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Old
11-18-2011, 06:27 AM
  #26
BringBackStevens
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What our organization did to carter was ******

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11-18-2011, 06:45 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
What our organization did to carter was ******
Yep..Lost respect for them with that..
At least with the Richards trade they sent him to a contender.

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11-18-2011, 07:35 AM
  #28
decadentia
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
What our organization did to carter was ******
Couldn't agree more.

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Old
11-18-2011, 07:41 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
What our organization did to carter was ******
yea you're right.....because when they signed him to his deal they knew right then and there that they were going to trade him because there were issues.....And because in the business of the NHL, players get traded all the time....and that because you sign a deal somewhere you have the 'right' to not be traded....

1. You don't want to be traded, don't go out boozing and causing a distraction
2. You don't want to be traded, try hitting the net
3. You don't want to be traded, try bringing something to the rink that makes it hard to trade you away
4. You don't want to be traded, don't play in the NHL.

This is a business. Everyone is in it to win it. Trades happen.


I lost no respect for the Flyers when they made that move, it took balls to do it. They felt it was better for the club to go in a different direction. Obviously something occured to bring that to light. If you think the club signed him to an 11 year deal with the immediate intention of shipping him out, you're ignorant.

Things happen, bounces don't always go your way. Thats hockey.

Edited to say that I also feel bad for him, but I don't blame the organization, how can you when you hear about all the stories, which are widely believed to be accurate?

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11-18-2011, 07:58 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
yea you're right.....because when they signed him to his deal they knew right then and there that they were going to trade him because there were issues.....And because in the business of the NHL, players get traded all the time....and that because you sign a deal somewhere you have the 'right' to not be traded....

1. You don't want to be traded, don't go out boozing and causing a distraction
2. You don't want to be traded, try hitting the net
3. You don't want to be traded, try bringing something to the rink that makes it hard to trade you away
4. You don't want to be traded, don't play in the NHL.

This is a business. Everyone is in it to win it. Trades happen.


I lost no respect for the Flyers when they made that move, it took balls to do it. They felt it was better for the club to go in a different direction. Obviously something occured to bring that to light. If you think the club signed him to an 11 year deal with the immediate intention of shipping him out, you're ignorant.

Things happen, bounces don't always go your way. Thats hockey.

Edited to say that I also feel bad for him, but I don't blame the organization, how can you when you hear about all the stories, which are widely believed to be accurate?
Bolded, get yourself a mirror.

1. Voracek is a "known" partier, they traded for him in the same deal? While that's the great rumor surrounding the trade, they still screwed him over.

2. For a guy that can't hit the net, he sure scored a lot of goals. He averaged 36 goals a season for us his last 4 seasons here. One of which he had 46 goals I might add. High goalscorers shoot a lot, deal with it and try to come up with an actual argument instead of just ignorant bashing.

3. How about a big center with good two-way play and arguably one of the better goalscorers in the league the last few years?

4. If you don't want to be killed in a car accident, don't drive...Makes about as much sense, especially considering he was clearly given the impression he was here for his career.

They told Carter he was going to be a centerpiece in this organization, he signed a cheaper caphit for a long period of time due to this, if he expected them to turn around and trade him he wouldn't have done so. It's a business alright, and Holmgren certainly didn't do himself any favors with future signings. That's why he was screwed over.

I haven't read a post that seemed so simplistic and dense in nature as this in a very long time.

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Old
11-18-2011, 08:05 AM
  #31
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Carter to Vancouver.

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Old
11-18-2011, 08:08 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
What our organization did to carter was ******
Couldn't disagree more.

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Old
11-18-2011, 08:11 AM
  #33
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We got some real Homers for Homer around here these days.

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Old
11-18-2011, 08:31 AM
  #34
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Forget how you feel about Carter and/or Homer....how can anyone look at the events that transpired from November 2010 to June 2011 and think that Carter didn't get screwed?

I know, I know, he got 11 years of guaranteed money, but if that was the only thing that he cared about, he wouldn't be unhappy. Add to that the fact that he would've gotten paid just as much--if not more--this past summer.

I was never a big Carter guy, but he got dicked over big time.

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11-18-2011, 08:35 AM
  #35
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Meh. This seems like a non-story to me. One of all of these "potential deals" that journalists/bloggers bandy around. Carter wasn't pleased with the trade, and now Columbus is off to a horrible start, he must be looking for a trade, right? Right... hmm... Calgary could use a 1st line center, don't they? Carter to Calgary m3.

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11-18-2011, 08:36 AM
  #36
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Meh. This seems like a non-story to me. One of all of these "potential deals" that journalists/bloggers bandy around. Carter wasn't pleased with the trade, and now Columbus is off to a horrible start, he must be looking for a trade, right? Right... hmm... Calgary could use a 1st line center, don't they? Carter to Calgary m3.
The guy who wrote it is essentially the French Bob McKenzie I guess, incredibly reliable.

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Old
11-18-2011, 08:51 AM
  #37
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I normally hate when guys demand trades, but I actually think this is reasonable. He got screwed by the Flyers and wound up in probably the worst hockey city in the league. At least in places like Miami there's stuff to do.

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Old
11-18-2011, 08:58 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Bolded, get yourself a mirror.

1. Voracek is a "known" partier, they traded for him in the same deal? While that's the great rumor surrounding the trade, they still screwed him over.

2. For a guy that can't hit the net, he sure scored a lot of goals. He averaged 36 goals a season for us his last 4 seasons here. One of which he had 46 goals I might add. High goalscorers shoot a lot, deal with it and try to come up with an actual argument instead of just ignorant bashing.

3. How about a big center with good two-way play and arguably one of the better goalscorers in the league the last few years?

4. If you don't want to be killed in a car accident, don't drive...Makes about as much sense, especially considering he was clearly given the impression he was here for his career.

They told Carter he was going to be a centerpiece in this organization, he signed a cheaper caphit for a long period of time due to this, if he expected them to turn around and trade him he wouldn't have done so. It's a business alright, and Holmgren certainly didn't do himself any favors with future signings. That's why he was screwed over.

I haven't read a post that seemed so simplistic and dense in nature as this in a very long time.
The way you describe Carter as the next coming of Jesus himself now ahs me wondering why the Flyers traded him....Ohwell, too late to do backsies. I just can't imagine why anyone would want to trade this guy.

1. I have never heard Voracek is a "known partier". Not saying you are wrong, but everyone in the league knows Carter is. That would likely shed some light onto the magnitude of the problem.

2. You are right, he has scored alot of goals for the Flyers, too bad none of them were when it really mattered? 0.39 Goals per game regular season with a shooting average above 10% his entire Flyers career. 0.27 goals per game post season, shooting percentage averaging 7.2%. That is a big drop, when it matters most.

Of course he shoots alot, I'd love to see how many chances and how many more goals he could have had, had he not shot over the net on what seemed like every other 2-1 or shot he took.

3. Big center, good two way game. We arent really missing him are we? With the exception of face-offs that is, he would be a big help there no doubt.

4. yea he was given the impression he was here for his career. But what actions did he take after the fact? Obviously not favourable ones. I get a new job, work diligently, and after my 3 months I have a favourable review, so i get the impression I am here for the long haul. But my work habits change, i stay out late every night, even nights before a big board meeting, my performance drops and my co-workers are taking notice. My boss calls me into the office, says look, I notice your slipping, knock off the late night stuff. I keep it up, who cares, they told me I'm here the long haul when I was working hard and doing my job. I find myself fired.

Its the way he regressed after signing that led to his dimise. Is my employer wrong for theoretically letting me go, even though after my probation they led me to believe I was there for the long haul? Not at all, my performance dropped, I was a distraction to my co-workers, they warned me. But at the end of the day, I didnt change.

Jeff Carter is this person. He signed a deal in good faith, so did the Club. But his partying etc obviously left a sour taste in the brass' mouth. They got rid of him. No one to blame but himself. How can you fault the organization for that? Even if the problems were brought to light ahead of the signing, you have a guy in the organization 6 years, you give them the benefit of the doubt. They prove you wrong and the axe falls.

Is it really that hard to grasp that the Club didnt screw Carter at all, that the reasons he was sent packing were brought on by himself?

Star players in this league don't just get shipped out for no reason, and it was widely publicized as to what Carter was up to. But I'm the ignorant one for not realizing what is right in front of me, and placing blame where it is due.

This is the NHL, you play the game to win, you understand it is a business. You therefore present yourself in the best way possible to be attractive to teams who want to win, and want you apart of that. Carter thought his skill was enough, but didnt work to present a professional off-ice persona, he acted childish, and a team looking to win now doesnt have time for off-ice distractions and players who arent going to give their focus to the goal.

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Old
11-18-2011, 09:03 AM
  #39
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I really couldn't care less about Carter's feelings, and the Flyers did what was best for the team. Instead of turning into the Eagles and allowing a problem to fester because they couldn't make the tough decision to shake things up, they went against the grain with the decisions they made. The Flyers org. knew there was going to be a lot of pissed off fans, but they made what they felt was the best decision for the team.

The way Carter has acted since being traded has made me more confident in the Flyers decision to move him.

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Old
11-18-2011, 09:06 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
Couldn't disagree more.
Yeah that's how I feel too. Sports is a buisness, it's not about making friends here. Screw Carter if it benefits the team.

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Old
11-18-2011, 09:06 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
yea you're right.....because when they signed him to his deal they knew right then and there that they were going to trade him because there were issues.....And because in the business of the NHL, players get traded all the time....and that because you sign a deal somewhere you have the 'right' to not be traded....

1. You don't want to be traded, don't go out boozing and causing a distraction
2. You don't want to be traded, try hitting the net
3. You don't want to be traded, try bringing something to the rink that makes it hard to trade you away
4. You don't want to be traded, don't play in the NHL.

This is a business. Everyone is in it to win it. Trades happen.


I lost no respect for the Flyers when they made that move, it took balls to do it. They felt it was better for the club to go in a different direction. Obviously something occured to bring that to light. If you think the club signed him to an 11 year deal with the immediate intention of shipping him out, you're ignorant.

Things happen, bounces don't always go your way. Thats hockey.

Edited to say that I also feel bad for him, but I don't blame the organization, how can you when you hear about all the stories, which are widely believed to be accurate?
The flyers had 7 years to evaluate carter up close and deemed him worth an 11 year commitment. 6 months later he's gone before the contract even kicks in.

The flyers should not have committed to a player if they weren't sure they wanted him around. Especially so when it's with a guy who had been extremely interested in sticking around, even so much so that he was flexible on his contract demands and left money on the table to stay.

That's bad business and a weasel move. It embarrassed me a little bit

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Old
11-18-2011, 09:15 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
The way you describe Carter as the next coming of Jesus himself now ahs me wondering why the Flyers traded him....Ohwell, too late to do backsies. I just can't imagine why anyone would want to trade this guy.

1. I have never heard Voracek is a "known partier". Not saying you are wrong, but everyone in the league knows Carter is. That would likely shed some light onto the magnitude of the problem.

2. You are right, he has scored alot of goals for the Flyers, too bad none of them were when it really mattered? 0.39 Goals per game regular season with a shooting average above 10% his entire Flyers career. 0.27 goals per game post season, shooting percentage averaging 7.2%. That is a big drop, when it matters most.

Of course he shoots alot, I'd love to see how many chances and how many more goals he could have had, had he not shot over the net on what seemed like every other 2-1 or shot he took.

3. Big center, good two way game. We arent really missing him are we? With the exception of face-offs that is, he would be a big help there no doubt.

4. yea he was given the impression he was here for his career. But what actions did he take after the fact? Obviously not favourable ones. I get a new job, work diligently, and after my 3 months I have a favourable review, so i get the impression I am here for the long haul. But my work habits change, i stay out late every night, even nights before a big board meeting, my performance drops and my co-workers are taking notice. My boss calls me into the office, says look, I notice your slipping, knock off the late night stuff. I keep it up, who cares, they told me I'm here the long haul when I was working hard and doing my job. I find myself fired.

Its the way he regressed after signing that led to his dimise. Is my employer wrong for theoretically letting me go, even though after my probation they led me to believe I was there for the long haul? Not at all, my performance dropped, I was a distraction to my co-workers, they warned me. But at the end of the day, I didnt change.

Jeff Carter is this person. He signed a deal in good faith, so did the Club. But his partying etc obviously left a sour taste in the brass' mouth. They got rid of him. No one to blame but himself. How can you fault the organization for that? Even if the problems were brought to light ahead of the signing, you have a guy in the organization 6 years, you give them the benefit of the doubt. They prove you wrong and the axe falls.

Is it really that hard to grasp that the Club didnt screw Carter at all, that the reasons he was sent packing were brought on by himself?

Star players in this league don't just get shipped out for no reason, and it was widely publicized as to what Carter was up to. But I'm the ignorant one for not realizing what is right in front of me, and placing blame where it is due.

This is the NHL, you play the game to win, you understand it is a business. You therefore present yourself in the best way possible to be attractive to teams who want to win, and want you apart of that. Carter thought his skill was enough, but didnt work to present a professional off-ice persona, he acted childish, and a team looking to win now doesnt have time for off-ice distractions and players who arent going to give their focus to the goal.
Saying that our club doesn't miss him smacks of ignorance and really shows just how far into the sand flyers fans are willing to bury their heads in order to defend the team's management.

I mean surely management made this move to benefit the team right? Because they deserve that kind of blind faith based on prior results. How's that been working out for us?

This is a management that hasn't won jack **** for us in 35 years.

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Old
11-18-2011, 09:17 AM
  #43
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The flyers had 7 years to evaluate carter up close and deemed him worth an 11 year commitment. 6 months later he's gone before the contract even kicks in.

The flyers should not have committed to a player if they weren't sure they wanted him around. Especially so when it's with a guy who had been extremely interested in sticking around, even so much so that he was flexible on his contract demands and left money on the table to stay.

That's bad business and a weasel move. It embarrassed me a little bit
Actually, what you just described is good business.

Why are you so dead set against thinking any of the outcome was Carter's responsibility? The way you describe things makes it seem as though you feel the Flyers don't care about the team/business, and traded Carter just to get their rocks off.

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11-18-2011, 09:32 AM
  #44
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Actually, what you just described is good business.

Why are you so dead set against thinking any of the outcome was Carter's responsibility? The way you describe things makes it seem as though you feel the Flyers don't care about the team/business, and traded Carter just to get their rocks off.
I agree. Moreover, what Columbus did and has been doing is a prime example of BAD business. Bad to the point of bankruptcy. Hence them being one the worst teams in the league and the Flyers one of the better ones thus far despite Holmgren being such a dope.

Anyway..what the Flyers did or didn't do to Carter and vice versa is not the primary issue. Again if the rumor is true and right now we don't know for certain ...the real issue is him possibly wanting to bail on his new team after 7 games or whatever he's played. If I'm on Columbus and especially a player like Nash or even Umberger I would punch Carter in his smug face b/c quite frankly what makes him so special and what has he done for Columbus to merit such special consideration? I'm sure the whole team feels like crap and players like Nash and Umberger who have given much more beyond 7 games have more of a gripe...Carter on the other hand needs to be a bit more professional to say the least and this displeasure of his if true won't win him many points from a character standpoint if a team is assessing him all around and not just based on pure talent which he does have and nobody is really denying him that.

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11-18-2011, 09:36 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Saying that our club doesn't miss him smacks of ignorance and really shows just how far into the sand flyers fans are willing to bury their heads in order to defend the team's management.

I mean surely management made this move to benefit the team right? Because they deserve that kind of blind faith based on prior results. How's that been working out for us?

This is a management that hasn't won jack **** for us in 35 years.

I see what you are saying about screwing over Carter and I agree with you that it sends a bad impression to others to sign with us in the future. However, since we are in first place in the east and Columbus is in last overall, please explain to me how we are BADLY missing Carter? I don't see it. I don't miss him. All I care about is winning and until we aren't winning then I won't miss him. I probably won't miss him even if we are losing.

Players come and go and you've gotta get over the fact that he's no longer on the team. Just like Gagne, Lindros, Richards, and any other player that's been traded from the team.

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Old
11-18-2011, 09:42 AM
  #46
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I think the key to this thread not being locked by partisan bickering which is not easy to stop is to just focus on the merits of Carter's request to be traded (if true) on a team that he's played 7 games or whatever for. To me there is not much to defend there. Again if I've been on Columbus for a long time like Nash or Umberger I would not be happy about Carter's actions. Players like Nash and Umberger deserve to be accomodated by Columbus' management more than anybody. Carter jumping in front of the line to steal one of the remaining life rafts on the Titanic that is Columbus is just a weasel move. Again for Carter's sake and reputation in the league I hope this rumor is unfounded..

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11-18-2011, 09:43 AM
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Hopefully the report about Carter wanting to be traded has some merit to it ? because if it is simply some reporter just trying to stir things up, its a really unprofessional thing to do to a player who is in Carter's situation and it's unfair to the other Columbus player's as well.controversy sells in today's world for sure.
Homer's moves this summer seem to be paying off, and Voracek is starting to play well.Hopefully Carter will go about his business in a professional manner and do is best to try and turn things around in Columbus.
It seems all the other players involved in this summer's trades got the " gold mine" and carter got stuck with the " shaft " .Pro sports is a business, and sometimes things just don't go your way. How a player handles himself when things are not going his way are the things that really define that player.I hope carter gives it his best every night, it will serve him well to do that in the long run.

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11-18-2011, 09:55 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Saying that our club doesn't miss him smacks of ignorance and really shows just how far into the sand flyers fans are willing to bury their heads in order to defend the team's management.

I mean surely management made this move to benefit the team right? Because they deserve that kind of blind faith based on prior results. How's that been working out for us?

This is a management that hasn't won jack **** for us in 35 years.
Explain to me how we are missing Carter when we have more goals a game this year, and a higher goal differential, with a much improved goaltending?

Faceoffs? Sure we are losing in that regard, but how has that stopped the team, considering they have played to 11-4-3 with the one of the leagues worst face-off %'s. And that can't even be placed on Carter, with Richards and Betts also out.

Present to me some stats and facts about how this team misses Carter aside from your 'feelings' about how he was treated.

And don't bother bringing his size into this, because aside from the centers, this team is bigger, stronger and faster then last years, and the centers are having no trouble holdering their own size wise.

So the management over the past 35 years is how you are judging these deals? No **** you don't have any faith. Homer has made some bad moves in his time, but are the ones previous to his tenour his fault? Not at all.

Can you not give credit where it is due? This team has good goaltending, a solid forward core and a good defense. Whats the problem? Sounds to me like your 'feelings' about the Carter trade have alot more to do with other transactions and transgretions then the deal itself....

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11-18-2011, 09:55 AM
  #49
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This is a management that hasn't won jack **** for us in 35 years.
Except for more games and more playoff games than any organization in the NHL not located in Quebec.

I don't dispute that the Cup is the big prize, but as a fan watching 82+ games a year, putting a consistently competitive product on the ice is the most important thing. And thats (almost) all management. And the Flyers are among the best of the best.

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11-18-2011, 10:05 AM
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More info...

Quote:
By the American Thanksgiving (a week), several general managers will try to move to improve their team. Un nom qui circule présentement, est celui de Jeff Carter. A name that is currently circulating is that of Jeff Carter.

Pas que les Blue Jackets veulent se débarrasser de ses services, mais plutôt parce que ce dernier aurait exigé une transaction. Not that the Blue Jackets want to get rid of its services, but because it would require a transaction.

Cette information provient de Columbus et plusieurs directeurs généraux la détiennent présentement. This information comes from Columbus, and many CEOs hold it now.

Reste que lorsque j'ai contacté l'agent de Jeff Carter, Rick Curran, ce dernier m'a affirmé que son client N'A PAS exigé une transaction, contrairement aux rumeurs qui circulent. Is that when I contacted the agent Jeff Carter, Rick Curran, the latter told me that his client did not require a transaction, contrary to rumors.

La question est toutefois de savoir si Carter se plait à Columbus ? The question is however whether Carter likes to Columbus? Il n'a amassé que 3 passes en 7 rencontres, lui qui se remet d'une fracture à un pied. He has amassed only 3 assists in 7 games, he is recovering from a broken foot.

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