socre a few goals
therien-pretty awful playing so far. had a few good games but hes to slow and not hockey smart enough. get rid of him please.
seidenburg not bad for a #6 man. im thinking maybe we should give meyer or another AHL guy a chance though.

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Old
11-17-2005, 05:27 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
Carter--If you don't believe me about the cycling I guarantee you Hitch will coach Carter on how to cycle before he puts him with speedy wingers or flashy players so he can score off rushes.
I don't disagree with your point, but it might be overstated. Carter is never going to be a big cycler, the way he scored in junior was by squating on the puck and waiting for open teammates. (similar to Forsberg's style) Carter is not big enough (yet?) to do this in the NHL, and several times that I have watched him try he has been blown off the puck, resulting in an embarissing turnover.

He is primarily a finisher, but I agree that he needs to find a way to get his linemates more involved.

How would a line of Carter, Kapy and Sharp look? In my minds eye I see a poor-mans version of our top line, and I can't figure out if that is a good thing or a bad thing. Carter can't hold the puck or pass it like Forsberg (noone can), Kapinen (or 'The Parana' as I like to call him) as much as I love his game hasn't shown a scorers touch in years (though I don't think I'm the only one anticipating big things in the new NHL), and Sharp does not have nearly as strong a standing shot as Knuble. Would they benefit from the drawing a weak D assignment as our third scoring line? Or would they be squelched too easily? (Carter&Kapinen manhandled, Sharp beaten to the puck)

While I don't doubt that Carter 'belongs' in the NHL, (sending him back to the AHL would do nothing for him) I just don't think he is physically ready to play his game against grown men. I still think he will be a very good-star player, but I have adjusted my expections for this year way down.

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Old
11-17-2005, 06:17 PM
  #32
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The line of Kapanen, Sharp and Carter needs some grity. I'd play a line of Kapanen-Carter-Stevenson that way there's more than enough mobility to make up for Stevenson who will grind it out for the other two.

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Old
11-17-2005, 06:22 PM
  #33
krantan
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Sharp is a nasty little *******... unless by grit you mean size and presence (not always same thing)

I think you might be on to something with Stevenson. He has just enough skill to chip in a few if put into position. He doesn't have Sharp's playmaking abilities though.

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Old
11-17-2005, 06:59 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krantan
Sharp is a nasty little *******... unless by grit you mean size and presence (not always same thing)

I think you might be on to something with Stevenson. He has just enough skill to chip in a few if put into position. He doesn't have Sharp's playmaking abilities though.
I don't think Sharp has any play making abilities, and hold off on the stoning for just one second. The only time he gets credit for really making something happen is when he passes the puck to Carter, in which Carter finishes. Stevenson is more likely to use his size to dig a puck out, much like Knuble would for Forsberg/Gagne.

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Old
11-17-2005, 07:12 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho


Funny guy, complaining about Rathjes giveaways... Guess he's missed Pitkanen and Hatcher...
Didn't you get tired of bashing Pitkänen in the other thread?

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Old
11-17-2005, 08:41 PM
  #36
Dig Out Your Soul
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Stevenson is pretty much here to play defense. Putting him on a line with Carter would either limit Carter to defensive assignments or put Stevenson in a role where he has to offensively contribute. Either, in my opinion, doesn't work.

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Old
11-18-2005, 10:52 AM
  #37
krantan
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Sharp is extremely hard to knock off the puck for his size (I know they don't grade on a curve, but still), and has decent vision. His passing is only average, but that is a skill that can be developed. He has much better then average playmaking skills.

Don't forget that he was having a very nice year last year before Carter arrived. Blah blah AHL, I know. What it comes down to Carter really only has 1 NHL quality "pitch", his hands. His defence is ok, his skating is good but not phenominal, and he can't hold the puck. I think we need to do one of three things:

1) Write him off for this year as a contributer, use him as a fill in player, let him get used to NHL conditioning/strength training

2) Put him in a situation he is NOT comfortable in, with a very strongly defined role. This will force him to sink or swim, presumably to develop some skill he is lacking, ie give him a "change up" (A defensive line with him, Kaps and Stevenson would be interesting, or substitute Handzus for Kapy and work on dump-cycling ala early millenium Flyers teams)

3) Build a line around him to take advantage of his one skill (The poor man's 2112 comes to mind)

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Old
11-18-2005, 02:55 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krantan
Sharp is extremely hard to knock off the puck for his size (I know they don't grade on a curve, but still), and has decent vision. His passing is only average, but that is a skill that can be developed. He has much better then average playmaking skills.

Don't forget that he was having a very nice year last year before Carter arrived. Blah blah AHL, I know. What it comes down to Carter really only has 1 NHL quality "pitch", his hands. His defence is ok, his skating is good but not phenominal, and he can't hold the puck. I think we need to do one of three things:

1) Write him off for this year as a contributer, use him as a fill in player, let him get used to NHL conditioning/strength training

2) Put him in a situation he is NOT comfortable in, with a very strongly defined role. This will force him to sink or swim, presumably to develop some skill he is lacking, ie give him a "change up" (A defensive line with him, Kaps and Stevenson would be interesting, or substitute Handzus for Kapy and work on dump-cycling ala early millenium Flyers teams)

3) Build a line around him to take advantage of his one skill (The poor man's 2112 comes to mind)
He's definitely still a raw talent, but I think the only hope we have for a true 2nd scoring line is Carter. He's deadly off the rush and has an elite shot -- he's the only forward outside of 2112 that could possibly scare an opponent.

That said, making him work for minutes will probably make him a better player down the road. Hitch might be doing the best thing for Carter's development by rewarding him for rounding out his game.

Overall, the problem with Carter is the problem with the team. Outside of 2112, our players don't have roles, or they have roles that don't match their skill set.

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Old
11-18-2005, 04:51 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clumsysnake
Outside of 2112, our players don't have roles, or they have roles that don't match their skill set.
I think this is the crux of our problem.

Richards and Handzus (and possibly Umberger) are capable of centering a second scoring line, we just don't have the right (as in correct) wingers to put with them. I think we have plenty of talent on this team (when healthy) but I don't know if we have complimentary pieces to form synergetic lines. Maybe Radio will step up, maybe Kapinen will flurish under the new rules, maybe Umberger or Carter can get confortable at the wing, maybe we will make a trade. Until one of those things happen, we really only have one line, the rest of the time we are just sending out three skaters.

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Old
11-18-2005, 06:03 PM
  #40
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My 2 bits!

Rathje sucks the big one. The guy takes a crap load of penalties and coughs up the puck. His mobility is limited and his personality sucks. Brashear has forgot what got him to this league, fighting, so might as well dump him too. I agree that Therien is pretty much a pilon. Johnsson has played well, but the kid is missing the net with his shots, but still a bright spot on defense overall. The way I see it is Kapanen should take Brashears spot in the lineup when he returns and once Primeau is back, Radivojevic or Savage will be riding the pine. Overall the team is near the top of the league, but Esche is definitely worrying me. Personally I feel more comfortable when Niittymaki is in net. He started out slow this season, but definitely has been rounding into form recently. I think once half the season is over, then it is time to rate who the starter should be. Lets see how the next 25 games go and hopefully the Flyers continue to find ways to win.

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