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Old
10-31-2003, 07:06 AM
  #76
dawgbone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
Salo played to his average (.856 SV% going in, .857 coming out ranking him 54th in the league). I would suggest that the minium should be .910 if you want to be a starter in the NHL.
So you are saying you would be completley happy with Salo's season if he made 10 more completely meaningless and harmless saves in a game? There is more to it than numbers.

Quote:
As for making the saves he is expected to make he also lost the lead quickly after each Oiler goal. Those are the saves you expect him to make.
The Oilers defence also left one of the best up and coming young players (who is also having a great season), completely alone in front of your net. I mean, had Smith made even the slightest contact with Nash on the first goal, I don't think he would have gotten the goal. Yeah, you can expect your goaltender to make every save after you get a lead, but in reality, you don't give 5 star chances when you are defending a lead.

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A counterpoint to that is we won. Well, if he only made the saves we expect the goalie to make than Conklin, Valiquette and a hundred other NHL goalies would also have won last night.
Quite possibly... but that is what happens in most games. If goaltenders always stole games, it wouldn't be a rare occurance, and it wouldn't be special... I mean Brodeur has made a career out of just making the saves he is expected to make (in the regular season at least).

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MacT - when Conklin recovers from his injury get him in there. In the meantime, try Valiquette to see if he can make the saves expected. For $3.9M I expect more than just stopping the easy ones.
Well for $27M, I expect a better team effort, and not coasting and leaving your man every time you get up by a goal...

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10-31-2003, 07:12 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue

Last night on the first goal, Nash picks up the rebound unobstructed by the defence and essentially gets an empty netter, a year and a half ago when Tommy was on top of his game, there is no rebound for Nash to pick up.
Bad goal? Not really
Good goal? again, not really
There was virtually no rebound on that play. I mean the puck didn't even get a foot away from him (which is perfect to cover up on)... unfortunately, Nash was right on top of him the second he made the save.

Everyone seems to think that rebound control is some exact science, and anyone can do it... well sorry... the hardest rebounds to control are a skipping puck along the ice (which was the initial shot on that goal), shots from the side when you are hugging the post, and shots that you play with your shoulders.

What you don't want to be doing, is kicking rebounds back out to players, or putting them a foot or two to the side. Either get it to a team mate, put it in an empty area (preferably the corner), or keep it within a foot in front of you so you can cover it up.

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10-31-2003, 07:15 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
1. Salo has always been a player who relied on instincts more than anything else. He would always anticipate the pass across, or whatever, which is one of the reasons why he made (and still does) make a lot of difficult saves look very routine. So yeah, he does guess, but a lot of his ineffectiveness can be traced to the fact that with all the defensive breakdowns, he is trying to anticipate too many different things, leaving him out to dry.
good point. i was actually thinking the same thing when i made this post - that salo has always been a guessing goalie. my observation is that guessing goalies can be AMAZING when they have confidence (hasek in buffalo) and terrible when they don't (hasek this year [har, har, har!]). unfortunately, right now i think salo is guessing on EVERY shot - and that's a problem. But is the problem with the rest of the team, as you suggest, or with salo? My opinion is the latter…

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
2. I have actually felt his rebound control has been very good… Salo hasn't had to make many rebound saves (which are generally the ones that people classify as game savers), which mostly has to do with his rebound control, which has been much better this year than I have ever seen from him.
when a goalie is "in the zone" pucks hit him and then die. a struggling goalie (like salo in my opinion) is so desperate to make the first save that he doesn't play the rebound (i should know, i spent my whole "career" like that). It’s odd to me that I’ve seen a completely different salo than you over the first few games. My opinion is that his rebound control is worse now than even markkanen’s was (and that’s saying something).

At any rate, in defense of goalies your team is supposed to help you out by quickly clearing the rebounds in these situations. That’s why markkanen always looked better than he was. that's also how the other players can help a goalie get back his confidence - count on him for the first save and don't force him to make a second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
3. He is either over-compensating for lack of confidence in himself, or his team-mates... I mean realistically, Salo has seen more guys all alone in front of the net in the past 2 games than most goalies see in 7 or 8. It has gotten to the point over the last year, that Salo not only has to worry about the guy with the puck, but the guy who seems to inevitiably lose his man, letting him get wide open. IMO, that was the reason for the Dallas goal in game 6... it wasn't that he wasn't paying attention, he was just more worried about the other players. In either case, they need a few all out-team win, where the defense doesn't give up cross-crease passes, and where Tommy can focus on the puck, and not have to worry about tonnes of defensive breakdowns...
the team win is key if (and that's a big if) salo is ever going to return to form. it's like i posted above: the oilers need to count on tommy for the first save and make sure he doesn't have to make a second. they need to do this consistently for a few games. the problem? a run and gun system inevitably leads to major breakdowns. major breakdowns don't have rebounds. Your goalie either makes a phenomenal save or the puck is in the net.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
You could very well be right... but until this team plays anything close to its potential (which IMO, they haven't), I think it is going to be tough to put any goaltender in this situation and expect them to win. I mean how many bad breakdowns does it take for a goalie to stand back there and think "I have to do this all alone!"? Part of the problem is that the Oilers have limited the opposition so much in terms of shots, that Salo is out there cold a lot, and then all of a sudden, there is a breakdown and he needs to come up with the big save... I know when I was in net, the more shots I got in the game, the "bigger" the save I could make... likewise, there were lots of games where the other team only had 2 or 3 real scoring chances, and not much else, and all of them went in... saves I might have made facing 37 shots, I couldn't make if I only faced 14. And you can argue that he is a professional, and should be mentally strong, but it's like a marathon... you need to condition yourself to something like that, and it is impossible to try and practice for those kinds of games (basically, standing in the net, and every 5 or 6 minutes facing a shot... not the best use of practice time).
i agree with your point about "high shot volume". i too was best when i faced a lot of shots (although "best" is very arbitrary in my case). when you face a lot of shots you stay in the game and stay focused (good example is tugnutt when he played for the nords and had that 77 save game in a 2-2 tie with the bruins). the problem here is that winning teams don't let their goalie make 30+ saves every night to maintain focus (new jersey, ottawa, philly, etc). they ask their #1 goalies to make 15-20 solid positional saves and be focused/professional/confident enough to make 1-2 "game-breaker" positional saves after breakdowns. that's what salo did the year the oilers were the 2nd best defensive team in the NHL. he did it admirably that season...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I think that if the Oilers can turn it around, and not give away the quality of chances that they are, and if Salo's numbers and perceived play don't improve, then yeah, it's time for a change... but until the team can stop their Jekyl and Hyde impersonation, replacing Salo won't help.
interesting... so you think the oilers are giving up more quality chances this year than in years past? i'm wondering if it isn't equally plausible that the breakdowns are simply more glaring now because tommy isn't making the dramatic save? i think both are good theories that warrant some consideration...

[edits: me english bad good word forget]

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10-31-2003, 07:33 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
are you sure????







Those are pretty flaming to me... they have a "Salo played like crap and handed Columbus a point" sounding to them... This thread started off about his play in this game (not this season), and that is why I am pissed off... because it is utter crap. You want to point out Salo's bad year, fine... but don't lump this game in with it.
Not saying some of the posters aren't a little aggressive, but i still think for the most part they make valid points :p

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10-31-2003, 07:36 AM
  #80
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Wildly out of control thread...

This thread has taken on a life of its own.

Fists, Elphy, Butcher...

You are right... Salo is not at the top of his game. But take it from another (now the 4th or 5th) goalie.... Salo played FINE last night. Not stellar, but exactly the type of game he needs to break out of his slump.

And you are wrong butcher... the last thing he should have done is stack the pads.

I agree with LawnD, WindowLicker, CopperandBlue, etc...
In order for Salo to break out of this slump, he needs a few games like last night (nights where he may have felt awkward but "escaped" with the win). The funny thing is that a game like last night convinces you that luck can be on your side.

After that, it is easy to come to the rink focussed... make a save early, and presto bango, your defensemen help you out a bit and the slump is over.

There is some good discussion here, but this thread should have been over on the first page. Salo was not weak last night.... he'll be able to go home and take a deep breath and focus on the next game.

For sanity's sake, I think the whole group of us die-hards should do the same.

Call me a mystic, but confidence is a strange thing, and all this negativity doesn't help matters. Heck, we might even be releasing "Salo you suck" pheromones.

So let's put it away for a day or two and have some peace.

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Old
10-31-2003, 07:38 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
i agree with your point about "high shot volume". i too was best when i faced a lot of shots (although "best" is very arbitrary in my case). when you face a lot of shots you stay in the game and stay focused (good example is tugnutt when he played for the nords and had that 77 save game in a 2-2 tie with the bruins). the problem here is that winning teams don't let their goalie make 30+ saves every night to maintain focus (new jersey, ottawa, philly, etc). they ask their #1 goalies to make 15-20 solid positional saves and be focused/professional/confident enough to make 1-2 "game-breaker" positional saves after breakdowns. that's what salo did the year the oilers were the 2nd best defensive team in the NHL. he did it admirably that season...
Thats the best I've heard it put so far. Right now Salo is being paid with the expectation that he can make those "1-2 gamebreaker postional saves after breakdowns" But hes not coming through. Its as simple as that. Big money contracts are nice (for the players, I mean), but they come with a level of expectation....

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10-31-2003, 07:40 AM
  #82
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Ps...

Last night I had 7 shots against. I let one in, and I felt I shoulda had it. My spct was .857.

How did I do? Won 6-1.

The night before I had 37 shots against, and lost 2-1 with a goal in the last minute. It was a mad scramble in front, and I had no chance cuz I didn't see the puck until it was in the net.

Which one should I be peeved about?

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10-31-2003, 07:46 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
good point. i was actually thinking the same thing when i made this post - that salo has always been a guessing goalie. my observation is that guessing goalies can be AMAZING when they have confidence (hasek in buffalo) and terrible when they don't (hasek this year [har, har, har!]). unfortunately, right now i think salo is guessing on EVERY shot - and that's a problem. But is the problem with the rest of the team, as you suggest, or with salo? My opinion is the latter…
Like I mentioned, it could be that Salo is so consumed with what else is going on (on the ice around him), that he isn't concentrating enough on who has the puck. I think we will see if the team pulls a couple of really tight defensive games in a row (which is very possible), where they are each responsible for their player, Salo will get back into the mode of playing the shooter as his main focus... or it could be that Salo is so shell shocked that he can't play anymore... but I would like to see that proved (by him still struggling despite a good defensive performance), before I give up on him.

Quote:
when a goalie is "in the zone" pucks hit him and then die. a struggling goalie (like salo in my opinion) is so desperate to make the first save that he doesn't play the rebound (i should know, i spent my whole "career" like that). It’s odd to me that I’ve seen a completely different salo than you over the first few games. My opinion is that his rebound control is worse now than even markkanen’s was (and that’s saying something).
I guess it's partly been because I am seeing Salo freeze the puck a lot more that he used to, which is why I think he has had better rebound control. I mean, there are some shots that you simply can't control, and that is fine, those happen... but there are ones that you have to control, or should control, and IMO, salo is doing it. The reason I feel that is Salo hasn't faced many rebound chances (part of the reason that the big save appears to be missing, as giving up a bad rebound does tend to lead to either a goal, or a big save).

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At any rate, in defense of goalies your team is supposed to help you out by quickly clearing the rebounds in these situations. That’s why markkanen always looked better than he was. that's also how the other players can help a goalie get back his confidence - count on him for the first save and don't force him to make a second.
I agree with you there. And that is why I think his numbers dropped even more (proportionately) than Salo's did last season. His first year the defense were animals in front, and let nothing through... last year it wasn't quite as dominating...

Quote:
the team win is key if (and that's a big if) salo is ever going to return to form. it's like i posted above: the oilers need to count on tommy for the first save and make sure he doesn't have to make a second. they need to do this consistently for a few games. the problem? a run and gun system inevitably leads to major breakdowns. major breakdowns don't have rebounds. Your goalie either makes a phenomenal save or the puck is in the net.
You are exactly right... except for the run and gun leading to breakdowns. Hey, I could live with 3on1's on 3on2's or 2on1's and accept those as consequences of the run and gun... but a lot of these breakdowns are when the other team is set in the Oilers zone... that to me speaks more about impatience, and poor positioning than anything else, and that can be addressed.

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i couldn't agree with your point about "high shot volume". i too was best when i faced a lot of shots (although "best" is very arbitrary in my case). when you face a lot of shots you stay in the game and stay focused (good example is tugnutt when he played for the nords and had that 77 save game in a 2-2 tie with the bruins). the problem here is that winning teams don't let their goalie to make 30+ saves every night to maintain focus (new jersey, ottawa, philly, etc). they ask their #1 goalies to make 15-20 solid positional saves and be focused/professional/confident enough to make 1-2 "game-breaker" positional saves after a breakdown per game. that's what salo did the year the oilers were the 2nd best defensive team in the NHL. he did it admirably that season...
Don't forget, before the past 2 seasons (where Salo has averaged 24 shots against per game), he was always a big time work horse, and faced lots of shots. 2 years ago, the defence in front of him were monsters, and Salo, for the most part only really had to worry about the initial shot. The guys in the defensive zone kept the front of the net clear, they cleared rebounds, they didn't give up as many easy tap in plays (read below). Salo isn't Brodeur. You can't leave him practically cold all game long, with a low shot volume, then give up a 4 or 5-star chance and expect him to save it... if he was, then he would be getting paid $8 mil. I really think Salo needs one of two scenarios... 1 is to stop trying to block every shot, and let him have some to get him in the game, or 2 if you are going to limit the shots on him, make sure you don't give up chances where the shooter is expected to score all the time.

Quote:
interesting... so you think the oilers are giving up more quality chances this year than in years past? i'm wondering if it isn't equally plausible that the breakdowns are simply more glaring now because tommy isn't making the dramatic save? i think both are good theories that warrant some consideration...
Not necessarily more quality... but of an even higher quality. I consider a 2on1 where the defenceman sprawls to block the pass, but it is flipped over him to the other player a pretty good scoring chance. Now, that is what used to happen... what I am seeing now, is that there isn't even a need to flip the puck over the sprawling defenceman... it is simply sliding it across the ice.

Take the Calgary game for instance. 2 goals were scored because of cross-crease passes. Now, those happen every game, but the major difference is that the player passing it needs to make some sort of flip pass to get it there. On those types of plays, any number of things can happen... it bounces over, or under the stick, the player doesn't get all of it, etc...). Now against Calgary, there was a clear passing lane that allowed the passer to simply put it along the ice. Now, on skyreach ice, that puck is going right where you want it, and your only hope is it takes a curling like catching of a hair or a rut or something. Those goals are virtually idiot proof. They can be directly equated to the save a goaltender makes on a lazy unscreened straight wrister from the point... 999 times out of 1000 the play is a gimmie and it is made.

Much like the goal Staois scored on sauve in the first colorado game (the pass from hemsky)... I mean hemsky had the lane and put it right along the ice, and it's the easiest pass to take in hockey... now similarily, against Calgary, Smyth takes a very good cross-ice pass, but McLennan makes the big save. The primary difference, is that the pass to Smyth had to go through a crowd, meaning it was bouncing and that before it got to him. Where Staois could place his shot on the pass from Hemsky, Smyth just had to try and get wood on it... that is basically the difference from the chances the Oilers were giving up 2 years ago, versus what they have been giving up.

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10-31-2003, 07:49 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
There was virtually no rebound on that play. I mean the puck didn't even get a foot away from him (which is perfect to cover up on)... unfortunately, Nash was right on top of him the second he made the save.

Everyone seems to think that rebound control is some exact science, and anyone can do it... well sorry... the hardest rebounds to control are a skipping puck along the ice (which was the initial shot on that goal), shots from the side when you are hugging the post, and shots that you play with your shoulders.

What you don't want to be doing, is kicking rebounds back out to players, or putting them a foot or two to the side. Either get it to a team mate, put it in an empty area (preferably the corner), or keep it within a foot in front of you so you can cover it up.

Again let me make it clear that I am not hoping on the bash Salo bandwagon because as I stated, the goals scored have been decent, it's just that not every decent chance should be going in imo.

As for the goal, with all due respect I think the shot was very controllable. The fact that Salo a) doesn't control it completely and b) doesn't continue to even try making a play when Nash is driving through the crease suggests to me that Salo didn't truly know where the puck was and again too me, that suggests that at this point he is simply trying to get infront of the puck to stop it as opposed to making a play on the puck.

Even if I concede that the shot was impossible to control, what does it suggest by Salo not even moving on Nash when he came accross the crease?

Basically what I am saying overall is that even if he gives up one or two goals a game from the quality of chances the opposition has had, then I don't have a problem with it. With that, when Salo is on his game, he is capable of stealing one of those chances per game. Over the past 4 games, that 1 five bell save could have changed the whole dynamics of what was happening.

Against St Louis if he makes the stop when the game was 3-1 or 3-2, would the Oil or even Salo himself been able to regained their composure? Chances are they would have had a better shot at it.

Against Colorado, if he comes in to replace Conklin and is able to shut the door on the PK then do the Oil have better or worse chance at coming back in the game? Hard to say but again the chances are better than what happened.

Against Calgary, if he is able to stuff Oliwa on the break away, then the Oilers have a whole period to try for one goal instead of needing two. Would they have got it? Who knows, but all of a sudden the hill they are climbing is much smaller.

Last night, if he comes up big in one of the goals last night, then at the very least they don't give back the single and at the very best they don't lose the momentum throughout the game and the team as a whole perhaps puts themselves in a situation where they are simply building more confidence instead of wondering how long the lead would last or how they were going to get another needed goal as opposed to simply pressing for more.

I don't care if Salo has a .89 sv%, .91 sv% or a .97 sv% but I think that this team, right now needs him to come up big on atleast one more shot a game.

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10-31-2003, 07:56 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksoil
Last night I had 7 shots against. I let one in, and I felt I shoulda had it. My spct was .857.

How did I do? Won 6-1.

The night before I had 37 shots against, and lost 2-1 with a goal in the last minute. It was a mad scramble in front, and I had no chance cuz I didn't see the puck until it was in the net.

Which one should I be peeved about?
both.

as a goalie you have to be mad at yourself everytime the puck crosses the red line. every time.

no matter how terrible your team plays defensively if the puck goes in it is your fault. you are the last line of defense and (more often than not) the difference between a win and a loss. if you start accepting goals because you feel you "had no chance" then you are letting yourself and your team down. you have a chance on every shot/rebound/breakaway if you read the play properly. for proof, go rent every game the habs played when Roy carried them to the cup. he had "no chance" on some saves that would blow your mind. or think back to cujo robbing joe niewendyk point blank in game 7 overtime the year the oilers knocked out dallas (thanks todd). Did cujo have a chance on that one? I sure as hell didn’t think so when it was unfolding but obviously he had the fire that night.

i'm not suggesting that you (or tommy) are as good as roy or cujo. I am simply suggesting that if you don't believe you can be then you never will be. if you don't expect yourself to make every save then you aren't competing.

obviously, i held myself to standards that were beyond my abilities (hell, i could only dream of being as good as salo at his worst). ultimately, my high personal expectations were very frustrating. but no one could ever accuse me of being complacent or "not in the game". i went out every single night expecting to turn a shoutout.

maybe i'm just a masochist? i called it competetive...

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10-31-2003, 07:57 AM
  #86
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Tough crowd, we win a biggy in overtime and Salo is still getting sauteed, grilled, fried sunny-side down, and rump roasted for good measure. Had Dvo buried any of the 2 goalposts and 1 crossbar he dinged or had Horcoff shot been off the post and in, was it Staios' flick at the net not missed by just by an inch, just at the 3rd period buzzer, then the game could have been a blowout. Ya' I know, coulda', shouda, woulda', mean diddly squat, but comeon guys, aren't there some positve to be revelled in before the 'Oil' gets creamed again, hopefully, somewhere far down the road.

I bet after Hasek's start in the motor city, having Cujo was starting to feel just comfortably extravagant until last night. Behind Salo the Oilers are looking talent rich and with the right degree of increased responsibility the position of goaltender will soilidify and become a real strength for the C & B for years to come. Tommy is enjoying the last year of his current contract, not including the two option years, it behooves Salo to perform well, so for this year patience is needed so Conk and those in waiting can develope.

I was very critical of the coaching, but with new 3 year contracts signed all around, they're not going anywhere soon; so I've resolved to keep my piece (or is that peace) unless it becomes outrageously bad. Besides, b*t*hing about going 0 for 5 on the PP, and giving up an unlucky shorty, just after Brewer pinched, seems counter-productive when Eric played much better and the team had so many other positives to talk about.

Man, Dvo was a monster out there and that Nash kid took a licking and kept on ticking. It wasn't like CBJ played badly and we just squeaked out a win because they were worse than us. Horcoff, Smytty, Reasoner, York, didn't get any break around their net all night long, 41 shots 4 posts and a crossbar, man Denis was blessed the score wasn't 7 to 3. Between the lead piping and the luke warm defense of Salo, this mad cow criticism gone wonky, seems like goals scored into an empty net. But think of the positive here, now you guys got me to shoot holes in and I stop'em like a sieve.

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10-31-2003, 08:06 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksoil
Last night I had 7 shots against. I let one in, and I felt I shoulda had it. My spct was .857.

How did I do? Won 6-1.

The night before I had 37 shots against, and lost 2-1 with a goal in the last minute. It was a mad scramble in front, and I had no chance cuz I didn't see the puck until it was in the net.

Which one should I be peeved about?

The first one, how could you BLOW a shutout like that with only 7 shots. Yeeshhh !!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Geoff.

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10-31-2003, 08:08 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
Again let me make it clear that I am not hoping on the bash Salo bandwagon because as I stated, the goals scored have been decent, it's just that not every decent chance should be going in imo.

As for the goal, with all due respect I think the shot was very controllable. The fact that Salo a) doesn't control it completely and b) doesn't continue to even try making a play when Nash is driving through the crease suggests to me that Salo didn't truly know where the puck was and again too me, that suggests that at this point he is simply trying to get infront of the puck to stop it as opposed to making a play on the puck.

Even if I concede that the shot was impossible to control, what does it suggest by Salo not even moving on Nash when he came accross the crease?
You are talking about a slapshot from the point here... the puck isn't going to hit something and stop dead here... physics don't work that way. The puck was in front of him for less than a second... I have been watching the high-lites all morning (I love being the boss sometimes), and when Salo is making the save, Nash is directly in front of him. Now, like I said earlier, had Smith even made the slightest bit of contact on Nash, there is a good chance that goal doesn't go in.

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Basically what I am saying overall is that even if he gives up one or two goals a game from the quality of chances the opposition has had, then I don't have a problem with it. With that, when Salo is on his game, he is capable of stealing one of those chances per game. Over the past 4 games, that 1 five bell save could have changed the whole dynamics of what was happening.

Against St Louis if he makes the stop when the game was 3-1 or 3-2, would the Oil or even Salo himself been able to regained their composure? Chances are they would have had a better shot at it.

Against Colorado, if he comes in to replace Conklin and is able to shut the door on the PK then do the Oil have better or worse chance at coming back in the game? Hard to say but again the chances are better than what happened.

Against Calgary, if he is able to stuff Oliwa on the break away, then the Oilers have a whole period to try for one goal instead of needing two. Would they have got it? Who knows, but all of a sudden the hill they are climbing is much smaller.

Last night, if he comes up big in one of the goals last night, then at the very least they don't give back the single and at the very best they don't lose the momentum throughout the game and the team as a whole perhaps puts themselves in a situation where they are simply building more confidence instead of wondering how long the lead would last or how they were going to get another needed goal as opposed to simply pressing for more.

I don't care if Salo has a .89 sv%, .91 sv% or a .97 sv% but I think that this team, right now needs him to come up big on atleast one more shot a game.
You could argue every game that the goaltender could have made one more stop... I mean this same argument was brought up when the Oilers got shutout in back to back games... if only Salo had made 4 more saves, the Oilers could have tied both games... isn't that ridiculous?

Just one more save per game... why not just ask him to save them all? How about asking the 18 guys who play in front of him to let just one less guy in front of the net all alone?

The Oilers right now are 4 - 5. Now stop me here if I am wrong... aside from one game (agaisnt Colorado), have the Oilers really played a completely solid game?

The Oilers need to worry less about blocking the initial shot, and more about covering their men. That 3rd goal last night could have been prevented had the player who went out to the point, let Salo face the shot, and taken away the tip opportunity by getting position on Nash. Salo then makes a pretty routine stop on that play, and it is the big save everyone is waiting for. The big save isn't always about the goaltender. Alot of times, it is because the defenceman hooks the shooter just enough to mess up the shot, or whatever.

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10-31-2003, 08:23 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by LawnDemon
both.

as a goalie you have to be mad at yourself everytime the puck crosses the red line. every time.

no matter how terrible your team plays defensively if the puck goes in it is your fault. you are the last line of defense and (more often than not) the difference between a win and a loss. if you start accepting goals because you feel you "had no chance" then you are letting yourself and your team down. you have a chance on every shot/rebound/breakaway if you read the play properly. for proof, go rent every game the habs played when Roy carried them to the cup. he had "no chance" on some saves that would blow your mind. or think back to cujo robbing joe niewendyk point blank in game 7 overtime the year the oilers knocked out dallas (thanks todd). Did cujo have a chance on that one? I sure as hell didn’t think so when it was unfolding but obviously he had the fire that night.

i'm not suggesting that you (or tommy) are as good as roy or cujo. I am simply suggesting that if you don't believe you can be then you never will be. if you don't expect yourself to make every save then you aren't competing.

obviously, i held myself to standards that were beyond my abilities (hell, i could only dream of being as good as salo at his worst). ultimately, my high personal expectations were very frustrating. but no one could ever accuse me of being complacent or "not in the game". i went out every single night expecting to turn a shoutout.

maybe i'm just a masochist? i called it competetive...
I don't know if getting mad about it is necessarily the right thing... I mean, I would get mad at myself if I knew I made a stupid play... but otherwise, I'll I tried to do was figure out if I "realistically" could have done anything about it, and try and learn from that. I mean, there are some goals you can only stop if you are psychic... but that isn't something you can really rely on.

Then there are the times where you feel you have done the absolutely stupidest thing of all time, and there you are sprawled on the ice with your back to the puck and it hits you in the back of the head and stays out...

Goaltending is almost as much about luck as it is about positioning and skill. I mean you don't make all your saves based on luck, but you do keep a lot out because of it... I mean goalposts, shots just wide, shots that hit you that you didn't even see... etc.

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10-31-2003, 08:35 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
The Oilers need to worry less about blocking the initial shot, and more about covering their men. That 3rd goal last night could have been prevented had the player who went out to the point, let Salo face the shot, and taken away the tip opportunity by getting position on Nash. Salo then makes a pretty routine stop on that play, and it is the big save everyone is waiting for. The big save isn't always about the goaltender. Alot of times, it is because the defenceman hooks the shooter just enough to mess up the shot, or whatever.
Now this I agree with, let Salo see the shots, clear the rebounds, and make the front of the net be a tough place to be, keep position on the opposing players, keep the opponents sticks tied up and let Tommy play goal by himself. Plus sometimes goals get scored because of great determined plays by the bad guys.

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10-31-2003, 10:40 AM
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For what its worth, I agree with dawgbone and windowlicker. Even with an important win, some Oiler fans just can't NOT take a shot at scapegoats. Are all the goals Tommy's fault? Of course not. Yet they seem to think that the Oilers losing streak is purely salo's and pisani's fault. Those two players are playing AVERAGE. Salo had an average game last night, he stopped the shots he could and the goals that went it he didn't have much chance at.

All my expectations are of a keeper is to always make the FIRST stop. Let the defense handle the rebounds / tip-ins. And with the exception of the Nash tip-in, Salo did that last night.

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10-31-2003, 12:43 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by neogeo69
For what its worth, I agree with dawgbone and windowlicker. Even with an important win, some Oiler fans just can't NOT take a shot at scapegoats. Are all the goals Tommy's fault? Of course not. Yet they seem to think that the Oilers losing streak is purely salo's and pisani's fault. Those two players are playing AVERAGE. Salo had an average game last night, he stopped the shots he could and the goals that went it he didn't have much chance at.

All my expectations are of a keeper is to always make the FIRST stop. Let the defense handle the rebounds / tip-ins. And with the exception of the Nash tip-in, Salo did that last night.
When a goalie is making what Salo is I don't think its unrealistic to expect him to be better then average...

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10-31-2003, 12:47 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Marconius
When a goalie is making what Salo is I don't think its unrealistic to expect him to be better then average...
Fine... but there is no sense brining it up after a win... bring it up after a loss, but when there is a win, and Tommy helps us get the win, leave it alone.

God, if Cleary or Comrie were playing, it would all be their fault right now...

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10-31-2003, 12:51 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
Fine... but there is no sense brining it up after a win... bring it up after a loss, but when there is a win, and Tommy helps us get the win, leave it alone.

God, if Cleary or Comrie were playing, it would all be their fault right now...
in my mind it doesn't matter if we win or lose regarding issues like these, average play is average play.

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10-31-2003, 02:34 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Marconius
in my mind it doesn't matter if we win or lose regarding issues like these, average play is average play.
I just feel that he is guessing alot out there. There was one play behind the net that he jump out to his right like he saw a ghost and then realized that the pass had not been made at all. He looked pretty nervous. I have not quite given up on him, Ive met him and hes a real solid individual, but I have to say he is by far not untouchable. I too get vert nervous when there is any pressure.

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