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The Fire Murray/Carlyle Thread (Edit: Carlyle Fired)

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Old
11-17-2011, 07:59 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
maybe we should stop trying to make a third scoring line and go back to more of a shutdown type. Carlyle seems incapable of putting together a third scoring line.

that said Jeff Carter just asked for a trade. Would anyone here move Holland++ for him?
Hell no! Cause they will want to much for Carter and with an attitude to demand a trade is bad locker room presence in general.

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11-17-2011, 08:00 PM
  #77
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Depends on what the ++ is. But i would move Holland for him def. On the surface is seems that we will have no depth at all adding his salary. I think have a great top 6 would bring more success and butts in the seats, allowing our owners to open the wallet.

Getz-Perry
Carter-Ryan

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Old
11-17-2011, 08:12 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 2faded View Post
Getz-Perry
Carter-Ryan
Etem-Getz-Perry
DSP-Carter-Ryan

I can see that.

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Old
11-17-2011, 08:15 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
I was referring more to bottom 6 players he's been given which Weight isn't but if we include everybody, Doug Weight is about the only guy who comes to mind who was significantly better elsewhere than here. Ryan Whitney as well but the verdict is still out on whether he can maintain his ridiculous numbers so far in Edmonton.

Cogliano it's still too early to say, although he regressed every year in Edmonton before coming here too. Christensen put up virtually all of his numbers on a line with Gaborik, he's generally played the same 4th line/healthy scratch/occasional top 6 role there that he did in Anaheim.

Plenty more players have excelled under him than have gone on and left to do better things. Off the top of my head McDonald, Pahlsson, Moen, Beauchemin are a few of the players who haven't replicated their success elsewhere.
Moen has actually put up better offensive numbers with the Canadiens. With the exception of the Cup year Pahlsson has had similar production to with the Ducks (I don't watch them enough to comment on his defensive play). Shannan has been better in Ottawa. Thornton has been better in Boston. O'Donnell, Pronger, SOB, Rome have all had careers which were just fine elsewhere. As to MacDonald, the concussions and a lack of a HOF player on his wing have had an effect on his numbers, and he scored a lot of points with Selanne IGNORING what Carlyle wanted them to be doing.

Again, I'm not belittling Carlyle. But he gets the most out of one type of player. But great coaches don't start every single year with a team starting slow, not playing within the system, and with the obligatory GM statement that the players will be shipped out before the coach. And the Ducks do.

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Old
11-17-2011, 08:19 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
that said Jeff Carter just asked for a trade. Would anyone here move Holland++ for him?
Thought about it when I heard it as well. Looked up his salary and got turned off pretty quickly. Guy will be making $7m pretty soon.

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Old
11-17-2011, 08:49 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
maybe we should stop trying to make a third scoring line and go back to more of a shutdown type. Carlyle seems incapable of putting together a third scoring line.

that said Jeff Carter just asked for a trade. Would anyone here move Holland++ for him?
If we weren't a budget team then I would. It gives us one of the best 1-2 punches down the middle for the forseeable future (provided Getzlaf re-signs).

Obviously our budget will always get in the way of us taking on a contract like Carters though.

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Old
11-17-2011, 08:51 PM
  #82
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Ya I looked that up as well. It's too bad that we care more about salary than cap hit because ~5.2 would be a good cap hit for a star player to build the 2nd line around for a long time. Problem is that contract is very long. Too long.

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Old
11-17-2011, 08:53 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Again, I'm not belittling Carlyle. But he gets the most out of one type of player. But great coaches don't start every single year with a team starting slow, not playing within the system, and with the obligatory GM statement that the players will be shipped out before the coach. And the Ducks do.
I'm not saying Carlyle is an amazing coach. I'm just saying that I put more of the blame on Murray not providing him with good enough/the right style of players.

I could care less if Carlyle is fired but I would rather see Murray go first. If the new GM wants to bring in a new coach then so be it, so long as they are on the same page and can provide our top end guys with the support they need to make us a good team again.

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Old
11-17-2011, 09:01 PM
  #84
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Oh I put more of the blame on Murray as well. But, there's just no way he is going to build a whole new bottom 6. And I dont think he is being given the budget to do that anyways.

So that leaves us with players that arent fit for the coaches system and a system that is horrible for puck possession. And, a coach that seems unwilling or unable to run a different system.

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Old
11-17-2011, 09:05 PM
  #85
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Hell no to Carter. We're already complaining our lineup is soft, perimeter, inconsistent. He would make all that worse.

We're a budget team. Our top players need to produce, and to be able to make their linemates better. Getzlaf and Perry do that. Ryan meh. Carter is the opposite.

He skates really fast and has a wicked shot. He's also a former 1st rounder. I guess I could see Murray being interested.

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Old
11-17-2011, 09:27 PM
  #86
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Carter is awesome defensively too. I've seen plenty of him in Philly and he's the type of guy who excels doing it all his own line. He's getting a bit underrated around hfboards. Although I agree about his salary. If we were a cap team I would want Murray to be all over it but we're not so there's no chance in hell we get him.

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Old
11-17-2011, 09:56 PM
  #87
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I'm not sure I'd say awesome, but yes he is quite good defensively. I just didn't mention it since it isn't an attribute Murray seems to care about.

I just think he's a selfish player. Although the "being able to do it by himself" is a valid point, I guess that means you could have 2 cheap wingers with him and get still good production. Might actually make a whole 2nd line affordable for our budget despite his high individual salary.

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Old
11-17-2011, 10:16 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
Although the "being able to do it by himself" is a valid point, I guess that means you could have 2 cheap wingers with him and get still good production. Might actually make a whole 2nd line affordable for our budget despite his high individual salary.
Well that's what I was thinking. I especially think you can get more out of pairing weak wingers with good centres than vice versa. Which kind of contradicts our roster which is has three of the top wingers in the league but only has Getzlaf who can carry a line in the middle.

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Old
11-17-2011, 10:35 PM
  #89
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A guy who has been traded once for locker room/attitude issues who asks for a trade >20 games with his new team who is signed for the next million years....no thanks.

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Old
11-17-2011, 11:40 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
A guy who has been traded once for locker room/attitude issues who asks for a trade >20 games with his new team who is signed for the next million years....no thanks.
signs long term contract with good team that he loves

traded and now is on the worst team in the league.. guy wants to win.. don't really blame him

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11-17-2011, 11:50 PM
  #91
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woopz

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Old
11-18-2011, 12:07 AM
  #92
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What ever happened to "one pass and out of the zone"? I could have sworn that was Carlyle's mantra during the Cup season. All these little cute behind the net, spin around passes are just stupid and begging to be picked off. This whole season it's been even more apparent. This team is full of dumb players. Make the hard stuff (except goals) look easy but make the easy stuff look hard. Frustrating as hell to say the least.

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Old
11-18-2011, 12:18 AM
  #93
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Bob doing a major "Flyers" shake up is more possible than booting Carlyle but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have balls to even do that. He is just sitting in the stool and praying that this team turns it around. Maybe doing some little (bargain) moves.

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Old
11-18-2011, 01:01 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by TeMoZ View Post
What ever happened to "one pass and out of the zone"? I could have sworn that was Carlyle's mantra during the Cup season. All these little cute behind the net, spin around passes are just stupid and begging to be picked off. This whole season it's been even more apparent. This team is full of dumb players. Make the hard stuff (except goals) look easy but make the easy stuff look hard. Frustrating as hell to say the least.
I noticed that a lot tonight. When they reverse the puck deeper into the zone, time and time again, I just cover my eyes.

This team is sooooo bad at passing. I think some of you guys mentioned it before, but seriously, it's like watching my little brother's peewee games.

I'm not sure RC should be axed, but I'm astonished that RPG keeps doing the same ****ing thing game after game. Shake it up, or just tank because this team is horrible.

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Old
11-18-2011, 10:39 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
A guy who has been traded once for locker room/attitude issues who asks for a trade >20 games with his new team who is signed for the next million years....no thanks.
My point exactly

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11-18-2011, 11:45 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Jesus Teemu View Post
I noticed that a lot tonight. When they reverse the puck deeper into the zone, time and time again, I just cover my eyes.

This team is sooooo bad at passing. I think some of you guys mentioned it before, but seriously, it's like watching my little brother's peewee games.

I'm not sure RC should be axed, but I'm astonished that RPG keeps doing the same ****ing thing game after game. Shake it up, or just tank because this team is horrible.
Carlyle needs blame for this reason alone. And i said it yesterday before the game. When our team cant even pass good, that's on the coaching. Make them practice passing every practice if you have to.

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11-18-2011, 12:46 PM
  #97
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Have to agree with the point on bad passing. Too many errant cross-ice attempts and far too many times passing the puck backwards into the defensive zone when they should be moving forward. They look confused and timid, and that falls at Carlyle's doorstep.

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11-18-2011, 01:03 PM
  #98
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Carlyle needs blame for this reason alone. And i said it yesterday before the game. When our team cant even pass good, that's on the coaching. Make them practice passing every practice if you have to.
How is poor passing on the coach? Is he a basic skills coach? I imagine these guys have been passing the puck since they were 6 or so.

Again, the coach can't score the goals for them. He can't make them not fumble at the last second, he can't make them not be so anxious that they shoot high or wide of an open net. He has to give them the systems and tools to fall back on. I think the players would admit that he's done that. But he can't wrap his arms around them and put his hands on theirs like the Patrick Swayze to their Demi Moore, and beat a goaltender.

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Old
11-18-2011, 01:48 PM
  #99
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(groan) Passing is a fundamental skill. If players are passing poorly, it's not because they don't know how to pass. It's because they are making poor mental decisions, or just being sloppy.

And players do practice passing every practice. Pretty much every multi-player drill involving the puck requires passing.

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Old
11-18-2011, 02:08 PM
  #100
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Cogliano actually looks good on the second line its to early to write him off he clearly adds something to the team...

I'd like to see Holland up as the permanent 3rd line center for the year. Same for Palmieri these guys can help us now, put them with a veteran, maybe Hagman and ride the kids out unless they show they cant play.

Send down Mcmillan to find his game.

if we dont get a spark from the kids then you look at a big time trade or you wait til the trade deadline and start moving vets.

Koivu, Lydman, Visnosvky, Blake, Beauchemin...all would have value

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