HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Where are the Quebec players?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-19-2011, 09:52 PM
  #76
Ollie Williams
Registered User
 
Ollie Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,943
vCash: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I hate the "it's too expensive" excuse.

I'm raising three kids on one income and I have money saved for my son to play hockey next year. Kid is showing interest in being a goalie too and I fully support that. Soccer may be cheaper and sure, it's fun, but nothing beats playing hockey in Quebec. Friendships are made early on, you learn so much and overall it's just fun.

Started when I was 4, had to stop at 16 when I had surgery on my knee due to an ugly hit and I will not deny my son or my two other children a chance to play.
For my case (at least what they told me), it was not the amount it cost per-say, but the philosophy they had adopted from their country about extra curricular activities. For example, it was acceptable to spend up to a certain amount on recreational sports but after a certain dollar amount, the priority for such a sum of money would be better used elsewhere.

After living in Quebec for so many years now, their philosophy about many things changed and if they could go back they wouldn't hesitate to spend the money to putting me in ice hockey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vineon View Post
As already brought up, this would affect all provinces with a large influx of immigrants, not only Québec.

I completely reject the idea that immigration has much to do with it and it seems fairly normal to me, money aside, that immigrant families would have their kids play the sports they actually are familiar with.
That also has something to do with it, although there wasn't much basketball going around in our country back then.

Ollie Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 09:55 PM
  #77
68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mount Olympus
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I hate the "it's too expensive" excuse.

I'm raising three kids on one income and I have money saved for my son to play hockey next year. Kid is showing interest in being a goalie too and I fully support that. Soccer may be cheaper and sure, it's fun, but nothing beats playing hockey in Quebec. Friendships are made early on, you learn so much and overall it's just fun.

Started when I was 4, had to stop at 16 when I had surgery on my knee due to an ugly hit and I will not deny my son or my two other children a chance to play.
Wish my dad was like that. I wanted to play hockey but we were just immigrants with no money. Dad didn't want to pay and mom didn't want me to play because I broke my left arm two times when I was a kid.

Parents .

68 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 09:59 PM
  #78
Habbadasher
Registered User
 
Habbadasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My couch
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vineon View Post
You still aren't factoring in cost of life and the actual services offered by the higher taxes, for example auto insurance and daycare. While the Québécois do pay more taxes, you have to remember that an Ontarian family in comparison will pay for the same services, except to private companies.

Just saying.
Here are tons of statistics showing Quebec has higher than average unemployment, lower wealth, lower economic participation, etc.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/13-605-...151911-eng.htm

By the way, I mentioned the lower housing costs in my first post.

Anecdotally, my sons best friends' family lived in government housing in Toronto, their mom worked a minimum wage job, and the father was handicapped, but the son played hockey, lacrosse, etc., now he is in university. The boy got a "sponsor" to pay for his activities. It can be done, even when you have no money.

Habbadasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 10:10 PM
  #79
Crimson Skorpion
Global Moderator
 
Crimson Skorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lachine, Quebec
Country: Germany
Posts: 27,853
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 View Post
Wish my dad was like that. I wanted to play hockey but we were just immigrants with no money. Dad didn't want to pay and mom didn't want me to play because I broke my left arm two times when I was a kid.

Parents .
Broken arm, broken finger, two sprained ankles, spleen problems and the list goes on and on and I still had parents that supported me to play. It helped that my dad was a sports freak, as I also played soccer and softball and he was always on the coaching staff for those sports too. Then it was easy because with two incomes, my parents were easily able to afford it.

When my mother took over as the only parent when I was 11, it was hard to support my hockey, but she did it regardless because she knew I was happy.

If you can't afford it, get a secondary job and save up all of that extra money. At least that is what I am doing. I never want to have to tell my kids they can't do something because we can't afford it.

It sucks but it's true in today's world. Quebec's drop in hockey is partly due to cost of league entry fees, equipment that needs to be bought every 1-2 years, skates aren't cheap. You can easily spend $1,500-$2,000 (depending on what position you play) for equipment and then turn around a year or two later and have to spend that again. Best bet is Play It Again Sports.

__________________
Shawn Wilken,
Head of Hockey Department
LastWordOnSports.com


Want to write for us? Head to lastwordonsports.com/writeforus and apply!
Crimson Skorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 10:26 PM
  #80
Vineon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Martinique
Posts: 86
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Here are tons of statistics showing Quebec has higher than average unemployment, lower wealth, lower economic participation, etc.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/13-605-...151911-eng.htm

By the way, I mentioned the lower housing costs in my first post.

Anecdotally, my sons best friends' family lived in government housing in Toronto, their mom worked a minimum wage job, and the father was handicapped, but the son played hockey, lacrosse, etc., now he is in university. The boy got a "sponsor" to pay for his activities. It can be done, even when you have no money.
Ever since the recent recession, bar a month or two in the summer in which Ontario created summer jobs before losing them again, Québec has had a better unemployement rate. It is also still currently the case.

The latest monthly release by stats can, which you love to use as a source without understanding what really you link to (when it isn't a decade old graph), has them at 8.1% for Ontario and 7.7% for Québec.

Comparing states after taxing is only efficient if they receive the same package of services. I gave daycare and auto insurance as examples : after substracting taxes from revenues, an Ontarian family will still need to pay both while a Québécois family has already pretty much already paid both. Just two simple examples that make a huge difference. The Québécois DO get something for this extra taxing, can this please not be forgotten.

I'm also glad you mentionned rent but you also could have energy. The people living in Québec pay very little for their electricity, which is another important bill to all households.

Also, I'm sure you're not interested in a L'Actualité source (especially from a JF Lisée article), but its been fairly well perceived for a bit that the Québébois families, in large, have had it easier in Québec in recent years than Ontarian families.

http://www2.lactualite.com/jean-fran...ariennes/7124/

Something else : Ontario is pretty much the only province fitting to be compared with Québec as they have somewhat similar natural resources and industries. There isn't a state in the entire world that wouldn't currently pale in comparison to oil rich provinces like Alberta. If Alberta were a country, it would have the highest GDP per capita in the entire world (... next to tiny Luxembourg's).


Last edited by Vineon: 11-19-2011 at 10:59 PM.
Vineon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 10:58 PM
  #81
Habbadasher
Registered User
 
Habbadasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My couch
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,644
vCash: 500
You do know I said "historically higher unemployment" in my original post? Try reading.

It takes about 18 years to make a draft eligible player, so one summer does not make 18 years.

If Quebecers were so wealthy, their net worth would be higher, which I proved it is not.

Habbadasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2011, 11:26 PM
  #82
Vineon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Martinique
Posts: 86
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
You do know I said "historically higher unemployment" in my original post? Try reading.

It takes about 18 years to make a draft eligible player, so one summer does not make 18 years.

If Quebecers were so wealthy, their net worth would be higher, which I proved it is not.
It's been better than Ontario's for a few years now (unemployment rate), just not a "summer thing" anymore. Québec has simply been much less affected by the recession.

What you 'proved' is that the Québécois have less money left to spend after taxes are deducted from income. What you disregarded were the things paid by this extra tax and the lower cost of living. I'm saying the measure wasn't a good one to then insinuate Québec families have less money for sports and other hobbies.

Vineon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 12:25 AM
  #83
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,185
vCash: 500
I say it is Michel bergeron's fault. His stupidity scares people away from hockey. :-)

I cannot say I know enough about Hockey Quebec enough to say they are worse than hockey Ontario, or others. But you can see it in the Wjhc, the Q players just are not in the mold of the NHL.

Ya...it is Bergeron's fault. His type of negative vibes leads good candidates to choose other, less expensive sports.

I am only half joking....

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 12:33 AM
  #84
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
Ohhhh you mad
 
DekeLikeYouMeanIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In space..with goats
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,293
vCash: 500
Yo can we stick to hockey in Quebec and not living standards and economics?

DekeLikeYouMeanIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 02:18 AM
  #85
Player 61
#Winning
 
Player 61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,153
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Player 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Not fair !!!! WE CARE !!!!!
I know some do, that's why there is a lower level team in Lachine, with an arena. We do care! Very local..... The Maroons still live. Just "L" Not "M" There is a team still called the Maroons on the Island! Just West... a little. Lachime Maroons... :-) And Lachine plays Ontario teams every day!


Last edited by Player 61: 11-20-2011 at 02:26 AM.
Player 61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 03:03 AM
  #86
Vineon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Martinique
Posts: 86
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
I say it is Michel bergeron's fault. His stupidity scares people away from hockey. :-)

I cannot say I know enough about Hockey Quebec enough to say they are worse than hockey Ontario, or others. But you can see it in the Wjhc, the Q players just are not in the mold of the NHL.

Ya...it is Bergeron's fault. His type of negative vibes leads good candidates to choose other, less expensive sports.

I am only half joking....
Then one would think Don Cherry would scare a few English Canadians away from hockey as well. I read a few times here that some people believe Réjean Tremblay to be his Québec equal... Good grief..

As for the WJHC, perhaps when Qc gets its own team we'll have a better idea. The Québec team did win a few times in the U18 tournament where Canada is split into many teams, after all. They are not world beaters, but they hang in there and get a few medals. Get this : it's even occasionally gold.

But its ok, mon ami. Just be happy Huberdeau will be our sole representative and please feel like that has nothing to do with a severe bias against hockey being played here (uh oh! I did play that card!). Hey, perhaps we could start naming players that made the NHL without taking part in the Worlds Junior Tournament with great ones like very "NHL-mold" Kyle Chipchura!

Vineon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 04:55 AM
  #87
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 3,131
vCash: 500
Quebec would be the perfect place to abandon their current systems and go straight to a scholastic system. All children, male and female should have the choice to learn hockey in elementary school and play in a competitive yet fun environment.

I can't stand private institutions like how we run our hockey in Canada. It would be nice to see Quebec be the first to separate themselves from it and let the rest of Canada follow suit.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 11:32 AM
  #88
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vineon View Post

As for the WJHC, perhaps when Qc gets its own team ....please feel like that has nothing to do with a severe bias against hockey being played here ....with great ones like very "NHL-mold" Kyle Chipchura!
Wow, mon ami..

Quebec wjhc team, yeah that great idea again. And for that bias, it must be aweful living with that 100 pound chip on your shoulder. But then again, there is always someone else to blame when things don't go your way.

As for Chipchura, the fact that you conveniently forgot that his severe ankle injury happened after the Habs drafted him. He was projected as a good 3rd line center. Nothing more.

Don't mind me, I obviously am not burdened by the same oppression as you seem to be.

Carry on, maitre de chez vous.

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 12:21 PM
  #89
snakeye
Registered User
 
snakeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chubaka View Post
2 simple word: Hockey Québec
Why is there a 6 page discussion when the first reply pretty much nailed it?

snakeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 12:59 PM
  #90
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,042
vCash: 500
So, what does Hockey Quebec do that's different than other programs?

This "Hockey Quebec" answer seems plausible, as I recall one time on Marinaro's show there was a similar discussion. The question posed by Marinaro to his audienece was not about Quebec's representation in the NHL but rather why minor Ontario teams come to Quebec hockey tournaments and almost always lay a drubbing on Quebec teams.

One caller (a coach IIRC) pointed out that Quebec's record is abysmal at younger levels but gets more in line with the country's other programs in later age groups .

Just throwing this out there. Could it be that there is a coaching and development problem at an early age that gets kids off to a slow start and impacts the quantity of good players available later.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 01:34 PM
  #91
katatoniak
Registered User
 
katatoniak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jonquiere, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,223
vCash: 500
I still dont understand why there's never a big physical defenseman out of the Q ...

katatoniak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 01:40 PM
  #92
Forsead
Registered User
 
Forsead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Québec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by katatoniak View Post
I still dont understand why there's never a big physical defenseman out of the Q ...
The last one was like Denis Gauthier

Forsead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 01:56 PM
  #93
Stanley Cup
Bettman's ice bucket
 
Stanley Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Quebec City
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,595
vCash: 58
There they are :

http://cg2011.gems.pro/Result/MedalList.aspx

and look at the amount of individual medals in the 2010 Olympics won by Québécois, it's called progress

Stanley Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 02:06 PM
  #94
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Quebec would be the perfect place to abandon their current systems and go straight to a scholastic system. All children, male and female should have the choice to learn hockey in elementary school and play in a competitive yet fun environment.

I can't stand private institutions like how we run our hockey in Canada. It would be nice to see Quebec be the first to separate themselves from it and let the rest of Canada follow suit.
You want it to be like the United States where universities become football mills, where schools (both prep schools and colleges) revolve around getting athletic money at the expense of education? Should McGill try to be more the Alabama of Canada instead of the Harvard?

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 02:10 PM
  #95
The Kremelin Wall*
the krEMELIN wall
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Cup View Post
There they are :

http://cg2011.gems.pro/Result/MedalList.aspx

and look at the amount of individual medals in the 2010 Olympics won by Québécois, it's called progress
Half of those are probably females, and another half of the half are likely people who would not have been successful hockey players. That's a lame excuse for why hockey has been on the decline in Québec for the past few decades.

The Kremelin Wall* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 02:26 PM
  #96
Stanley Cup
Bettman's ice bucket
 
Stanley Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Quebec City
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,595
vCash: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Half of those are probably females, and another half of the half are likely people who would not have been successful hockey players. That's a lame excuse for why hockey has been on the decline in Québec for the past few decades.
Investments go elsewhere, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Hockey isn't the only sport out there. Football is getting big over here, secondary schools have great programs and it's real nice to see.

Stanley Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 02:49 PM
  #97
snakeye
Registered User
 
snakeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,786
vCash: 500
Anyone remember the story of Sean couturier?

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=787839

snakeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 03:33 PM
  #98
HabsByTheBay
Registered User
 
HabsByTheBay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Country: United States
Posts: 1,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Cup View Post
Investments go elsewhere, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Hockey isn't the only sport out there. Football is getting big over here, secondary schools have great programs and it's real nice to see.
Yay, football is big in Quebec. Who knows, maybe there will be more JP Darches who can be long snappers for crappy NFL teams.

HabsByTheBay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 03:52 PM
  #99
Stanley Cup
Bettman's ice bucket
 
Stanley Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Quebec City
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,595
vCash: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsByTheBay View Post
Yay, football is big in Quebec. Who knows, maybe there will be more JP Darches who can be long snappers for crappy NFL teams.
You seem to care a lot about Quebec players for someone from London. Besides, we want kids to have fun and move, we don't see them becoming pro as 12 years old teenagers.

Stanley Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2011, 05:22 PM
  #100
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 21,726
vCash: 500
There are several factors. You watch the Q and there's not a lot of physicality. When was the last time the Q produced a power forward? Claude Lemieux? Where are the big, mean kids going, in Football?

Another reason, there's not a lot of Quebecers in important management jobs in the league. There are what 30 teams in this league, most of the guys running these teams comes from Ontario and the West. Let's face it, when you want to give some kid a chance, you're gonna hire the people that you know. If you spend all your time in Ontario, you gonna know players from there and when you have a need to fill a place you hire that player that you may have seen at some point. Let's face it, the magority of the players in this league are average, the stars comprised a minority of your line-up. Most of the time you need a third, fourth D and grinders for forwards. And these jobs belong to guys from Ontario and the West. And there's no reason why Quebecers could not do as good as job as these guys. You can't make me believe that Steve Bernier who is the minors wouldn't do as good a job as Travis Moen and anybody else in this league in the third/fourth line position. We may hate Mathieu Darche but he can play in the NHL and before the Habs hired him he was in the AHL and never gotten a real chance. Yet he's no different than any other grinders outthere.

Kimota is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.