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Having an owner with a big market mentality means fewer worries about the cap

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Old
11-17-2011, 04:15 PM
  #1
joshjull
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Having an owner with a big market mentality means fewer worries about the cap

I say this because if Pegula is willing to eat 5mil in salaries for an entire year. I would imagine he is willing to eat a little more later in the year to stay cap compliant to facilitate a deadline trade. We will also use the LTIR exemption to stock an injury depleted roster if we need to. Add to that a GM with a lot of experience making deadline trades with financial constrictions.

We should be fine in regards to the cap.


Last edited by joshjull: 11-17-2011 at 06:49 PM.
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11-17-2011, 05:01 PM
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Agreed. But it is a hovering issue that we aren't used to dealing with, which is why it is getting this attention IMO.

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11-17-2011, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Agreed. But it is a hovering issue that we aren't used to dealing with, which is why it is getting this attention IMO.
Oh its completely understandable that posters are talking about. But I was reminding them (and myself to be honest) that we are in a different financial world with Pegula. As such we have options that weren't available in the past. Like right now with us using the LTIR exemption.


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11-17-2011, 05:46 PM
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I think the only issue comes forth of where we have something like the Regehr trade - where we have to take a guy just to bury in the minors/Europe (Kotalik) just to make a trade "work".

I agree - what's another million or two in the big picture?

But I think where some posters are thinking is "why should we have to do this at all?"

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11-17-2011, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BigZackKassian View Post
I think the only issue comes forth of where we have something like the Regehr trade - where we have to take a guy just to bury in the minors/Europe (Kotalik) just to make a trade "work".

I agree - what's another million or two in the big picture?

But I think where some posters are thinking is "why should we have to do this at all?"
If you're refering to the Brennan call up. We currently have no cap space. Its been used up. We are now spending LTIR money. Thats something the previous owner would never do, certainly not to have 7th dman. This is money that wont hurt the cap space but will give the coach depth options.


We are doing what big market clubs have done for years. Use LTIR to expand the roster when injuries hit.


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11-17-2011, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Oh Its completely understandable that posters are talking about. But I was reminding them (and myself to be honest) that we are in a different financial world with Pegula. As such we have options that weren't available in the past. Like right now with us using the LTIR exemption.
Absolutely. And I agree. It's another item that is simply a refreshing "issue" to have to "deal with"


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11-17-2011, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Absolutely. And I agree. It's another item that is simply a refreshing "issue" to have to "deal with"
Yes it is.

And one I'm not completely sure with how it works. So it's a learning process for me (and other fans, I'm assuming).

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11-17-2011, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Yes it is.

And one I'm not completely sure with how it works. So it's a learning process for me (and other fans, I'm assuming).
I've had the (pleasure?) of growing up in Ranger territory so I have a decent grasp on the notion of big bucks, but yeah, we are all new to this as Sabres fans in said predicament. Definitely a learning process for me, you, and many others.

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11-17-2011, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Yes it is.

And one I'm not completely sure with how it works. So it's a learning process for me (and other fans, I'm assuming).
Same here. In large part its relearning the possible. So many things were dismissed in the past as not being viable options because of the finanical restrictions of the previous owner.

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11-17-2011, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I've had the (pleasure?) of growing up in Ranger territory so I have a decent grasp on the notion of big bucks, but yeah, we are all new to this as Sabres fans in said predicament. Definitely a learning process for me, you, and many others.
As long as it's not a learning process for Regier and he knows what he is doing wrt the cap.

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11-17-2011, 07:00 PM
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Eventually, it could become a problem if bad contracts are handed out.

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11-17-2011, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Eventually, it could become a problem if bad contracts are handed out.
Not really. By spending like a big market team we are able to sign guys to frontloaded deals. Thus reducing their cap hit which is the only thing that matters. When combined with everything else (willingness to eat contracts, using LTIR to expand roster, etc) it would be awfully hard for a big spending team to get into a bind they couldn't find a way out of. If Philly (among others) has taught us nothing else, its that.


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11-18-2011, 07:29 AM
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Personally, I have the opposite concern with Pegula giving Regier a blank check.

Now Regier is in a position to make huge UFA mistakes like say the Rangers did with Wade Redden, Scott Gomez, and Chris Drury.

For instance, Leino could be a huge mistake that Regier wouldn't have been allowed to make with BTG as owner.

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11-18-2011, 08:30 AM
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Well maybe Pegula will let him send leino down to rochester if he doesn't pan out. =/

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11-18-2011, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Personally, I have the opposite concern with Pegula giving Regier a blank check.

Now Regier is in a position to make huge UFA mistakes like say the Rangers did with Wade Redden, Scott Gomez, and Chris Drury.

For instance, Leino could be a huge mistake that Regier wouldn't have been allowed to make with BTG as owner.
Leino's contract isn't remotely close in cap hit or total payout to the Redden, Gomez and Drury deals.

Drury ----> 5yrs 35.25mil (7.05 cap hit)
Gomez ---> 7yrs 51.5mil (7.4mil cap hit)
Redden --> 6yrs 39mil (6.5mil cap hit).
Leino ----> 6yrs 27mil (4.5mil cap hit)

Considering Drury/Gomez signed in the summer of 2007 and Redden in 2008. Leino's money is peanuts by comparison 3-4 years later.

The Golisano approach to contracts was actually more likely to give us a high cap hit deal. Since front loading wasn't an option to reduce the cap hit. Our 3 biggest cap hits are all pre-Pegula contracts.

Vanek ---> 7yrs 50mil (7.12mil cap hit)
Miller ----> 5yrs 31.25mil (6.25mil)
Pommer -> 5yrs 26.5mil (5.3mil)

Our big UFA signings are the 4th (Leino) and 6th (Ehrhoff and is tied with 3 others at 4mil) biggest cap hits on the team.

Next year with Myers extension, Vanek and Miller will still have the two biggest cap hits and Pommer will be barely behind Myers (5.5mil to 5.3mil)


Regeir knows how to work the system even when he is throwing money around.


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11-18-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Leino contract isn't remotely close in cap hit or total payout to the Redden, Gomez and Drury deals.

Our big UFA signings are the 4th (Leino) and 6th (Ehrhoff and is tied with 3 others at 4mil) biggest cap hits on the team.

Next year with Myers extension, Vanek and Miller will still have the two biggest cap hits and Pommer will be barely behind Myers (5.5mil to 5.3mil)

Regeir knows how to work the system even when he is throwing money around.
True, but it is still a concern if they do go about giving bigger and longer deals than they have in the past.

The bigger the check, usually the bigger the risk & potential reward.

BTG would never have allowed a 10 yr deal for Ehrhoff. That length has both upside and downside potential.

It appears to be manageable. But, I don't think that Pegula will have an unlimited appetite to stashing guys in Rochester or Europe if deals go bad.

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11-18-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
True, but it is still a concern if they do go about giving bigger and longer deals than they have in the past.

The bigger the check, usually the bigger the risk & potential reward.

BTG would never have allowed a 10 yr deal for Ehrhoff. That length has both upside and downside potential.

It appears to be manageable. But, I don't think that Pegula will have an unlimited appetite to stashing guys in Rochester or Europe if deals go bad.

Thats because it is.

Why are you trying so hard to find an issue with something that really isn't one. Enjoy the big money owner.


Its odd that you're referencing BTG and what he wouldn't allow as some sort of counterpoint. Because of BTG's horrible contract policies we lost our two best players and saw a conference championship team get gutted in two summers. Then in reaction to that we ended up with the biggest contract we've ever had as well as the biggest cap hit in Vanek's deal (50mil over 7yrs and 7.124 mil cap hit). Four years later and Vanek's deal is still the biggest on the team and is still the biggest cap hit. We also gave Pommer a 5yr deal with a 5.3mil cap hit (a front loaded longer deal likely would have meant smaller cap hit) and Roy got a 6yr deal that was backloaded making it tougher to move at the end.


Golisano is not in any way shape or form a person you should use as a counterpoint on contracts. His idiocy on that front hurt this team badly.


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11-20-2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Thats because it is.

Why are you trying so hard to find an issue with something that really isn't one. Enjoy the big money owner.
You don't know what will happen down the road.

Having a big money owner can help make up for bad contracts. But, it's a better idea to have as few mistakes as possible.

Plus, Pegula won't own the team forever. Even he's talked about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Its odd that you're referencing BTG and what he wouldn't allow as some sort of counterpoint. Because of BTG's horrible contract policies we lost our two best players and saw a conference championship team get gutted in two summers. Then in reaction to that we ended up with the biggest contract we've ever had as well as the biggest cap hit in Vanek's deal (50mil over 7yrs and 7.124 mil cap hit). Four years later and Vanek's deal is still the biggest on the team and is still the biggest cap hit. We also gave Pommer a 5yr deal with a 5.3mil cap hit (a front loaded longer deal likely would have meant smaller cap hit) and Roy got a 6yr deal that was backloaded making it tougher to move at the end.

Golisano is not in any way shape or form a person you should use as a counterpoint on contracts. His idiocy on that front hurt this team badly.
My point was that having a big money owner opens up a team to taking big swings. And when you take big swings, sometimes you hit home runs and sometimes you strike out.

Just look at all the big money backed swings that Slats has taken with the Rangers and how that has worked out.

I love that BTG is out and Pegula is in. But, that doesn't mean that signing guys to bad contracts is something that is nothing to worry about.

The best case scenario is that there is a huge opportunity cost to missing on big deals in FA.

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