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Veteran keeps plugging away, hoping the Habs might need him

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Old
11-18-2011, 10:57 AM
  #51
ThaDevilGirl
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Don't bother Brad, you will just get crushed by this little click of people who think any form of toughness in hockey should be banned.
Nobody wants toughness to be banned, but at least get decent players. Henry isn't. He might be good for the AHL but if he was good for the NHL he'd be here, not in Hamilton.

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11-18-2011, 11:00 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Yeah, that's what it is.
I just find it really tough to understand how if another poster here has an opinion that differs from your own. You get all upset. As though you guys know everything about hockey, when in fact most of you here don't have 1/100 the experience i have in hockey, albeit in minor hockey. And i am not saying i know everything, trust me i don't. But i actually do know alot about hockey. So, if i have an opino that differs from yours, don't get upset. Just agree to disagree.

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11-18-2011, 11:02 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
You would think we had the best D core in the league based on the comments in this thread.
so true.

No reason to try anything different at all.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:02 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
Nobody wants toughness to be banned, but at least get decent players. Henry isn't. He might be good for the AHL but if he was good for the NHL he'd be here, not in Hamilton.
You don't think he could be as affective as St-Denis, seriously ? He would only be taking Gill's position. That can't be that tough really.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:03 AM
  #55
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In the past I agree, he should have been given somewhat of a chance. Especially over a guy like Picard.

Today, the only way he gets a chance is if another D gets injured tomorrow and nobody else is set to return yet. In the off-season, Gauthier went out and signed some D that were immediately above Henry on the depth chart (i.e. Emelin, Diaz, Campoli). I don't see myself preferring to give Henry a shot over signing any of those three, simply based on the fact that they are better than he is.

St-Denis got called up because he is better than Henry, at least this season he has been. If Henry was doing better, I'd have no problem with it. This year it is about who is where on the depth chart and St-Denis just so happens to be a step above Henry, hence he got called up first.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:16 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
I just find it really tough to understand how if another poster here has an opinion that differs from your own. You get all upset. As though you guys know everything about hockey, when in fact most of you here don't have 1/100 the experience i have in hockey, albeit in minor hockey. And i am not saying i know everything, trust me i don't. But i actually do know alot about hockey. So, if i have an opino that differs from yours, don't get upset. Just agree to disagree.
Seriously? Re-read your own post:

Quote:
Don't bother Brad, you will just get crushed by this little click of people who think any form of toughness in hockey should be banned.
I just outlined for you very clearly where I think Henry's position is in our depth chart in relation to not being called up yet, and you instead took the opportunity to dismiss everyone against calling up Henry as some kind of "anti-toughness clique", which I specifically said it had nothing to do with...and then you can't figure out why someone would take exception to that. Get real.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:20 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Seriously? Re-read your own post:



I just outlined for you very clearly where I think Henry's position is in our depth chart in relation to not being called up yet, and you instead took the opportunity to dismiss everyone against calling up Henry as some kind of "anti-toughness clique", which I specifically said it had nothing to do with...and then you can't figure out why someone would take exception to that. Get real.
Just keep flipping it back and forth, we could do this all day, i guess.



Strangely enough the same posters were the ones in the toughness thread always downplaying it. I am real.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:22 AM
  #58
Crimson Skorpion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Just keep flipping it back and forth, we could do this all day, i guess.



Strangely enough the same posters were the ones in the toughness thread always downplaying it. I am real.
Apples and oranges, Prez. You can't take someone's opinion on two different matters and combine them together to formulate one general opinion on one matter. It doesn't work that way.

I believe the Habs could use a little more toughness. I don't believe Habs should have called up Henry yet. Am I an exception to the rule you have or am I just a guy with an opinion on two different situations. Think about it.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:30 AM
  #59
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I think Henry would have had higher chances cracking the NHL as a 4th liner/enforcer than a D. His lack of mobility and hockey sense is too big a handicap to compensate for with toughness and leadership skills. There are a few coaches in this league who might be willing to live with the incredible effort it would take to insulate him from any kind of talent or, just speed really, because they highly value intimidation and physical play. But Martin is the opposite of these coaches, so he has no shot. I think it'd be best for him to change organization (or hop on the fire JM bandwagon).

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11-18-2011, 11:31 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Apples and oranges, Prez. You can't take someone's opinion on two different matters and combine them together to formulate one general opinion on one matter. It doesn't work that way.

I believe the Habs could use a little more toughness. I don't believe Habs should have called up Henry yet. Am I an exception to the rule you have or am I just a guy with an opinion on two different situations. Think about it.
Henry is actually the only form of toughness we have that could play on the NHL level as a 7th defenseman. I have nothing against St-Denis. I am a proud Quebecois also, but i just don't find the timing ( call up ) matches the needs. I am not attacking anyone by any means, not what i want at all. I am just stating my opinion about the fact that we have 4 regular defenseman out, that after hearing Dan say that Henry wasn't far behind St-Denis in Hamilton that for me ( again i say me ) he
( Henry ) was the logical call up. Maybe after tonights game at the Bell, there will be some switching around. We will see i guess.

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11-18-2011, 11:31 AM
  #61
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For the record, I'm not "against" calling up Henry...I'm against giving him favoritism in a call-up because he can throw a check or start a fight. I'd like us to ice the best possible line-up with what's available to us, whether they have 200 PIMs or 2.

I'm in favor of calling him up when we're exhausted the rest of our options ahead of him on the depth chart. Which, to my understanding, is what we've done.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:32 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
You don't think he could be as affective as St-Denis, seriously ? He would only be taking Gill's position. That can't be that tough really.
Only? You underestimate Gill's impact on this team methinks.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:35 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
Only? You underestimate Gill's impact on this team methinks.
Yes he is good on the PK kill. I agree 100%. Sorry if i can't give him any other credit besides having NHL experience and being a leader. But those can't count, because i was told they don't count for Henry.

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11-18-2011, 11:41 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
For the record, I'm not "against" calling up Henry...I'm against giving him favoritism in a call-up because he can throw a check or start a fight. I'd like us to ice the best possible line-up with what's available to us, whether they have 200 PIMs or 2.

I'm in favor of calling him up when we're exhausted the rest of our options ahead of him on the depth chart. Which, to my understanding, is what we've done.
I'm of the opinion it takes varied and complementary ingredients to make a good dish, so in that sense, I'd say his attributes and what we currently have on the team means I would have been willing to give him a shot ahead of St-Denis, regardless of his inferior skillset. But a player like Henry has no business on a healthy lineup unless you're a bottom feeder.

For the record I'm also becoming very tired of the petty wars (not directing this at you) between pro and con crowds on these boards. Every time somebody has an opinion he's either drinking kool-aid or hating. Grow up people for f-sakes.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:44 AM
  #65
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The only reasonable debate here is St. Denis or Henry. The rest was fine without question. Do I care per se? Not really. When an injury is swiped off the list, odds are st denis is back and neither would 'stick'.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:45 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Yes he is good on the PK kill. I agree 100%. Sorry if i can't give him any other credit besides having NHL experience and being a leader. But those can't count, because i was told they don't count for Henry.
Gill plays around ~18 minutes a game, 5 on 5 and PK. It avoids a guy like Emelin to play that many minutes because he's not ready yet. One day he'll get more comfortable and take over but at the moment he can't play that much. That's why Gill and Spacek are still useful. Henry is nowhere near Gill in that department.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:53 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Don't bother Brad, you will just get crushed by this little click of people who think any form of toughness in hockey should be banned.
"Someone had some constructive argument to deny my claims and since I can't offer up any other arguments other, I'll just play the victim card."

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
I just find it really tough to understand how if another poster here has an opinion that differs from your own. You get all upset. As though you guys know everything about hockey, when in fact most of you here don't have 1/100 the experience i have in hockey, albeit in minor hockey. And i am not saying i know everything, trust me i don't. But i actually do know alot about hockey. So, if i have an opino that differs from yours, don't get upset. Just agree to disagree.
"You didn't refute my claims, you attacked my right to form an opinion!" (Completely false)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Just keep flipping it back and forth, we could do this all day, i guess.



Strangely enough the same posters were the ones in the toughness thread always downplaying it. I am real.
"You effectively offered good arguments, but since I've played the victim card already, I'll just call you out on making me the victim!"

---

Prez I just hope you realize that you are taking this personally when hototogisu was only argumenting on the subject. By telling others not to bother, you are showing that you are the one who refuses to accept that others have a different opinion that you. Some people don't want Henry on the Habs for good reasons, and presenting these reasons is exactly the exercise we practice on these boards.

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Old
11-18-2011, 12:35 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Do you think our management is completely oblivious to the fact that Henry has NHL experience, or what?

Obviously it was taken into consideration, and obviously it was decided it wasn't an important enough factor to give him the call over St-Denis.

When we win a game, somehow nobody has a problem with the St-Denis call-up. Now that we lost a game, it was so clearly the wrong choice and how stupid could we have been for leaving Henry and his wealth of experience in the minors and so on.
The fact that we have gone 7-3-1 after the worst start in 70 years and so many injuries to boot is amazing. The entire Habs lineup looks like a patch work quilt on most nights and still our team and coaching staff have managed to remain competitive and still it is not enough. I was happy with the game last night and with the exception of Coles near miss in the first and the bad break deflection goal off PKs stick and its a win for us. No team in the NHL has had to deal with more injuries than us and I think for once people should realize that our team is doing ok. I dont think we are an elite team by any means, but I am happy with where we are despite all of the other business that the team has gone through. P.S Alex who?

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Old
11-18-2011, 12:43 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
You don't think he could be as affective as St-Denis, seriously ? He would only be taking Gill's position. That can't be that tough really.
I doubt Henry could be as good as St-Denis, as he's only been the 2nd best D in Hamilton because of how bad it's been for the rest. St-Denis is way better then Henry in the AHL imo, as St-Denis last season was the Dogs best D all round imo and is again this year. Henry's problems are that he is easily beaten to the outside, same problem Komisarek had when he was here but worse.

St-Denis has been improving by a good bit each year since he was signed to an AHL contract in '08, but my concern for him has always been his lack of strength. If he was much stronger he could easily be an NHLer as he's smart and hard working plus a very good shot blocker and puck mover for the Dogs. I'm not saying he's on the skill level of say a defensive version of Desharnais (since both went undrafted out of the Q due to being undersized, signed by the Dogs to AHL contracts before playing so well that they got NHL ELC's) as Desharnais was one of the best players hands down in the AHL last year, St-Denis imo is one of the better defensemen in the AHL. Desharnais is showing that size can be overrated, hard to say what will become of St-Denis but presonally I wouldn't write him off if he can find a way to overcome his lack of size/strength. It's worked for DD as he can feed the puck as good as anyone but for St-Denis he's likely always going to have trouble moving guys from the crease.

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Old
11-18-2011, 01:48 PM
  #70
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He's extremely slow and has trouble moving the puck up to the forwards. Some people may argue that this sound like Gill, but I actually think gill's puck moving abilities are underrated.

These are the skills that are holding him back.

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Old
11-18-2011, 03:10 PM
  #71
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No, no we no call up Henry. He is physical, we might be like Bruins. Goon team. We do not want to be physical we are Montreal Canadien. Flying Frenchmen. We don't need to have tough players like other teams. League will adapt to us. Not other way around. We have more cups than all others. We want only to play positional hockey with little fast guys. Players that no take risks. No entertainment or character on this team please. Henry is not fast guy. We need more Diaz and less Quintal. Throw Yemelin away too. He tries to take bodies. Could get out of position. You see what Blunden do. Throw hit and get in fight and we lose game probably from his actions. Send him away. Not type of fourth liner for my liking. Get big tall Swede in here. He very vanilla and not get out of position.

Not sure why I'm typing this as if the Cookie Monster were dictating it for me but man, the end of the Gauthier/Martin era and philosophy can not come quick enough for me.

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Old
11-18-2011, 04:45 PM
  #72
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Of course Martin doesn't want anything to do with a tougher call up. He sent Blunden packing as soon as he could justify it (after TWO fights on the same stoppage of play, my GAWD), but useless Darche and The Mexican Alaskan get powerplay minutes and add nothing to the team.

Fire Martin.

Add toughness, size, and some emotion behind the bench.

Henry would be much more of an addition for the Bruins game than St Denis.

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Old
11-18-2011, 05:43 PM
  #73
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Alex Henry should have been given a shot. Look at the guys who have played D for the Habs over the last 3 years. Give me a break.

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Old
11-18-2011, 06:58 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
how did Brock Trotter clear waivers? and we trade him for Nokey

how did Mathieu Carle clear waiver and we traded him to Ducks .


Why did Curtis Sanford clear waivers , and buried in Hammertown for how many years by Habs?
This is another one i always thought could play in Montreal and be our BACKUP in Montreal.

Anyways Now back in NHL ,played great last night in a 2-1 loss ...
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=602093&print=true


Why did Darche keep clearing waivers all those years? even cleared with Montreal in 2009

Now on Habs
we didnt trade him to the Ducks...

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Old
11-18-2011, 07:13 PM
  #75
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we didnt trade him to the Ducks...
The Habs traded him for Mitera.

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