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Gm #19 Kings @ Ducks, 11/17/11 - POST GAME WIN!, THOUGHTS & TIDBITS {Déjà vu!}

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Old
11-18-2011, 01:05 AM
  #101
Ron
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Originally Posted by CTKingsFan View Post
All the moving player stuff aside...


Fun game to watch tonight! Won 3 of 4! Getting back on track! Love hearing the Go Kings Go! chants in the honda center.
4 of 5.

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11-18-2011, 01:08 AM
  #102
Vic Vinegar
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
So what happens when Loki/slava gets hurt? Cause odds are it will. YOU DO NOT GET RID OF DEPTH.

It's why teams WIN THE STANLEY CUP.
You're right, depth does win cups. The thing is, we need depth on offense. I was optimistic about the bottom six, but I think it has become clear that we need help there. If Martinez (or Martinez + pick) can get us a solid 3rd liner, you have to pull the trigger. If someone on D gets hurt, call up Hickey.

Loktionov, I agree. I like what I see so far but he still needs to prove he can stay healthy for a full year.

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11-18-2011, 01:16 AM
  #103
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The Kings have a back to back next week against the Blues and Stars, I figure Bernier will get his next start in one of those games. Quick will get enough rest as the Kings have two days off after the Detroit game on Sat.
Bernier usually plays well against the Stars, so he should get that game. You never know with Murray though.

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11-18-2011, 01:18 AM
  #104
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I'm thinking the last 2 games Richards was "playoff" Richards.
Having seen all of his games, reg and playoff, no, he's not even close yet. What you saw and will see going forward is Mike Richards being Mike Richards, it' sthe only way he knows how to play . He's got insane ice intelligence, his hockey IQ is off the charts...and he just gets 'it', the how ,why ,when and where of winning and clutch. I thought it would take 15 to 20 games for him to get used to being on a new team with new players, and finding his role. The last few games that's what I've seen. He'll get better with every passing game.

Playoff Mike Richards--that's is something you have to see and live thru to experience and appreicate. The best way to describe him (when he's not hurt or sick, unfortunately last year playoffs he had pneumonia (down almost 15 lbs) and a busted up wrist but he didn't miss a shift, it did affect his stamina, and play) in the playoffs is like a shark in blood infested waters - full predator mode. It's the reason he's won championshiops at every level he's played at...because it usually inspirs his teammates to live up to that standard when they put their leg over the boards.

Sat against Detroit should be his best game yet, there's something aboug going head to head with Datsyuk that fires up his rockets...he usually has really good games against the Redwings.

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11-18-2011, 01:31 AM
  #105
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Good, fun game to watch tonight.

I really dislike TM and his decisions as the current coach, however you can not question his style when going into the 3rd period with a lead. I don't remember the stats but I don't think the Kings have lost a game leading after 2 in a very long time.

Voynov is the real deal. 3 goals in 7 games is impressive especially for a rookie.

Our top 6 is looking good, but our bottom 6 is terrible. Although, I feel this is a good problem to have, it's easier getting 3rd line players rather than top 6'ers....

I really hope Gagne can stay healthy this year. He's one of 2 kings I just know will score on a breakaway. Kopi is the other.

I have a man crush on Mike Richards. I can't wait for playoff mode from him. The dude is nails.

Brown is starting to hit again. Not as much as he used/needs to, but it's coming around.

The Kings still stink 5 on 5. It's not going to be an overnight fix but if the PP ever cools off this team will be in trouble.

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11-18-2011, 01:40 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
Playoff Mike Richards--that's is something you have to see and live thru to experience and appreicate. The best way to describe him (when he's not hurt or sick, unfortunately last year playoffs he had pneumonia (down almost 15 lbs) and a busted up wrist but he didn't miss a shift, it did affect his stamina, and play) in the playoffs is like a shark in blood infested waters - full predator mode. It's the reason he's won championshiops at every level he's played at...because it usually inspirs his teammates to live up to that standard when they put their leg over the boards.
That one-two punch of Kopitar & Richards is going to be HUGE come playoff time. It's going to be a thing of beauty to behold.

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11-18-2011, 01:40 AM
  #107
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I really hope Gagne can stay healthy this year. He's one of 2 kings I just know will score on a breakaway. Kopi is the other.
Gagne is poetry in motion...literally. It broke my heart when the Flyers traded him after 10 years...he's not only a natural skater and scorer , but class act all the way. One of the few athletes in Phila I've seen (and going back to the 70's) who was liked, admired and respected by teammates, opponents, management, coaches, reporters, media, ...not one person ever said anything bad about him..
And having him say in an interview in October that this is the 'happiest he's ever been in his career' just speaks volumes about how close this team is and how much they are playing for each other. You can see it in Gagne's game...and I hope (pray ) he stays healthy- he's motivated , happy and hungry...he wants a Cup...all of that equals lots of goals and W's.

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11-18-2011, 01:42 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
Gagne is poetry in motion...literally. It broke my heart when the Flyers traded him after 10 years...he's not only a natural skater and scorer , but class act all the way. One of the few athletes in Phila I've seen (and going back to the 70's) who was liked, admired and respected by teammates, opponents, management, coaches, reporters, media, ...not one person ever said anything bad about him..
And having him say in an interview in October that this is the 'happiest he's ever been in his career' just speaks volumes about how close this team is and how much they are playing for each other. You can see it in Gagne's game...and I hope (pray ) he stays healty, he's motivated , happy and hungry...he wants a Cup...all of that equals lost of goals and W's.

Aww, he said that? I just might cry.

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11-18-2011, 01:53 AM
  #109
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Having Kopi and Richards be the guys that need to drive this team forward is a thing of beauty. We are so lucky to have them both.

Nice win.

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11-18-2011, 01:55 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by outofrange View Post
Having Kopi and Richards be the guys that need to drive this team forward is a thing of beauty. We are so lucky to have them both.

Nice win.
And to have them both for at least the next 5 years is a damn good thing.

I might even go out on a limb and say that this is arguably the top 1-2 punch in the league right now. Top 3-5 for sure.

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11-18-2011, 01:57 AM
  #111
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Great back to back games
The Ducks can't handle the kings
Fix your lights Ponda.

Kent French is a dork
I wish that he and O'Neil
Both got lost a sea

The Kings are in first
Eat our dust Corey Perry
Shave your head Getzlaf.

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11-18-2011, 02:01 AM
  #112
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Good victory.

Richards has really stepped it up after a slow start.

Kopitar was just "meh" the last two games IMO, and the Kings still won. That's a good sign.

I'm sold on Quick.

I miss the old Drew Doughty.

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11-18-2011, 02:36 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ru4reals View Post
JMFJ - The M stand for Minus! Unbelievable how this happens and his partner gets a +.
How do people still not understand that doughty>>>>>>>>>>Johnson. That's why doughty gets $7mil a year. I can't wait to see what voynov gets. Voynov>>>>>>>doughty. If we base it off the difference between johnson's contract and dounut's contract, voynov should get something in the neighborhood of $12mil per year.

But seriously, jmfj has to be the unluckiest player in the NHL.

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11-18-2011, 04:40 AM
  #114
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You know you are the kings of unluckiness when JJ is -2 and his partner is +1. Unbelievable.
What's so unbelievable ? With the 1st ES goal Johnson just gave the puck away and with the 2nd ES goal he didnt look out of place but couldnt stop Selanne either.

There's a reason he's called Jack Minus Forever Johnson.

Johnson has played pretty good lately but you constantly make it sound like the guy is so 'unlucky'. This is not the first time. Call me biased or everyone who sees his defensive lapses, but take a good look into the mirror for once.


Great win.

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11-18-2011, 05:00 AM
  #115
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What a way to sweep the home and home. Goals from all the right people. I like this.

Quick actually had a pretty good game despite giving up 3.

I like what this team looks like. Next!

And lol@3 Stars

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11-18-2011, 05:11 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by TheDankness View Post
Richards is on pace for 65 points, including the cold start (which I think was due to new team + Europe hangover)
plus having Penner on his wing

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11-18-2011, 05:29 AM
  #117
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Richards will be fine, he will end up with 70-75 and continue playing excellent hockey in all three zone. He was gripping the stick a bit early in the year, but I continue to be so impressed with everything he brings to the team. And that line suddenly looks really good when you take Penner and Parse off it and give them a player who can actually make plays.

Very very likable player.

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11-18-2011, 06:08 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Richards will be fine, he will end up with 70-75 and continue playing excellent hockey in all three zone. He was gripping the stick a bit early in the year, but I continue to be so impressed with everything he brings to the team. And that line suddenly looks really good when you take Penner and Parse off it and give them a player who can actually make plays.

Very very likable player.
Yeah, Penner and Parse being hurt seems to be a good thing.

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Old
11-18-2011, 07:28 AM
  #119
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Whenever camera shows Voynov's face up close, I see Kovalchuk in Kings jersey for a moment LOL.

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11-18-2011, 08:26 AM
  #120
Sydor25
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Looking at the NHL.com's ice tracker, I counted 19 of 36 Kings' shots in the scoring zone, a much better 53%. The Ducks had 18 of 38 (47%).

Kings were 17 of 30 at ES (57%), 1 of 4 on the PP (25%) and 1 of 2 SH (50%). The second SH shot was the empty net goal by Richards.


57% at ES is much better than the 33% the Kings had in the first game against the Ducks. No surprise that the Kings scored 4 goals (2 ES goals). Voynov's goal was the only PP shot in the scoring zone. Let's see if the Kings can keep it going against a good team like Detroit. Especially after Detroit just lost 5-2 to San Jose.


As to the comments about trading Martinez because Voynov has had a tremendous 7 game start is bad asset management. The Kings don't need to make any trades until their young defensemen are not waiver exempt. No reason to trade Martinez unless he is part of a much bigger deal, you don't trade him for another 3rd liner that won't score with Murray's system. So if Martinez gets traded and Voynov, Johnson or Doughty gets hurt, who takes their place? Hickey? Muzzin? No thanks, I'd rather keep Martinez and Voynov.

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11-18-2011, 08:51 AM
  #121
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Syd,

You can talk about defensive depth in Manchester all you want, but the fact remains the Kings are not going to win a Stanley Cup with a bottom 6 consisting of Penner, Stoll, Moreau, Lewis, Hunter, Richardson, Clifford etc. The Kings need to add atleast two players for the bottom lines, a 3C capable of playing an all around game and a 3RW who can do the same. The Kings bottom lines are just a disaster.

The Kings have a pretty good team otherwise, and if you have a chip to use to improve the team you should cash it in. DL would be cheating the team by continuing to hope and pray for Penner and Stoll. Neither guy is suited for any role on this team. Moreau in a pinch can be a 4th line player, but he is a liability in a Top 9 role.

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11-18-2011, 09:02 AM
  #122
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Syd,
The Kings have a pretty good team otherwise, and if you have a chip to use to improve the team you should cash it in. DL would be cheating the team by continuing to hope and pray for Penner and Stoll. Neither guy is suited for any role on this team. Moreau in a pinch can be a 4th line player, but he is a liability in a Top 9 role.
Why would another bottom six experiment be any different than the last several tried with Murray as coach? The bottom six players in LA just don't get the scoring chances that other systems allow. The reason they don't score as much in LA is because the Kings have to score with fewer scoring chances and only the top-end skilled guys can do that consistently. This is why you see Kopitar, Richards and Gagne have some success. When was the last time the Kings had a winger like Gagne that could finish on breakaways? He hasn't had very many, but his scoring rate is high. How many breakaways have the bottom 6 had this season? I remember 2 SH ones by Lewis, where are the other ones? The Kings just don't play a riskier style that gets multiple breakaways and out numbered attacks per game. And when they do get an out numbered attack, they don't attack the middle, they spread it out and take it to the boards. Much safer if there is a turnover at the blue line.

Players like Williams and Brown are tweeners here for the same reasons, they just don't get a lot of high quality chances every game. Brown will get 1 or 2 per game and he will hit the post or shoot wide. Williams turns the puck over because he is trying to make plays and the Kings just don't have the style for that to work consistently. That play by Williams at the blue line to free up Scuderi that lead to Kopitar's goal was a thing of beauty. But how many times do the Kings really try that type of play at the blue line? It's a very risky play and could have resulted in a turnover and a quick 2-on-1 or 3-on-1 against. That is not a play that Murray wants to see very much over the course of the season, it's too risky. A high risk and reward play. Murray would rather see it chipped into the corner, recovered and sent to the point for a shot through traffic.

You can't expect bottom six guys to finish at a high percentage rate. Doesn't matter who Dean acquires to fill in for Moreau, Stoll or Penner. Uness they have the skill level of a Gagne, Richards or Kopitar, the won't score 15+ goals from the 3rd line.


Last edited by Sydor25: 11-18-2011 at 10:08 AM.
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11-18-2011, 09:11 AM
  #123
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I really hate how we get a lead and TM automatically tells everyone to back off. It just doesn't work in the NHL. That is how team get momentum and give themselves a chance to come back and win.
Did you overhear the coach telling the team to back off?

Or did you overlook the extra jump the Ducks picked up after the Kings squandered that 4 minute PP?

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11-18-2011, 09:31 AM
  #124
Sydor25
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Originally Posted by Lars H View Post
Did you overhear the coach telling the team to back off?

Or did you overlook the extra jump the Ducks picked up after the Kings squandered that 4 minute PP?
This I agree with. Murray is not to blame for the let down after the Kings get a lead. There is a reason that the 2 goal lead is called the worst lead in hockey. It's human nature to ease up and play a little too conservative when getting a 2 goal lead, especially getting a 4 minute PP. I would have been very happy if Murray actually called a timeout to fire up the team going into the 4 minute PP, but then I remember that Murray would just stand there stoic and the same snooze fest PP would have taken place. It's a good sign that the Kings tend to get the goal back on the rare occasions that they lose a third period lead and win when leading after 2.

Aren't they like 65-0-3 the past few season with a lead going into the third? That's one thing Murray's system is good for. If you give the Kings a lead into the third, it's very hard to break down Murray's conservative system.


Last edited by Sydor25: 11-18-2011 at 09:40 AM.
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11-18-2011, 09:41 AM
  #125
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Where does what come from?

The guy clearly favors veteran players over younger players. How else can you explain how much icetime guys like Moreau and Stoll get, especially on the PP. Loktionov should clearly be on the PP over both guys.
Murray has shown he's willing to give the youngsters important minutes over the years ... Clifford, Simmonds, Doughty.

He matched up the youngsters last night against the best the Ducks had to offer.

And while we're singing the youngsters praises -- which are well deserved -- let's not overlook the bobbles. Loktionov occasionally looked out of place when the Ducks got on the cycle (eh, so did everyone else) and committed a tough turnover right at the Kings' blue line which lead to more Ducks zone time and a scoring chance. Voynov got himself into trouble a couple three times, too. It happens. Murray still gave them the minutes.

As for Loktionov not playing on the Power Play; yeah, that seems odd.

But let's give the coach the benefit of the doubt -- after all he has coached 1000+ NHL games -- and ask why he might make that decision.

The first unit is producing well, so there's no room for Loktionov there.

On the second unit the team has got Stoll and Voynov/Martinez (iirc) on the points, with Moreau/Hunter, Williams and Gagne up front.

Williams, Gagne, and Voynov/Martinez aren't going anywhere. That leaves Moreau/Hunter and Stoll.

Can Loktionov play the point and win faceoffs? Better than the current option does?

Can he stand in front of the crease and screen/deflect/recover pucks? Better than the current options do?

Probably not.

So in order to get Loktionov into the mix, they'd need to restructure the personnel (if you trade out Stoll, you need another D on the point. Do you split up Doughty and JJ? Do you give Mitchell more minutes?) and/or restructure the system (take away Moreau/Hunter and you probably don't ask Williams or Gagne to go to the crease since that wastes their talents and now you've got a new look for everyone to figure out and adjust to).

So it's more than just swapping Loktionov in for one or the other underperforming guys. And maybe it explains why we haven't seen him there yet.

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