HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Where are the Quebec players?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-19-2011, 05:03 AM
  #1
HabsByTheBay
Registered User
 
HabsByTheBay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Country: United States
Posts: 1,156
vCash: 500
Where are the Quebec players?

I don't live in Quebec, but I thought this was interesting and a little alarming. The number of Quebec players in the league has nosedived, and Quebec - for whatever reason - is clearly behind most Canadian provinces in producing NHL talent.

Quebec has 7.9 million people, more than any other province besides Ontario. Quebec has about 60% of Ontario's population.

In 1993, when Euros and Americans as more than an accessory was still relatively new to the NHL, 103 Quebec-born players saw NHL ice time. About 185 Ontarians saw ice time.

In 2011, 163 Ontarians have seen time, but only 49 Quebecers have played in the NHL.

BC has about 60% of Quebec's population and 37 BC natives have seen time. That's 75% of Quebec's total.

Alberta, which has less than half of Quebec's population, has 58 natives playing in the league. That's 18% more players.

Saskatchewan, which has just over a million people, has 33 players in the league. That's two-thirds of Quebec's total.

Manitoba, which has about as many people as Laval and Longueuil combined, has 24 players in the league. Laval and Longueuil have six players in the league this year.

7 Quebec natives were drafted this year. In 1993, you had 17 in the first 7 rounds (the draft was longer then).

So where the hell has Quebec hockey talent disappeared to? This is important. I think most of us, if not all, want to see Quebec players do well. Quebec born players have obviously been indispensable in the history of the team. There is continuing controversy over the lack of Quebec born players in the team.

It's easy to just say "Well, more Americans/Euros", and to some extent that's true. But other provinces haven't lost anywhere near as many players as Quebec, and other provinces have even increased their talent. They are subject to just as many pressures from other sports (if not more - for example, BC produces a disproportionate amount of Canadian baseball talent and almost all of Canada's good rugby players).

Why? It seems to me that somewhere Quebec hockey is missing a trick.

HabsByTheBay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 06:38 AM
  #2
ClasslessGuy
Registered User
 
ClasslessGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St-Jean, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,272
vCash: 500
2 simple word: Hockey Québec

ClasslessGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 06:46 AM
  #3
The Kremelin Wall*
the krEMELIN wall
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
Most of them retire in junior realizing the Habs only have 25 roster spots.

The Kremelin Wall* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 07:10 AM
  #4
Krnage
Registered User
 
Krnage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fermont
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,860
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Most of them retire in junior realizing the Habs only have 25 roster spots.
they will have a better shot with the bolts

Krnage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 07:36 AM
  #5
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,395
vCash: 500
I think it's probably three things.

1) Quebec has had a bif influx of immigrants. That's true of Ontario & BC but we've increased our population despite the mass exodus of native born Canadians if I'm permitted to call them that. A big immigrant to native ratio. Also, most immigrants are from Francophone countries (Haiti, North Africa) not exactly countries with a history in hockey. Give it a generation or two for the kids to pick up the sport. Alberta, Sask & Manitoba has immigrants bit a lot of them are either Canadians from other provinces or Americans.

2) Many Quebec kids are exploring other sports. Look at the CFL. I think 4 coaches - GMs are from Quebec. that was never the case. Also, Quebec has become a power in short track speed skating.

3) Hockey Quebec.

onice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 07:58 AM
  #6
dutchy29
Registered User
 
dutchy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SIRISAACBROCKVILLE
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,627
vCash: 500
Those are quite disturbing stats, I'd be interested to see the differences between organized hockey in quebec and compare to that of say Alberta. Similar to what other posters have mentioned if the organization is broken then they just won't be able to produce the players. The numbers are down to such a degree that you would hope the province would address it.

dutchy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 08:19 AM
  #7
Habaneros
Habs Cup champs 2010
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsByTheBay View Post
I don't live in Quebec, but I thought this was interesting and a little alarming. The number of Quebec players in the league has nosedived, and Quebec - for whatever reason - is clearly behind most Canadian provinces in producing NHL talent.

Quebec has 7.9 million people, more than any other province besides Ontario. Quebec has about 60% of Ontario's population.

In 1993, when Euros and Americans as more than an accessory was still relatively new to the NHL, 103 Quebec-born players saw NHL ice time. About 185 Ontarians saw ice time.

In 2011, 163 Ontarians have seen time, but only 49 Quebecers have played in the NHL.

BC has about 60% of Quebec's population and 37 BC natives have seen time. That's 75% of Quebec's total.

Alberta, which has less than half of Quebec's population, has 58 natives playing in the league. That's 18% more players.

Saskatchewan, which has just over a million people, has 33 players in the league. That's two-thirds of Quebec's total.

Manitoba, which has about as many people as Laval and Longueuil combined, has 24 players in the league. Laval and Longueuil have six players in the league this year.

7 Quebec natives were drafted this year. In 1993, you had 17 in the first 7 rounds (the draft was longer then).

So where the hell has Quebec hockey talent disappeared to? This is important. I think most of us, if not all, want to see Quebec players do well. Quebec born players have obviously been indispensable in the history of the team. There is continuing controversy over the lack of Quebec born players in the team.

It's easy to just say "Well, more Americans/Euros", and to some extent that's true. But other provinces haven't lost anywhere near as many players as Quebec, and other provinces have even increased their talent. They are subject to just as many pressures from other sports (if not more - for example, BC produces a disproportionate amount of Canadian baseball talent and almost all of Canada's good rugby players).

Why? It seems to me that somewhere Quebec hockey is missing a trick.


http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-...573-eng.htm#a9


Soccer is Number One with kids

Quote:
soccer has caught on among Canadian youth, with nearly 20% of young people playing the game.
Quote:
Soccer is the only sport where boys’ participation has increased significantly, while hockey – formerly the number one organized sport for boys – has seen a dip in participation, especially among boys from households in the lowest adjusted income quintile.
Quote:
In 2005, the sports participation of children aged 5 to 14 was highest in Atlantic Canada and lowest in British Columbia and Quebec. It was also low (47%) in Canada’s three largest cities (Toronto, Montréal and Vancouver) and highest in smaller cities and towns with a population between 10,000 and 50,000 (58%).

Habaneros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 08:23 AM
  #8
Coldplay
Courage
 
Coldplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,315
vCash: 500
Your answer:
http://blogues.radio-canada.ca/blogu...pour-les-nuls/

and

http://www.exruefrontenac.com/mlecle...-pas-confondre

The moral of the story is that Hockey Quebec are a bunch of jackasses. That's all you actually need to know, come to think of it.

Coldplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 08:42 AM
  #9
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,100
vCash: 500
To put it inelegantly, the hockey development program in Québec sucks. I doesn't compare to that in many US states.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 08:50 AM
  #10
Not The One
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montréal, Qc.
Posts: 1,290
vCash: 500
There are of course many possible answers, some of which have been given in previous posts. I could think of other possibilities:

1)Loss of the Nordiques + Downward spiral of the Habs: None of the kids drafted in the last few years remember the glory days of hockey in the province, or of the great rivalry between our two teams.

2)Less Q teams in Québec, influx of Euro/Atlantic players on the rosters: I'd be curious to know how many Québec-born players are actually playing in the Q now, compared to 10/20 years ago. Less spots = less players to showcase.

3)The Q is underscouted: This has always been true, but has probably worsened because teams now have a lot more areas to scout. This is anecdotal evidence, but the three Québec-born players playing currently for the habs are undrafted. I think everyone could agree that, regardless of actual talent, undrafted players have a much tougher road to the NHL. Those 7-8-9th round picks from Québec in years past just aren't drafted as much anymore because there are a lot more choices in europe or in the US, where most of the scouts are.

4)Continuing obsession with "size" and "grit": Québec for some reason doesn't focus on that kind of player, which is not such a bad thing for me but might be for scouts.

Not The One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 08:50 AM
  #11
Pierre Dagenais
RIP Mr. Hockey
 
Pierre Dagenais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,336
vCash: 500
In the minors

Pierre Dagenais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 09:22 AM
  #12
pine
Registered User
 
pine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,813
vCash: 50
Or in Europe

pine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 10:17 AM
  #13
Le Tricolore
Boo! Booooo!
 
Le Tricolore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 27,179
vCash: 137
Send a message via Skype™ to Le Tricolore
Tampa Bay.

Le Tricolore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 10:38 AM
  #14
danyhabsfan
Registered User
 
danyhabsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,507
vCash: 500
Boston:Benoit Pouliot
SJ: Patrick Marleau
Calgary:René Bourque
Philly:Claude Giroux
Sean Couturier
Carolina:Brian Boucher
CBJ:Marc Méthot
Edm:Sam Gagner
LAK:Éthan Moreau
Nashville:Francis Bouillon
Pitt: Paul Martin
Toronto: Dion Phaneuf

danyhabsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 10:42 AM
  #15
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
Boston:Benoit Pouliot
SJ: Patrick Marleau
Calgary:René Bourque
Philly:Claude Giroux
Sean Couturier
Carolina:Brian Boucher
CBJ:Marc Méthot
Edm:Sam Gagner
LAK:Éthan Moreau
Nashville:Francis Bouillon
Pitt: Paul Martin
Toronto: Dion Phaneuf

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 10:54 AM
  #16
CrAzYNiNe
Registered User
 
CrAzYNiNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,955
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CrAzYNiNe
I agree with the immigration argument and add to that Soccer cost what like 100$ to play with registration and shin pads, cleets... Hockey is what4-5 times that (never played hockey, and I know skates can cost 300$ a pair and a stick can be 200$, but for young kids is 500$ a year logical?)

CrAzYNiNe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 11:12 AM
  #17
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
I think it's probably three things.

1) Quebec has had a bif influx of immigrants. That's true of Ontario & BC but we've increased our population despite the mass exodus of native born Canadians if I'm permitted to call them that. A big immigrant to native ratio. Also, most immigrants are from Francophone countries (Haiti, North Africa) not exactly countries with a history in hockey. Give it a generation or two for the kids to pick up the sport. Alberta, Sask & Manitoba has immigrants bit a lot of them are either Canadians from other provinces or Americans.
Does Quebec really have more immigrations than other parts of Canada? I mean Montreal has a huge immigrant community of course, but less so than Toronto or Vancouver, and probably on part with Calgary. I could be wrong but I also don't think immigrants are rushing to live in rural Quebec any more than they are rural Ontario.

"Nearly 9 percent of the population of Quebec belongs to a visible minority group. This is a lower percentage than that of British Columbia, Ontario, Alberta, and Manitoba but higher than that of the other five provinces. Most visible minorities in Quebec live in or near Montreal."

So while I agree with you that immigration has definitely impacted Quebec culture including hockey, if anything Montreal still attracts less non-American and European immigrants than Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and Winnipeg. As much as I love Montreal it's not the best place in Canada to move to in order to find a job, which offsets the Francophone appeal.

The problem has a lot more to do with poor management, cost, and inefficient scouting. Unfortunately I think there's also a sense of entitlement about hockey when it comes to Quebec that hurts scouting, player development, and promoting the sport among immigrant communities.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 11:16 AM
  #18
ClasslessGuy
Registered User
 
ClasslessGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St-Jean, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,272
vCash: 500
soccer is not kids favorite sport it is parents favorite sport ($$$$$)

ClasslessGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 11:20 AM
  #19
couris
Registered User
 
couris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,988
vCash: 500
No one plays hockey anymore in Montreal...thanks the govt. for massive immigration.

couris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 11:23 AM
  #20
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by couris View Post
No one plays hockey anymore in Montreal...thanks the govt. for massive immigration.
And yet Toronto, with the highest per capita number of immigrants in North America, continues to produce players, including the children of immigrants, such as a certain PK Subban.

But yeah sure, blame immigrants, despite Quebec having a lower immigration rate than half the country. Quebec chooses to allow the same number of immigrants as British Columbia a year despite twice the population.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 11:24 AM
  #21
Emanresu Wen
Registered User
 
Emanresu Wen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chubaka View Post
soccer is not kids favorite sport it is parents favorite sport ($$$$$)
The $$$ is the most important part

A year of Sport-Études (high school) hockey is about 3500-4000$ per kid

A year of soccer? A couple hundreds

Emanresu Wen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 11:27 AM
  #22
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,470
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
To put it inelegantly, the hockey development program in Québec sucks. I doesn't compare to that in many US states.
How would you go on to fix it?

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 11:30 AM
  #23
BBrowser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by couris View Post
No one plays hockey anymore in Montreal...thanks the govt. for massive immigration.
That's so wrong. Without immigration our population would actually be so old we couldn't even walk around let alone skate.

Global warming, on the other hand, and the price of cigarettes is obviously because of immigants.


BBrowser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 11:34 AM
  #24
Habbadasher
Registered User
 
Habbadasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My couch
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,642
vCash: 500
Soccer is more popular than hockey in all provinces, so that argument doesn't wash.

Forty-nine percent of Torontonians were born outside of Canada, so the immigrant theory is wrong.

It maybe Hockey Quebec, I have no knowledge of that issue.

I do believe it has to do with standard of living, although I am too lazy to research it, I know Quebec taxes are crazy, and unemployment is traditionally higher in Quebec; Quebecers likely have a lower disposable income, although housing is still relatively inexpensive in Quebec.

The scouting thing is a personal bias on the part of the poster, the NHL is too competitive to allow the language issue to bias scouting. The WHL has a greater geographic footprint that the Q.

Habbadasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 11:35 AM
  #25
couris
Registered User
 
couris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBrowser View Post
That's so wrong. Without immigration our population would actually be so old we couldn't even walk around let alone skate.

Global warming, on the other hand, and the price of cigarettes is obviously because of immigants.

The media sure loves promoting extreme feminisation....

couris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:35 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.