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Gm #19 Kings @ Ducks, 11/17/11 - POST GAME WIN!, THOUGHTS & TIDBITS {Déjà vu!}

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11-19-2011, 02:09 PM
  #226
KingPurpleDinosaur
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well, no matter how we got Richards, I don't expect the Flyers to be complaining about it much. They traded away two 70 point players and still have 20 more goals than us. Imagine having the depth of trading away two heavy impact players and still being at the top of the league. All the while having a goalie who is underperforming to his talent.

That really is unbelievable.

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11-19-2011, 02:19 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
well, no matter how we got Richards, I don't expect the Flyers to be complaining about it much. They traded away two 70 point players and still have 20 more goals than us. Imagine having the depth of trading away two heavy impact players and still being at the top of the league. All the while having a goalie who is underperforming to his talent.

That really is unbelievable.
If there's one thing the Flyers can do, it's produce offense. They draft offense, they build around offense, they breed offense. It's defense that's always been the problem. They always make the playoffs, every year, and they always end up losing.

I don't know if it will be different this year with Bryz, but I'm not sold on a defense that's built around a 37 yr old injury prone jackass winning anything substantial.

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11-19-2011, 02:24 PM
  #228
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Mike Richards was traded because of the salary CAP. That's it.

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11-19-2011, 02:24 PM
  #229
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"The user has made this video not available to view in your country"

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Oh, crap. I thought it was available worldwide but I guess it's only good in Canada. Sorry.

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11-19-2011, 02:28 PM
  #230
Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Mike Richards was traded because of the salary CAP. That's it.
Jeff carter was traded because of the salary cap. The didn't have to trade Richards.

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11-19-2011, 02:32 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Jeff carter was traded because of the salary cap. The didn't have to trade Richards.
They were both traded because of the salary CAP. They exchanged 2 expensive players and got 4 cheap players in return. Roster spots needed to be filled.

Lombardi was approached about Mike Richards long before the Carter trade went down.

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11-19-2011, 02:37 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
well, no matter how we got Richards, I don't expect the Flyers to be complaining about it much. They traded away two 70 point players and still have 20 more goals than us. Imagine having the depth of trading away two heavy impact players and still being at the top of the league. All the while having a goalie who is underperforming to his talent.

That really is unbelievable.
Goal scoring is one thing but defence is another. They lost their best defensive forwards in Richards, Carter and Powe. Lappy is done and Betts is also gone, first waived, picked up by Habs, returned to Philly due to injury and now on LTIR. As good as Giroux is offensively, he isn't a good defensive forward although he tries.

I know a lot of Kings fans are complaining about the low goal output but once the season gets near the end and into the playoffs, you have to play good defence. Pronger is ancient and seemingly injury prone, Timonen is old and always wears down by the end of the season because he plays a ton of minutes and a much harder game than Pronger. Then you have Carle and Coburn who need their hands held by the above two to be effective and Meszaros who was terrific last year but has relapsed and that's where the holes are.

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11-19-2011, 02:40 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Mike Richards was traded because of the salary CAP. That's it.
That's "it"? I'm having a hard time believing that is the final sentence in the story.

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11-19-2011, 02:42 PM
  #234
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I don't know if it will be different this year with Bryz, but I'm not sold on a defense that's built around a 37 yr old injury prone jackass winning anything substantial.
Captain Warmth just took a costly slashign penatly, Jets scored Jets up 3-0 in the 1st.

Quote:
They were both traded because of the salary CAP. They exchanged 2 expensive players and got 4 cheap players in return. Roster spots needed to be filled.

Lombardi was approached about Mike Richards long before the Carter trade went down.
Yes, Lombardi was approached 1 week after the season ended, mid may about Richards because Ed Snider directed Holmgren to trade him (Local radio sport talk host reported Snider said of Richards after Boston series over 'I want him gone!!!".
And gone he was to LA where HOmer wanted him to go. It had nothing to do with Salary Cap, they had other options if it was about money.

Carter went due to Salary Cap not Richards. That's Front Office spin, and kool aid that most Flyers fans well versed inthe Snider politics can attest to.

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11-19-2011, 02:42 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
They were both traded because of the salary CAP. They exchanged 2 expensive players and got 4 cheap players in return. Roster spots needed to be filled.

Lombardi was approached about Mike Richards long before the Carter trade went down.
I'm sorry but I don't buy it. They didn't have to trade either of them.

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11-19-2011, 02:42 PM
  #236
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Mike Richards is all that is right with the world.

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Old
11-19-2011, 02:58 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
I'm sorry but I don't buy it. They didn't have to trade either of them.
It came straight from the GM's mouth.

Who else were they going to move to make room for Bryz? AND fill out the rest of their roster?

Briere? He has an NMC.
Hartnell? Has a NTC
Timonen? Has a NMC
Pronger? Has a NMC.
Grioux? Has a low CAP hit already

The two players with big contracts that DIDN'T have clauses, are the ones that got traded. Giroux had established himself has their top center as well.

Mike and Jeff would probably still be on the Flyers if there was no salary constraints on teams.

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11-19-2011, 03:02 PM
  #238
Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
It came straight from the GM's mouth.

Who else were they going to move to make room for Bryz? AND fill out the rest of their roster?

Briere? He has an NMC.
Hartnell? Has a NTC
Timonen? Has a NMC
Pronger? Has a NMC.
Grioux? Has a low CAP hit already

The two players with big contracts that DIDN'T have clauses, are the ones that got traded. Giroux had established himself has their top center as well.

Mike and Jeff would probably still be on the Flyers if there was no salary constraints on teams.
So because the gm says it in the media it makes it gospel? Just like Lombardi said the kings were not going to go after brad Richards, right? I'm sure flyers fans would have loved their gm to come out and say they traded their captain because the owner had a mental breakdown and decided they had to get bryzgalov at any cost. The flyers DID NOT HAVE to trade carter or Richards. They could have easily stuck with bobrovsky if they wanted to in order to keep the team in tact. You're looking at the trades in a vacuum without taking into account the extenuating circumstances that surrounded the situation.

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Old
11-19-2011, 03:08 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
I'm sorry but I don't buy it. They didn't have to trade either of them.
A couple of weeks before the trades, Carter and his agent both were told he wouldn't be traded. They both heard the rumours and when Carter's agent called Homer, Homer told him there would be no trade and that if Jeff wanted to come in and talk to him, he'd tell him the same thing to his face. So Carter went in, was told there would be no trade and then was traded. I think they decided that Richards would flip out if Carter was traded after being lied to, after signing a very long term extension/friendly cap hit contract. Carter made $5 million for the past 3 years and went up just over $200,000 to help the team cap wise and it blew up in his face. So I think that was a big part of the reason Richards was also traded, he would not have reacted well to what happened.

I also believe Pronger was involved. He always patted Richards on the head to the media, rarely gave him full credit or defended him like he should have. When the trades came down, Pronger was on the radio here in Toronto and was asked if he had talked to Richards and Carter and he said he'd call them after giving them a day or two to deal with it. When Richards had his feature on TSN with Cabbie, he was asked if he had talked to Pronger since the trades and he said no. He also kept saying over the past couple of years that they were friends, but either he was acting or is very naive. If Pronger REALLY was a friend, he would have called. Richards said his phone rang off the hook yet no call from Pronger. Yet we heard repeatedly that Pronger called Simmonds and Jagr immediately so we know he's capable of using a phone.

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11-19-2011, 03:13 PM
  #240
johnjm22
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The flyers DID NOT HAVE to trade carter or Richards. They could have easily stuck with bobrovsky if they wanted to in order to keep the team in tact.
But they didn't stick with Bobrovsky. Therefore, because of the salary CAP, they had to move large contracts to make room for Bryzgalov AND fill out the rest of their roster. The only large contracts that didn't have clauses attached were Carter and Richards.

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11-19-2011, 03:15 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
So because the gm says it in the media it makes it gospel? Just like Lombardi said the kings were not going to go after brad Richards, right? I'm sure flyers fans would have loved their gm to come out and say they traded their captain because the owner had a mental breakdown and decided they had to get bryzgalov at any cost. The flyers DID NOT HAVE to trade carter or Richards. They could have easily stuck with bobrovsky if they wanted to in order to keep the team in tact. You're looking at the trades in a vacuum without taking into account the extenuating circumstances that surrounded the situation.
Homer has proved repeatedly that he's a liar. I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth anymore. As far as Bryz goes, they could have paid him less and given him less term but when Snider told everyone the goaltending would be fixed, he gave Bryz's agent a blank cheque. He actually had his private jet pick Bryz up in NY to fly him to Philly. Talk about brutal negotiation tactics.

Interestingly, Bryz made some ignorant comments about the city of Winnipeg last spring and the Flyers are playing in Winnipeg today. For some reason, Bob is the starting goalie. Is Bryz scared? He comes across as a typical, flaky goalie and there was an article about him out of Phoenix a few weeks ago where Dave Tippett said Bryz got really distracted when the rumours about moving to Winnipeg were flying around because he didn't want to move there. At first it seemed like a strange time for Tippett to talk because they weren't playing Philly for a few weeks but now you have to wonder.

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11-19-2011, 03:23 PM
  #242
Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
But they didn't stick with Bobrovsky. Therefore, because of the salary CAP, they had to move large contracts to make room for Bryzgalov AND fill out the rest of their roster. The only large contracts that didn't have clauses attached were Carter and Richards.
Again, you're completely ignoring everything else that everyone here is pointing out so eloquently for you. I know you don't like Richards so I guess I'm not too surprised.

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11-19-2011, 03:37 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Again, you're completely ignoring everything else that everyone here is pointing out so eloquently for you. I know you don't like Richards so I guess I'm not too surprised.
I like Richards. I've read all the TMZ-esque, drama laden gossip about why Mike was traded, and I think the most obvious reason is being ignored; the Flyers needed CAP space.

I'm sure they would have liked to move Timo, but Mike and Jeff were their most tradable assets.

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11-19-2011, 03:40 PM
  #244
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Had no idea we had a matinee game today. Better late than never. Edit: wrong thread

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Old
11-19-2011, 03:57 PM
  #245
MsWoof
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I like Richards. I've read all the TMZ-esque, drama laden gossip about why Mike was traded, and I think the most obvious reason is being ignored; the Flyers needed CAP space.

I'm sure they would have liked to move Timo, but Mike and Jeff were their most tradable assets.
They really didn't need the space. People on the Flyers' boards had cap-geeked different situations. They could have kept both of them but chose not to. I think they used them as scapegoats because of the playoff exit, because, you know, they were responsible for giving Michael Leighton a 2 year contract for sucking

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11-19-2011, 04:17 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
They really didn't need the space. People on the Flyers' boards had cap-geeked different situations. They could have kept both of them but chose not to. I think they used them as scapegoats because of the playoff exit, because, you know, they were responsible for giving Michael Leighton a 2 year contract for sucking
They needed the CAP space.

They had something like 18 roster players under contract, and were 7M over the CAP.

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11-19-2011, 04:39 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
They needed the CAP space.

They had something like 18 roster players under contract, and were 7M over the CAP.
7 million? Not even close. They sent Leighton and Walker to the farm, put Lappy on LTIR and made enough moves that they could have kept both. Snider wanted them gone and he got what he wanted.

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11-19-2011, 04:51 PM
  #248
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You don't trade your captain for cap space, I'm sorry. There is plenty of ways to get cap space other than trading the leader of your team and your leading goal scorer. They both had very cap friendly contracts. The Flyers traded Gagne in 2010 even though he had a NTC. They could've worked around it, but they chose not to. They chose to trade their two franchise players in their prime. You don't do that for cap space.

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11-19-2011, 06:20 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
7 million? Not even close. They sent Leighton and Walker to the farm, put Lappy on LTIR and made enough moves that they could have kept both. Snider wanted them gone and he got what he wanted.
Leighton/Walker/Lappy only account for 4M. After negating the contracts of those three, and before adding depth and resigning RFAs, the Flyers only had 15 players under contract. The needed to add 7 players to the roster and were near the CAP limit already.

CAP space was needed to accommodate Bryzgalov AND fill out the rest of the roster with decent players.

They basically exchanged Carter/Richards (11M) for Voracek/Simmonds/Schenn/Couturier (8.4M). That allowed them to fill out roster spots with cheaper, but still good/high upside players.

If there was no salary CAP, Richards would probably still be a Flyer right now, and Flyers could have afforded to land Bryzgalov/Jagr/Leino ect.

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11-19-2011, 06:56 PM
  #250
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
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Now you guys get to see what we've been seeing here in the Eastern conference. Sometimes I wanted my team to give the PP back to the Flyers because Richie was on the PK. That was a fun game btw

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