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Old
11-18-2011, 09:09 AM
  #151
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
I am not offended, just pointing out with bolded text that you do not understand the purpose of the OP, which of course was to offer himself as an oasis of perspective in a desert of insanity.

Unfortunately we're not in the Desert of Insanity we're travelling the Strait of Mediocrity and some people see the need to change tour guides.
Andy understood my point about a milion times more than you did, but I guess you are going to tell me that I did not even understand my own point now?

I said most (note: most, not all) fans criticize the team at every opportunity, which is true. Did I say some of the criticism was not warranted? No. But some isn't.
I also said we heard it all, which is true. Almost every member of this organization as been wished fired or traded.
I said we post a nice record in this current stretch, yet some still discuss our team as it is doome to fail. Which is also true of some posters.
If you dont consider yourself to fallinto any of these categories, then fine. There are plenty of people that criticize this team, including myself, that do not feel attacked. What is so different about them and you?

Do not tell people that they did not understand me when they did.

If you feel this team is mediocre, then fine. You are entitled to your opinion, but that was the point here. To show that things are getting back on track and this without our injuries. But if you refuse to even think that things migt not be as bleak as you think, then you have every right to believe it. The problem starts when you start inventing stuff about what I might have meant just because you disagree, which is extremely childish.

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11-18-2011, 10:19 AM
  #152
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perspective: if you blame the habs for losing against the islander, then you have to praise them when they beat teams like philly and boston.

today's game? **** happens. defense was a wreck, budaj was bad, martin gave gomez too much rope again. offense was good, powerplay seems to slowly be getting out of it's funk, subban rocked.

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11-18-2011, 11:19 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The mere defense of these people when you didn't attack them in the first place shows that THEY are aware of the game they play on these boards.

All you said was cheer up. Appearntly this is the most controversial thing you could have ever said. Cheer up!? you're a koolaid drinker and you are attacking us!
That's not all he said. If he did, everyone would just sing Koombaya...

Why are you calling out others on reading comprehension here?
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The best part is that even Kriss has been criticizing certain things he's seen in some games, so I doubt he'd be telling other people that they weren't allowed to criticize.
Yeah, he would. He'd just be subtle about it and give hiself plausible deniability.
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Yes, I'm sure Kriss intended to come in as the saviour. The only people making this an issue are the people who feel defended. Kriss said even when playing well they can't escape some of the ridiculous criticism. they've been getting..which is true...do you want to dispute that...please do.

He then said in the second bolded part that despite the winning streak, people are still acting like this team is destined to fail..
Actually what he did was group all the criticisms together and then dismissed it as irrational.

As far as being 'offended' goes... nah. It's a message board and it's just for kicks. I can't figure out why some folks blow a gasket the way they do on here. One guy on this forum PM'd me with hate mail because I wasn't positive enough... THOSE people (and fortunately they are few and far between) are the ones who really need to sit back and get some perspective.

Anyways, the way I read this thread (and I think this goes for a lot of people) though is that its a poorly disguised shot at those who he deems haven't been 'positive' enough. Did he explicitly say this? No. But it's not hard to read between the lines.

See... that's where that whole 'reading comprehension' thing comes into play. The writer doesn't have to explicitly say something for you to get his point. And sometimes the writer will leave things ambigous enough to give himself plausible deniability.

As for those who've replied here with a 'guilty conscience'... there's nothing to feel guilty about. But we know who that post was written to... and it didn't need to have our names on it. As I wrote above, we can read between the lines.
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Seems like the only comprehension problem here is on your part since you read what you wanted to. It doesn't clearer than that. "We've been winning, but listening to the fans, you'd think they were the worst team"

Why is that controversial for you?

He's been accused of being a koolaid drinker, he's been accused of attacking people who criticize, yet he hasn't done any of these. The comprehension problem falls on them.
I've long believed Kriss IS a "Kool-Aid drinker". That's not a personal shot at him btw, I think it's fine for folks to support the team and quite frankly I'm glad guys like him are around because otherwise it would be a darkly depressing place to be without those types of guys here. But I do think he spins things towards the positive (and I think he takes it too far.)

Folks like him and Mathman (a guy who I argue with all the time but consider an excellent poster) work hard to show the positive side of the club that maybe some others might miss. And that's a good thing. Sometimes I think they stretch their arguments beyond the limit of common sense but I know they feel that way about me sometimes as well. And that's okay... maybe they see things that I don't. Reasonable people can disagree on stuff.

What I don't like about Kriss' posts though is that too often he comes out and tries to squelch discussion on critical discussions about the club. If there's a thread on "Can the Habs win a cup in five years" he'll be there to say we shouldn't even talk about it.... (I hardly think he'd be saying that we shouldn't discuss it if we had say... Pittsburgh's roster.) And now we have this thread which frames a debate between the 'irrational folks' who criticize the team and the folks who look at things the 'right way'. Sorry, but he's grouped all the criticisms of the club together and basically dismissed it as irrational.

Its a silly way to frame a debate and that's why he's being called out on it.

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Old
11-18-2011, 11:40 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
You are right that there is no one rule - there are differences withing the "fans". Scientists (sport psychology and marketing) already identified and named two of these groups:

- die hard fans = fans who follow/praise their team no matter they are winning or losing.

- fair weather fans = fans who only follow/praise their team when they are winning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_loyalty

So there you are - I think "fair weather fans" is a nicer word than bandwagonners or haters and I'll used it for from now on. It's scientific too, you know.

How can someone consider himself a fan when 90%+ of his posts are bashing the object of his fanaticism....beats me. Must be some sort of perverse relationship.

Also - this discussion is happening in the "let's be positive" thread not in the garbage dump that is the "fire Martin" thread - I don't even go there anymore since I'm too fragile. So let's not even go into which side attacked the other.
I beg to differ. There are tons of "die-hard fans" who criticize because it's deserved, because they're frustrated to see the organization of which they've been "die-hard" followers for 3-4-5 decades, be satisfied (or so it seems, results speaking for themselves) with mediocrity, being in the middle of the pack.

That, in my humble opinion, doesn't make them "fair-weather fans" or "bandwaggoners". You have the wrong definition. "Die-hard" is to stick with the team as a fan through thick and thin and has absolutely nothing to do with criticism. If anything, the criticism shows life experience, knowledge and not drinking the Kool-aid fed by an organization feeding on fans' sheep-like attitude in thinking that management can do no wrong.

Kriss too often comes across in this thread an others as pompous (not saying that he is), thinking that he knows more than others when in reality, he's no better (nor worse) than others. He certainly doesn't know more than I or many others here do, because we disagree with his thoughts.

Simply put, people need to understand that opinions are unique and valid no matter if they differ from ours, good or bad, and respect the opinions and the people having them.

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Old
11-18-2011, 12:15 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I beg to differ. There are tons of "die-hard fans" who criticize because it's deserved, because they're frustrated to see the organization of which they've been "die-hard" followers for 3-4-5 decades, be satisfied (or so it seems, results speaking for themselves) with mediocrity, being in the middle of the pack.

That, in my humble opinion, doesn't make them "fair-weather fans" or "bandwaggoners". You have the wrong definition. "Die-hard" is to stick with the team as a fan through thick and thin and has absolutely nothing to do with criticism. If anything, the criticism shows life experience, knowledge and not drinking the Kool-aid fed by an organization feeding on fans' sheep-like attitude in thinking that management can do no wrong.

Kriss too often comes across in this thread an others as pompous (not saying that he is), thinking that he knows more than others when in reality, he's no better (nor worse) than others. He certainly doesn't know more than I or many others here do, because we disagree with his thoughts.

Simply put, people need to understand that opinions are unique and valid no matter if they differ from ours, good or bad, and respect the opinions and the people having them.
I fall into the 4 decade group longer than many of the fans on here have been alive I follow them win or lose when the HABS are done for the season I am done watching hockey for the season.

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Old
11-18-2011, 02:08 PM
  #156
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I fall into the 4 decade group longer than many of the fans on here have been alive I follow them win or lose when the HABS are done for the season I am done watching hockey for the season.
So you're not really a fan of hockey, more so of the Habs. Do you think someone as attached to something could give out unbiased opinions? Not necessarily talking about hockey or you, but in general. If someone is so infatuated with something, their opinions will usually be biased. So if you love your habs so much, if you followed them forever, if you remember the glorious days, then you will look at today's team and say pfft, they're crap. You will get even more amped up when you start thinking about the fact it's been 18years we haven't won. If you dislike the style of the team, it will add on to your annoyance with this organization as well. So ya, your judgment can be clouded. There is nothing wrong with admitting that and it's not a criticism. Just a simple fact of life.


Our team has been overly criticized since the start of the year. Maybe you, and others, have not read or listened to the things that I have, which simply makes you less informed about the matter that I'm bringing forth. Before you go in a frenzy, I'm not saying you don't know anything, just that maybe you couldn't notice it because you didn't pay attention to it.
To think that I meant nobody can criticize management about anything is completely idiotic and quite frankly, it's scary to even think somebody would assume that's what I was saying. Furthermore, it's twice as scary when those same people will stick to their opinions no matter what I say. It's past stubbornness at this point, it's plain close mindedness or stupidity.
If you say that MaxPac made a mistake on a certain play because he shot it instead of passing it, and I come back to say you're a basher because you hate MaxPac, I'm pretty sure you'd call me crazy. You'd call me nothing more than an idiot if you cleared up that you're only talking about that play and in fact, you love MaxPac, but I stick to what I initially said which is that you're a basher.
The same thing is going on here. I never said people cannot criticize management and I cleared it up on more than one occasion, and yet, still the same people are saying that's what I'm saying. Kinda crazy don't you think??
Yes, I'm saying people have been overly critical in Habs land since the beginning of the year. Will you, and others, dare try to say Habs haven't had their share of criticism and that some might have been unwarranted? Some was warranted, some has been way over the top. Nothing new here.
Are we an average team? Our biggest veteran on D is now Gorges, I think that answers that question. Will we be once the rest of our squad because healthier? That's up for debate. I don't think we'll be a contender, but I think we'd be above average, say a 5-6th spot. If all goes well, then we can be even better and finish at the top of our division, but that would be the best case scenario and expecting that, as much as expecting the worst, is unreasonable. So, a 6th place finish (before the season started) is a safe bet of where the Habs would finish, which is just above average/mediocre. Apparently, that makes me a kool-aid drinker homer.

Whether you like the man, the style and system, or not, Martin has done a good job considering our depleted roster. There are things up for questioning, like why Plekanec is still on the damn PP point, why Gomez was on the ice in the dying seconds (although I'm pretty sure it's because of his Faceoff % yesterday), why is Eller back to getting little ice time, why did he sit back with a 2-0 lead to Buffalo, etc..plenty of questions to ask. Still, overall, considering our roster, I think you can say he did good, or at the very least decent. Yet people are constantly talking about firing him. Personally, I would actually be happy if we replaced him with a more up tempo coach because I feel we are built in order to use speed, which gets a little stifled in a defensive system, but I won't go as far to say Martin deserves to be fired.

I have no problem discussing criticism, opinions or ideas, that's why I'm on a board. Do I think my opinion is better than anybody else's, no. Do I think I'm right in my debates? Of course, and who doesn't? Can/Have I been wrong? Yes. Did I ever have a problem admitting it? No.

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Old
11-18-2011, 03:03 PM
  #157
Protest the Hero
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So is there a word for "fans" who literally post nothing positive ever?

If you're offended by this post that means you're one of these people. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be better, or criticizing a team when it deserves, but I'd hardly call someone who actively wishes his/her favourite team would lose, a fan.

Edit: It's also hard to have any sort of logical argument with people who seriously think Martin and Gauthier hate any physicality whatsoever.


Last edited by Protest the Hero: 11-18-2011 at 03:15 PM.
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Old
11-18-2011, 03:18 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
So is there a word for "fans" who literally post nothing positive ever?

If you're offended by this post that means you're one of these people. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be better, or criticizing a team when it deserves, but I'd hardly call someone who actively wishes his/her favourite team would lose, a fan.

Edit: It's also hard to have any sort of logical argument with people who seriously think Martin and Gauthier hate any physicality whatsoever.
Great post. The truth on all levels here.

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Old
11-18-2011, 04:57 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
So you're not really a fan of hockey, more so of the Habs.
Here we go again...

Aren't you glad 29dryden29 to know that no matter what you've done for so long, unknown to fans here well before the internet existed, is being diagnosed by experts deciding if you're a fan or not? Gotta love it.

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Old
11-18-2011, 05:20 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
So is there a word for "fans" who literally post nothing positive ever?

If you're offended by this post that means you're one of these people. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be better, or criticizing a team when it deserves, but I'd hardly call someone who actively wishes his/her favourite team would lose, a fan.

Edit: It's also hard to have any sort of logical argument with people who seriously think Martin and Gauthier hate any physicality whatsoever.
I would venture to say that if, during the last 5 years of posting, someone has less then 10% of posts carrying at least some positive message about the Habs, than he is more of a 'hater' than a 'fan' - doesn't make sense otherwise.

It's as if you kept insulting your wife over and over, because she's no longer up to your standards as she used to be when she was young....just get a divorce, you'll both be better off. Then you can marry that shiny young pretty Nordiques team that broke your heart a while ago.

I'm probably one of the newest hockey (and habs) followers around these boards - but I feel a lot more of a real fan then a lot of the old timers. I cheer for them whether they lose or win - I accept that Gauthier and Martin know more about the reality of today's NHL than me.

And don't call me a "blind" fan - fanaticism is supposed to be blind by definition.

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Old
11-18-2011, 05:29 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Here we go again...

Aren't you glad 29dryden29 to know that no matter what you've done for so long, unknown to fans here well before the internet existed, is being diagnosed by experts deciding if you're a fan or not? Gotta love it.
Yep I am glad I have dedicated over 40 years of my life to being a HABS fan it makes everything in life better lol. I get a kick out of these people they truly are hilarious. Being a fan as long as I have and seeing what I have seen I think gives me an ability to form an opinion on how this team is doing and the direction it is and has been going for far too long now. I hate that we are basicaly the doormat of the original 6 now it sucks we need to get an organization that wants to be respected again and not one that expects it because we have been around the longest. You want the respect in this game you earn it on the ice and in management etc. We have not been in that situation in a very very long time.

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11-18-2011, 05:33 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
So you're not really a fan of hockey, more so of the Habs. Do you think someone as attached to something could give out unbiased opinions? Not necessarily talking about hockey or you, but in general. If someone is so infatuated with something, their opinions will usually be biased. So if you love your habs so much, if you followed them forever, if you remember the glorious days, then you will look at today's team and say pfft, they're crap. You will get even more amped up when you start thinking about the fact it's been 18years we haven't won. If you dislike the style of the team, it will add on to your annoyance with this organization as well. So ya, your judgment can be clouded. There is nothing wrong with admitting that and it's not a criticism. Just a simple fact of life.


Our team has been overly criticized since the start of the year. Maybe you, and others, have not read or listened to the things that I have, which simply makes you less informed about the matter that I'm bringing forth. Before you go in a frenzy, I'm not saying you don't know anything, just that maybe you couldn't notice it because you didn't pay attention to it.
To think that I meant nobody can criticize management about anything is completely idiotic and quite frankly, it's scary to even think somebody would assume that's what I was saying. Furthermore, it's twice as scary when those same people will stick to their opinions no matter what I say. It's past stubbornness at this point, it's plain close mindedness or stupidity.
If you say that MaxPac made a mistake on a certain play because he shot it instead of passing it, and I come back to say you're a basher because you hate MaxPac, I'm pretty sure you'd call me crazy. You'd call me nothing more than an idiot if you cleared up that you're only talking about that play and in fact, you love MaxPac, but I stick to what I initially said which is that you're a basher.
The same thing is going on here. I never said people cannot criticize management and I cleared it up on more than one occasion, and yet, still the same people are saying that's what I'm saying. Kinda crazy don't you think??
Yes, I'm saying people have been overly critical in Habs land since the beginning of the year. Will you, and others, dare try to say Habs haven't had their share of criticism and that some might have been unwarranted? Some was warranted, some has been way over the top. Nothing new here.
Are we an average team? Our biggest veteran on D is now Gorges, I think that answers that question. Will we be once the rest of our squad because healthier? That's up for debate. I don't think we'll be a contender, but I think we'd be above average, say a 5-6th spot. If all goes well, then we can be even better and finish at the top of our division, but that would be the best case scenario and expecting that, as much as expecting the worst, is unreasonable. So, a 6th place finish (before the season started) is a safe bet of where the Habs would finish, which is just above average/mediocre. Apparently, that makes me a kool-aid drinker homer.

Whether you like the man, the style and system, or not, Martin has done a good job considering our depleted roster. There are things up for questioning, like why Plekanec is still on the damn PP point, why Gomez was on the ice in the dying seconds (although I'm pretty sure it's because of his Faceoff % yesterday), why is Eller back to getting little ice time, why did he sit back with a 2-0 lead to Buffalo, etc..plenty of questions to ask. Still, overall, considering our roster, I think you can say he did good, or at the very least decent. Yet people are constantly talking about firing him. Personally, I would actually be happy if we replaced him with a more up tempo coach because I feel we are built in order to use speed, which gets a little stifled in a defensive system, but I won't go as far to say Martin deserves to be fired.

I have no problem discussing criticism, opinions or ideas, that's why I'm on a board. Do I think my opinion is better than anybody else's, no. Do I think I'm right in my debates? Of course, and who doesn't? Can/Have I been wrong? Yes. Did I ever have a problem admitting it? No.
To be honest the criticism they are getting is not unwarranted at all. If we draft better we have a better farm system so when the issues like injury come up we are better suited to deal with it. When you give a guy a 3 year contract at 5.75 a season and he hasn't plyed more than 20 odd games in 2 years then yes management needs to be called out also. When we have guys sitting on the bench that should clearly be on the ice in certain situations and they play someone who hasn't generated so much as a scoring opprotunity in an entire season almost then coaching needs to be looked at also. Can you point out where the criticism is wrong I think not.

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11-18-2011, 05:47 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
about as much as the thought out critiques of the team are "doom & gloom"... which is to say neither is an accurate description.


so-called "whinning & crying" is no more effective than "blindly praising". I frankly don't think the quality posters on here (wether I agree or disagree with them) practice either "whinning" or "blindly praising"...


it's a message board, obviously there are all kinds of posters... which is why lumping any critical posts about the team as "whinning & crying" is pretty stupid.
Majority of critical posts, IMO, ARE whining and crying, just like the majority of the posts that are supportive of the habs, are usually "blind" (aka not a whole lot of info/knowledge). As we stand right now, for a while now, these boards are flooding with critical posts/threads (judging by massive amount of threads that i see all the time that get moved, closed, im sure the numbers are with me on this one), so a thread telling people to basically chill out on the blind hate, seems fine to me. No where is OP telling you that you need to love your habs and not say a word, unlike most "old timers" here who think that other habs fans should be as disillusioned
(your not part of the team, you do not influence the team, you have no say into teams decisions, being critical does not bring anything more then personal satisfaction and belief that your educating other fans (which is valid, what is not valid is that everyone should do the same) )
as them, and criticize the team so changes happen thanks to the fans involvement! (Hint: you want to make an impact? stop caring about the habs, thats the ONLY thing that the people have over this business.)

Time to enjoy the habs, enjoy these boards, enjoy some heated discussions, and most importantly enjoy life, because IMO there are alot of people who are not and are trying to bring down people with them to their miserable worlds. And that's in general, not only on HF.

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11-18-2011, 05:56 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
To be honest the criticism they are getting is not unwarranted at all. If we draft better we have a better farm system so when the issues like injury come up we are better suited to deal with it. When you give a guy a 3 year contract at 5.75 a season and he hasn't plyed more than 20 odd games in 2 years then yes management needs to be called out also. When we have guys sitting on the bench that should clearly be on the ice in certain situations and they play someone who hasn't generated so much as a scoring opprotunity in an entire season almost then coaching needs to be looked at also. Can you point out where the criticism is wrong I think not.
but but but... it's not JM's fault, he has nothing to work with.

but but but... it's not management's fault, they have to deal with language/taxes/competitive balance.


some people simply fail to realize that there is a massive difference between excellence, and everything else, and it begins with a mindset. making excuses and rationalizing to feel good about mediocrity are the enemy of excellence... be it in sport or in business.

there is a massive difference between talking about winning, and living it. Our organization hasn't lived it in a long time, and some fans are ok with that.

nothing wrong with being ok with mediocrity, to each their own, I just wish they'd stop lecturing about how to be a "real fan" under the assumption that everyone shares such low ambitions.

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11-18-2011, 06:45 PM
  #165
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Yep I am glad I have dedicated over 40 years of my life to being a HABS fan it makes everything in life better lol. I get a kick out of these people they truly are hilarious. Being a fan as long as I have and seeing what I have seen I think gives me an ability to form an opinion on how this team is doing and the direction it is and has been going for far too long now. I hate that we are basicaly the doormat of the original 6 now it sucks we need to get an organization that wants to be respected again and not one that expects it because we have been around the longest. You want the respect in this game you earn it on the ice and in management etc. We have not been in that situation in a very very long time.
We're the doormat of the original six? Perhaps you've forgotten about the Leafs the last 6 years.

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11-18-2011, 06:51 PM
  #166
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We're the doormat of the original six? Perhaps you've forgotten about the Leafs the last 6 years.
Nobody expects anything from the Laffs.

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11-18-2011, 06:59 PM
  #167
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Kriss E from his high horse again, how's the view up there buddy? Oh well, I tried my best but can't read your smug "I and those who agree with me are smart and everyone else is dumb" posts anymore. Best of luck on trying to win the internet.

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11-18-2011, 07:54 PM
  #168
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Thread should be renamed to, Habs Fan Civil War Thread.

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11-18-2011, 08:52 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Tusk View Post
Kriss E from his high horse again, how's the view up there buddy? Oh well, I tried my best but can't read your smug "I and those who agree with me are smart and everyone else is dumb" posts anymore. Best of luck on trying to win the internet.
Wow myself and kriss get into it from time to time and sometimes pretty heated, but what is this all about? I'm gonna have to go back and read the OP again. I must of missed something for this type of reaction.

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11-18-2011, 09:00 PM
  #170
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So, I read it again, guess what? I don't see the big deal about what he said. I'm often critical of management and aspects of the team I don't like and don't see how this post was directed at me or anyone who attempts to rationally evaluate the club.

Where is all this sensitivity coming from? There are some posters on here who won't post when the habs win, and cry about absolutely everything. I think kriss was referencing them and not those who have a valid criticism about the team.

Why haven't the posters who criticize everything been targeted like kriss has here? I guess it's human nature to be angry and negative about everything, even those trying to remain positive.

Have fun ganging up on a poster who made more sense than the majority of those who attack him. I won't bother with this thread anymore.

Good luck kriss, you've got your hands full.

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Old
11-18-2011, 09:20 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
So, I read it again, guess what? I don't see the big deal about what he said. I'm often critical of management and aspects of the team I don't like and don't see how this post was directed at me or anyone who attempts to rationally evaluate the club.

Where is all this sensitivity coming from? There are some posters on here who won't post when the habs win, and cry about absolutely everything. I think kriss was referencing them and not those who have a valid criticism about the team.

Why haven't the posters who criticize everything been targeted like kriss has here? I guess it's human nature to be angry and negative about everything, even those trying to remain positive.

Have fun ganging up on a poster who made more sense than the majority of those who attack him. I won't bother with this thread anymore.

Good luck kriss, you've got your hands full.
Some posters here long maintain they know what's best for this organization and that we're going nowhere.

I'll be laughing along with yourself and Kriss E when we win it all and they find a way to diminish the victory.

I'm out as well.

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Old
11-18-2011, 09:38 PM
  #172
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Sometimes in life it's important to reflect on what we do and what we believe in... Today was that day for me. It was an emotional day, but there was some closure at the end...

It all started when I visited my mom for some chicken soup (flu). Than it dawned on me that she still had a VCR stored away in the closet, and my old tapes. 4 hours later, I relived 1989 (heart breaking) and 1993 .

And then I asked myself -- why am I living in the past ! Why am I sitting at my moms, crying my ass off, soaking my pajamas, absolutely torturing myself !!!

I kept on thinking about Kriss E, and thinking, maybe he is right... maybe I am a spoiled critical terrible unappreciative fan who is stuck in the past. I'm tired of expecting more, i'm tired of thinking because this is the mecca, we are somehow supposed to be ''magically'' better.

I'm tired of counting how many years it's been since we last won... god damn it folks, we should be flipping the calendar to NEXT YEAR... Because if next year doesn't come, than I can assure we'll never win !!!

It's time for change, folks... And I want to take this opportunity to apologize to everyone on here, who I may offended over the years.

Championships aren't given to the habs -- they have to earn it... and they're 1 of 30 teams... nothing more or less, just 1 of 30.

Gomez is here to stay... If Molson buried him our ticket prices would go up. Maybe we can find a team that Gomez can excel in next year. If not, he's ours. I'll support him and cheer him for now on. At the very worst, he's an elite 13th forward.

Markov will return to play and I won't cringe nor hold my breath each time he goes into the corners.

Maybe Moen IS a 20 goal scorer ?

DD, Eller and Plekanec make excellent 2nd line centers.

When I think of a Captain wearing the red, white and blue, I think Gionta.

Of course, there is Subban, Pac, and Price...

I'm not sure what all this means -- whether we have a championship roster in the making our a mediocre one -- but one thing is for sure....

I'm a better fan than I was yesterday !

Today, I'm a LOYAL fan.

TODAY, I CHEER, AND IF I'M NOT CHEERING, I'M CHEERING LOUDER

BECAUSE I'M A HABS FAN, AND THAT'S WHO I AM !!!!


Last edited by coolasprICE: 11-18-2011 at 09:43 PM.
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Old
11-18-2011, 09:54 PM
  #173
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"I can't believe what I just saw"

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Old
11-19-2011, 12:00 AM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I beg to differ. There are tons of "die-hard fans" who criticize because it's deserved, because they're frustrated to see the organization of which they've been "die-hard" followers for 3-4-5 decades, be satisfied (or so it seems, results speaking for themselves) with mediocrity, being in the middle of the pack.

That, in my humble opinion, doesn't make them "fair-weather fans" or "bandwaggoners". You have the wrong definition. "Die-hard" is to stick with the team as a fan through thick and thin and has absolutely nothing to do with criticism. If anything, the criticism shows life experience, knowledge and not drinking the Kool-aid fed by an organization feeding on fans' sheep-like attitude in thinking that management can do no wrong.

Kriss too often comes across in this thread an others as pompous (not saying that he is), thinking that he knows more than others when in reality, he's no better (nor worse) than others. He certainly doesn't know more than I or many others here do, because we disagree with his thoughts.

Simply put, people need to understand that opinions are unique and valid no matter if they differ from ours, good or bad, and respect the opinions and the people having them.
No, some people are just wrong sometimes, but I'll defend their right to post on this board without being bullied or censored.

In my 'old age' I've come to realize that there are bullies, they do exist, and their method is to stop debate, rather than to debate.

It's as old as the hills, look at every nasty political regime that ever was, every one of them uses the method of suppression.

I'm not saying Kriss is that bad of course, not at all. I like that he is positive. I am not generally, but that's what makes it interesting. And we all have to watch the tendency to censor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
I would venture to say that if, during the last 5 years of posting, someone has less then 10% of posts carrying at least some positive message about the Habs, than he is more of a 'hater' than a 'fan' - doesn't make sense otherwise.

It's as if you kept insulting your wife over and over, because she's no longer up to your standards as she used to be when she was young....just get a divorce, you'll both be better off. Then you can marry that shiny young pretty Nordiques team that broke your heart a while ago.

I'm probably one of the newest hockey (and habs) followers around these boards - but I feel a lot more of a real fan then a lot of the old timers. I cheer for them whether they lose or win - I accept that Gauthier and Martin know more about the reality of today's NHL than me.

And don't call me a "blind" fan - fanaticism is supposed to be blind by definition.
Yeah, I'm an old timer and a **** fan. I'm crap. I don't love the Habs, I just realized it. Thank you real fan for opening my eyes. I'm going to switch to the Blue Jackets now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Majority of critical posts, IMO, ARE whining and crying, just like the majority of the posts that are supportive of the habs, are usually "blind" (aka not a whole lot of info/knowledge). As we stand right now, for a while now, these boards are flooding with critical posts/threads (judging by massive amount of threads that i see all the time that get moved, closed, im sure the numbers are with me on this one), so a thread telling people to basically chill out on the blind hate, seems fine to me. No where is OP telling you that you need to love your habs and not say a word, unlike most "old timers" here who think that other habs fans should be as disillusioned
(your not part of the team, you do not influence the team, you have no say into teams decisions, being critical does not bring anything more then personal satisfaction and belief that your educating other fans (which is valid, what is not valid is that everyone should do the same) )
as them, and criticize the team so changes happen thanks to the fans involvement! (Hint: you want to make an impact? stop caring about the habs, thats the ONLY thing that the people have over this business.)

Time to enjoy the habs, enjoy these boards, enjoy some heated discussions, and most importantly enjoy life, because IMO there are alot of people who are not and are trying to bring down people with them to their miserable worlds. And that's in general, not only on HF.
Jeez, that's kind of dark...yeah of course there are lots of downer people in life, but come on, 99% of Habs critics on this board love the team, really enjoy the wins, and just wish we could have more success.

It IS hard to not be frustrated with the Habs when you grew up in the seventies. It just is. But I'm not gonna jump off a bridge, and I don't mind posters who are more positive at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
We're the doormat of the original six? Perhaps you've forgotten about the Leafs the last 6 years.
I was thinking about a new campaign to change the expression 'original six' to 'original five' and leave the Laffs out....hee hee. But in fact the Rags were usually the doormats of the original six, not the Laffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Thread should be renamed to, Habs Fan Civil War Thread.
That's not bad. As the Joker siad: 'Why can't we all just...get along?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
No, some people are just wrong sometimes, but I'll defend their right to post on this board without being bullied or censored.

In my 'old age' I've come to realize that there are bullies, they do exist, and their method is to stop debate, rather than to debate.

It's as old as the hills, look at every nasty political regime that ever was, every one of them uses the method of suppression.

I'm not saying Kriss is that bad of course, not at all. I like that he is positive. I am not generally, but that's what makes it interesting. And we all have to watch the tendency to censor.
Sorry to quote myself. I'll go further. I don't think it's fair to accuse Kriss of trying to censor, and that is not what I was implying in my post. I 'm not as positive as he is, but so what, that's what's fun. Kriss is the wrong target, there are other's on this board who are constantly rude, angry and disrespectful. And personal. Those are the ones who piss me off. But yes, all of us, the Negs and Positives, should watch out that we don't bully. That is what I was trying to say.


Last edited by Mike8: 11-19-2011 at 02:20 AM.
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Old
11-19-2011, 12:46 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
Nobody expects anything from the Laffs.
What about the Rangers? Does being on a hot streak right now change the fact that they haven't won their division or made it past the semifinals at best since 1994? Do you think this current streak is really going to keep up?

Does the fact that the Blackhawks were complete garbage for 2 decades before getting enough draft picks to become a powerhouse make you jealous? I know people from Chicago who don't know what the Blackhawks are because they were so irrelevant during most of their lives.


I really don't get how understanding that the NHL has an unprecedented level of parity between 30 teams (or at least 29...) is settling for mediocrity, but literally throwing away years to stockpile draft picks is not.

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