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If you could go back...

View Poll Results: If you could go back, which of the trades would you do again?
I'd trade Carter for Couturier, Voracek, and Cousins. 43 45.26%
I'd trade Richards for Schenn, Simmonds, 2012 2nd. round pick 2 2.11%
I'd do both trades. 47 49.47%
I'd do neither. 3 3.16%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-19-2011, 02:20 AM
  #26
Readyrock
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It's silly to view them separately, since the fratboys were all being shipped out one way or the other.

Starting with Upshall, Holmgren was intent on uprooting the whole marijuana plant.

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Old
11-19-2011, 02:42 AM
  #27
Beef Invictus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Readyrock View Post
It's silly to view them separately, since the fratboys were all being shipped out one way or the other.

Starting with Upshall, Holmgren was intent on uprooting the whole marijuana plant.
I look forward to seeing your proof that they were hopeless druggies, especially since Homer made a point of saying that wasn't why they were traded.

edit: "because Timmeh and the internet say so" isn't exactly proof, since Timmeh is an idiot.

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Old
11-19-2011, 03:03 AM
  #28
Readyrock
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I look forward to seeing your proof that they were hopeless druggies, especially since Homer made a point of saying that wasn't why they were traded.

edit: "because Timmeh and the internet say so" isn't exactly proof, since Timmeh is an idiot.
It was a joke about their reputation. I don't think there was any inordinate amount of partying going on.

I still think Holmgren had them targeted as carefree fratboys, though.

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Old
11-19-2011, 03:36 AM
  #29
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Definitely would do the Carter trade.
Haven't seen enough of Schenn to decide on the Richards trade.

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Old
11-19-2011, 06:37 AM
  #30
Jimmy Villa
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Originally Posted by Schenn Couturier View Post
Definitely would do the Carter trade.
Haven't seen enough of Schenn to decide on the Richards trade.
It really is as simple as that at this stage. Loved Simmonds in the trade though, he's a born Flyer

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Old
11-19-2011, 08:41 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I look forward to seeing your proof that they were hopeless druggies, especially since Homer made a point of saying that wasn't why they were traded.

edit: "because Timmeh and the internet say so" isn't exactly proof, since Timmeh is an idiot.
I am not saying I think that is why they were traded, but Homer is not going to just announce 'WE TRADED THEMS CUZ THEY PARTIED 2 MUCH"

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Old
11-19-2011, 09:42 AM
  #32
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I think you have to do both trades if the org was going to stick with Lavy long term. You had to allow him to put his type of players in place.

Lavy was passioante about a goal given up in the 2nd period of a game in November while Richards and Carter were laid back about game 81 of the season when the team is still battling for playoff position.

I don't think they partied any more then any other young millionaires. They were leaders of a team that were going to carry the coach's message to the players, that was being done by Pronger, Briere and Kimo. With their NMCs ready to kick they had to choose between what was going to be the demeanor of the team going forward...Lavy's or Richards/Carter...Snider (IMO) told Homer to choose Lavy's.

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Old
11-20-2011, 10:16 PM
  #33
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It's going to be interesting to see how many people will love this team and these trades if they falter in the second half of the season, which is still very possible with the amount of rookies and old people.

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Old
11-21-2011, 10:33 AM
  #34
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I said I'd do both, but I think I would need more information really to adequately make the choice. On paper, I'd probably do it, but maybe not Richards. And I think I would do Carter regardless. But the Richards trade I am not 100% sure on without more information. For instance:

Was he really a good leader? We really only have reports from reporters and some somewhat evasive comments from former teammates that suggest he wasn't a good leader, but as fans we really don't know exactly how much of a leader he was/is.

Was there really that much partying going on? Is this overblown by the media or was it really an issue?

Was there really a rift in the locker room? Its hard to tell if Pronger, Kimmo, and other players didn't really like him or his attitude just going by media reports and former teammate comments.

What effect would no Carter have on him? Maybe Richards would have felt betrayed or something or been mopey or disgruntled without Carter.

The actual answers (i.e. not media speculation or comments from Homer, who IMO would be unlikely to come out and say if these issues really were there) to those questions would be helpful. If the media speculation is true about those things, I'd make the trade. If they weren't, I might not pull the trigger. Richards was my favorite player and his on ice product seemed solid to me. But if there really were unfortunate behind the scenes issues, it may be better to cut him lose. I think Schenn will turn out to be a comparable player to Richards, plus Simmonds and a pick is a solid return. I don't Schenn will be better, and maybe not even as good, but he will be comparable I think. Tough call on Richards.

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Old
11-22-2011, 08:16 AM
  #35
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It's funny that so much attention was given to the offensive production lost from Richards/Carter/Leino... and Versteeg is the one tearing it up.

I would trade Carter and keep Richards. If the locker room/off ice stuff was an issue, I think moving Carter would've been enough of a shakeup. Richards probably would not be happy but I'd imagine he'd get over it...and if not, then you trade him.

I like the additions of Jagr/Bryz/Vorecek/Couturier...but I would take Richards over Simmonds and Schenn most likely...I just think the team would be stronger. Plus I think Richards and Read would make great line mates.

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Old
11-22-2011, 08:29 AM
  #36
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Are we going to micro analyze this trade all year long after every game, shift, goal and assist?

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Old
11-22-2011, 08:32 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
Are we going to micro analyze this trade all year long after every game, shift, goal and assist?
Welcome to HF Boards. People will love these trades until something goes wrong. Then it will be the worst in history. Then when something goes right it will be a great trade (Homer, still being an idiot though). And so forth and so on.

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Old
11-22-2011, 09:29 AM
  #38
Larry44
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I said I'd do both, but I think I would need more information really to adequately make the choice. On paper, I'd probably do it, but maybe not Richards. And I think I would do Carter regardless. But the Richards trade I am not 100% sure on without more information. For instance:

Was he really a good leader? We really only have reports from reporters and some somewhat evasive comments from former teammates that suggest he wasn't a good leader, but as fans we really don't know exactly how much of a leader he was/is.

Was there really that much partying going on? Is this overblown by the media or was it really an issue?

Was there really a rift in the locker room? Its hard to tell if Pronger, Kimmo, and other players didn't really like him or his attitude just going by media reports and former teammate comments.

What effect would no Carter have on him? Maybe Richards would have felt betrayed or something or been mopey or disgruntled without Carter.

The actual answers (i.e. not media speculation or comments from Homer, who IMO would be unlikely to come out and say if these issues really were there) to those questions would be helpful. If the media speculation is true about those things, I'd make the trade. If they weren't, I might not pull the trigger. Richards was my favorite player and his on ice product seemed solid to me. But if there really were unfortunate behind the scenes issues, it may be better to cut him lose. I think Schenn will turn out to be a comparable player to Richards, plus Simmonds and a pick is a solid return. I don't Schenn will be better, and maybe not even as good, but he will be comparable I think. Tough call on Richards.
Don't need any more information than was already given by Homer at the time. They wanted to 'change the culture' of the team and that required trading BOTH Richards and Carter, which is what they did.

We can go over it ad nauseum, but I'd prefer to go back to the REAL mistake the Flyers made - drafting Ricci over Jagr in 1990. I mean, Jagr in '90 and Forsberg in '91 and we would not have needed to gut the team to get Lindros.

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Old
11-22-2011, 09:43 AM
  #39
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This thread shouldn't have been started until 2013 IMO.

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Old
11-22-2011, 12:24 PM
  #40
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I can't tell you about the Carter and Richards trades but I can say I wouldn't have done the Versteeg one.

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11-22-2011, 12:33 PM
  #41
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Don't look now but Carter has 3 goals in his last 2 games. Simmonds isn't much more than a 3rd line player who started strong and has since fizzled. Voracek had a great game against his old team and has been pretty good since but that's it. Couturier was invisible last night and Schenn is still injured while Richards has 2 SHG in 2 games. Is it stupid to base all these guys on a period of about 4 days when they're all young? Yup, just as it's stupid to have this thread come up 20% of the way into the season.

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Old
11-22-2011, 12:45 PM
  #42
zarley zelepukin
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It's interesting how happy everyone seems with this team considering they basically have an 11-9 record. They've hardly been fantastic, but then again some posts on this thread were before the last two losses happened.

As long as this team is trying to win a Cup with Pronger and Timonen leading the defense I'd take Carter and Richards over the players they got back at their current abilities. I thought this team was trying to win right now, which is why I still don't agree with those decisions.

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11-22-2011, 02:58 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
It's interesting how happy everyone seems with this team considering they basically have an 11-9 record. They've hardly been fantastic, but then again some posts on this thread were before the last two losses happened.

As long as this team is trying to win a Cup with Pronger and Timonen leading the defense I'd take Carter and Richards over the players they got back at their current abilities. I thought this team was trying to win right now, which is why I still don't agree with those decisions.
The playoffs are all about good defence and when you have #1 and 1a dmen who are old and broken down and the 20 something dmen can't carry their share, that's a worry. The other problem is the guy with the 9 year contract in net who is showing that the pressure is getting to him.

Also, there is a thread on the LA board about Richards, check out how happy they are with him. They still can't believe he was available.


Last edited by MsWoof: 11-22-2011 at 03:07 PM.
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Old
11-23-2011, 12:06 PM
  #44
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We can go over it ad nauseum, but I'd prefer to go back to the REAL mistake the Flyers made - drafting Ricci over Jagr in 1990. I mean, Jagr in '90 and Forsberg in '91 and we would not have needed to gut the team to get Lindros.
Only if the LeClair/Desjardins trade still occurs.

LeClair - Forsberg - Jagr



Also Richards has not done very poorly this season along with Versteeg (nor Gagne with 14 points in 19 games). Maybe he just did not really fit into our system seeing as he [Versteeg] has put up points before and after his time here.

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Old
11-23-2011, 12:20 PM
  #45
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Both trades were needed and the Flyers are better because of it. Richards had to go, his relationship with the coach turned into locker room poison. Carter had to go because they could pay that much for a soft player that couldn't score when they needed it most.

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Old
11-23-2011, 12:58 PM
  #46
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The "Carter couldn't score when it mattered" argument is hilarious. He led the team in game tying and game winning goals. He beat out Danny "Mr. Clutch" Briere.

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Old
11-23-2011, 01:12 PM
  #47
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Both trades were needed and the Flyers are better because of it. Richards had to go, his relationship with the coach turned into locker room poison.
You got a link for that, Skippy?

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Carter had to go because they could pay that much for a soft player that couldn't score when they needed it most
Uh huh. Jebus, you need to stop reading the crap Timmeh "writes".

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11-23-2011, 02:01 PM
  #48
n62
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You got a link for that, Skippy?
Pay attention.

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Old
11-23-2011, 02:51 PM
  #49
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Pay attention.
To what? Something you've said is fact, without backing it up? Or something some half-assed Philly writer has blogged about?

Please help me to understand.

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Old
11-23-2011, 02:57 PM
  #50
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The "Carter couldn't score when it mattered" argument is hilarious. He led the team in game tying and game winning goals. He beat out Danny "Mr. Clutch" Briere.
Um playoffs?

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