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3 Stars & GBR: Game 17 @ Montreal Canadiens

View Poll Results: 3 Stars?
Artem Anisimov 3 3.53%
Martin Biron 6 7.06%
Ryan Callahan 4 4.71%
Andre Deveaux 39 45.88%
Brandon Dubinsky 6 7.06%
Steve Eminger 4 4.71%
Marian Gaborik 7 8.24%
Dan Girardi 5 5.88%
Ryan McDonagh 4 4.71%
Brandon Prust 18 21.18%
Brad Richards 2 2.35%
Michael Sauer 5 5.88%
Derek Stepan 5 5.88%
Jeff Woywitka 7 8.24%
Other 43 50.59%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-20-2011, 06:03 AM
  #101
WhiskeySeven
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Habs fans here, Rags are my 2nd team though. I don't get why y'all are hating on Habs fans so much, you sound like Bostononians whenever they lose.

Montreal is built to DRAW penalties with their speed on the breakout and puck, they're not built to go toe-to-toe with tough teams, and they are a pretty clean, hardworking team and don't have an institution of diving like some would say the Canes and Canucks have.

This factor will obviously make it seem like the refs favor them but that's false, Montreal was the most penalized team last year (in terms of minors, I think) it's just that teams try to out-muscle them (which is a viable strategy) and they're built for the rope-a-dope (which is also a viable strategy) and PP efficiency. They're not going to just take the abuse and let other teams steamroll over them... they're told to keep skating after a hook/dirty hit and draw the call - which is NOT embellishment, NOT diving and NOT against any hockey code.

Onto the Rangers: I haven't caught much of them but Richards was pretty invisible all game, what's up with that? Gabs had a bad year last year, how's he looking so far?

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Old
11-20-2011, 06:25 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Wraparounds View Post
Guys I won't count other unless you specify a player I didn't list - and the player actually had to play in the game for the Rangers.
Bull ****! I think you should out it as an indicator that nobody played good

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Old
11-20-2011, 07:14 AM
  #103
GrangerX
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Originally Posted by varanger94 View Post
My thoughts completely. You saved me a lot of typing. As bad as the team played, as a viewer, these Refs made watching this game an even bigger nightmare. I hope that Auger( that's pronounced Ohshaa French Canadian style ) and Jackson, enjoyed their Hockey Night in Canada. I can't watch another game in that arena. It's the same thing every time.
Minor penalties last 4 seasons in Montreal before last night:

New York: 39
Montreal: 39

I know it's easy for fans of opposing teams to simply blame the referees every time they lose in Montreal, but the HNIC/Montreal excuse gets comical after a while. What exactly is "the same thing every time", or am I to take it that when you are on the right end of a 9-2 penalty layout, this constitutes "proper" officiating, but when its 39-39 it's an example of you getting screwed in Montreal year after year? Yeah we had more power plays this game because we were skating you into the ice...just like you had us on the back foot in New York for most of that game.

I actually came to the thread to congratulate the Rangers on a great start and thank them for winning me a nice chunk of change the last couple of weeks, but if blaming the HNIC/Montreal boogey man works for you go with it..hear it from Boston and Philly fans every time they lose up here also. Kind of like the myth of the "french canadian" rule that gets thrown around everywhere.

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Old
11-20-2011, 07:39 AM
  #104
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Not much to say about this game, just an awful effort.

I am not too surprised that we lost though. We have been lucky to win 7 in a row even if we really havnt played all that well. Our streak could have ended several games ago.

Hope this team at some point will be able to show a full 60 minute effort, perhaps in a few games in a row. Then I wouldnt mind losing as much as I do when we show no guts on the ice like last night.

Deveaux and Woy get my votes simply because they were the only ones that showed anything close to effort.

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Old
11-20-2011, 07:57 AM
  #105
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kinda not surprised, playing the Habs in Montreal after sitting since Tuesday, they looked like a team that hasn't played a game in awhile

Oh well, it happens, go win the next two

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Old
11-20-2011, 08:04 AM
  #106
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Ish happens. Bright side: Philly, Pens and Washington lost.

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11-20-2011, 08:13 AM
  #107
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Ish happens. Bright side: Philly, Pens and Washington lost.
Exactly how I feel- not to mention Pitt and Philly have 2 more points and 2 and 3 games at hand respectively.

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Old
11-20-2011, 08:25 AM
  #108
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Hard to be mad when most of us saw it coming, perfect storm for an abortion of a game.

They could easily go on a bad losing streak here too considering the opponents.

Brace for impact.

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Old
11-20-2011, 08:57 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerX View Post
Minor penalties last 4 seasons in Montreal before last night:

New York: 39
Montreal: 39


I know it's easy for fans of opposing teams to simply blame the referees every time they lose in Montreal, but the HNIC/Montreal excuse gets comical after a while. What exactly is "the same thing every time", or am I to take it that when you are on the right end of a 9-2 penalty layout, this constitutes "proper" officiating, but when its 39-39 it's an example of you getting screwed in Montreal year after year? Yeah we had more power plays this game because we were skating you into the ice...just like you had us on the back foot in New York for most of that game.

I actually came to the thread to congratulate the Rangers on a great start and thank them for winning me a nice chunk of change the last couple of weeks, but if blaming the HNIC/Montreal boogey man works for you go with it..hear it from Boston and Philly fans every time they lose up here also. Kind of like the myth of the "french canadian" rule that gets thrown around everywhere.
Anyone can just make up statistics and write 39-39 to make themselves right, but these are the facts.

MON- PP RAN- PP DATE
6 - 3 - 11-19-11
10/11 SEASON
7 - 7 - 1-15-11
4 - 6 - 2-5-11
09/10 SEASON
5 - 3 - 10-24-09
7 - 4 - 1-23-10
08/09 SEASON
5 - 4 - 12-4-08
6 - 4 - 3-17-09
40 - 31

40 to 31 is a little different than 39-39. These stats don't even take into account game situations like the PP given to the Rangers when the game is out of hand. It happened last night. If you can't post the truth, stay out of here.

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Old
11-20-2011, 09:08 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerX View Post
Minor penalties last 4 seasons in Montreal before last night:

New York: 39
Montreal: 39

:
Thats fine but how but counting up the bad penalties. THAT'd be interesting.

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Old
11-20-2011, 10:34 AM
  #111
GrangerX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varanger94 View Post
Anyone can just make up statistics and write 39-39 to make themselves right, but these are the facts.

MON- PP RAN- PP DATE
6 - 3 - 11-19-11
10/11 SEASON
7 - 7 - 1-15-11
4 - 6 - 2-5-11
09/10 SEASON
5 - 3 - 10-24-09
7 - 4 - 1-23-10
08/09 SEASON
5 - 4 - 12-4-08
6 - 4 - 3-17-09
40 - 31

40 to 31 is a little different than 39-39. These stats don't even take into account game situations like the PP given to the Rangers when the game is out of hand. It happened last night. If you can't post the truth, stay out of here.
Nice spin on the numbers...here is game by game the number of minor penalties called..and if you want we can list the number of 3rd period penalties called as well and list every penalty called , but bottom line is this:

2min= counted as 1 minor
4,5 min= counted a 2 minors

Jan. 15, 2011
Habs-6
Rangers-6

Feb. 5, 2011
Habs-6
Rangers-4

October 24, 2009
Habs-2
Rangers-4

January 23, 2010
Habs-4
Rangers-7

December 4, 2008
Habs-4
Rangers-5

March17, 2009
Habs-4
Rangers-6

February 3, 2008
Habs-5
Rangers-5

February 19, 2008
Habs-7
Rangers-4

Total:
Habs- 38
Rangers 41


So it appears we were both a bit off, but if you wanna believe that because we received a whopping 3 fewer minor penalties than you over the curse of 4 seasons, this is the reason why you have lost many of these games and there is a HNIC conspiracy against your disadvantaged American squad then so be it. Basically though it's just whining. On top of it, the team on the front foot in hockey games usually draws more penalties...you remember the 9-2 game earlier this year in your favour, although I'm sure you'd probably tell me that was an example of "fair" refereeing unlike last night. There were some bad calls against the Habs but for the most part they took penalites n the game in NYC because they were being outskated.

And the fact you're harping on refereeing in a game where you scored 0 goals and got completely outplayed is pretty telling...sounds no different than any other biased fan who thinks when his team wins it was because they deserved it and when they lose it's the refs fault. I'm sure if you checked the Habs board after the last game the same arguments were being made in reverse.

Like I say though on the "we get screwed by HNIC" every time we lose...no different than Boston and Philly fans...par for the course.

As for good and bad penalties like the other poster brought up, that 's again nothing more than hockey fan bias. Penalties called on my team..bad..penalties called on other team..good..with some slight variations, it pretty much goes like that in 30 cities across the league.

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Old
11-20-2011, 10:37 AM
  #112
Megustaelhockey
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Never mind. Have a nice day, Canadiens fans.


Last edited by Megustaelhockey: 11-20-2011 at 10:38 AM. Reason: I don't feel like getting an infraction related to this game.
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Old
11-20-2011, 10:44 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varanger94 View Post
Anyone can just make up statistics and write 39-39 to make themselves right, but these are the facts.

MON- PP RAN- PP DATE
6 - 3 - 11-19-11
10/11 SEASON
7 - 7 - 1-15-11
4 - 6 - 2-5-11
09/10 SEASON
5 - 3 - 10-24-09
7 - 4 - 1-23-10
08/09 SEASON
5 - 4 - 12-4-08
6 - 4 - 3-17-09
40 - 31

40 to 31 is a little different than 39-39. These stats don't even take into account game situations like the PP given to the Rangers when the game is out of hand. It happened last night. If you can't post the truth, stay out of here.
Here is a real fact. The last time the two teams played, the Rangers had 9 power plays and the Canadians had 2.

Did you whine about that disparity, then?

This idea that the Rangers are being jobbed by higher forces exposes idiots (not talking about you). Look around these boards. Every fanbase thinks they are getting the short end of the stick when it comes to the refs. What a coincidence.

The Rangers lost. End of story. Sometimes the teams we root for lose.

Another amazing thing is that when a team loses, it never has anything to do with the other team playing well. It's always that "our" guys played poorly. Funny how that works.

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Old
11-20-2011, 11:06 AM
  #114
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Seemed like the team we saw at the beginning of the season last night. A team unable to create something. Let's hope it won't last for another game.
Noone is player of the game. They all sucked last night.

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Old
11-20-2011, 11:16 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Here is a real fact. The last time the two teams played, the Rangers had 9 power plays and the Canadians had 2.

Did you whine about that disparity, then?

This idea that the Rangers are being jobbed by higher forces exposes idiots (not talking about you). Look around these boards. Every fanbase thinks they are getting the short end of the stick when it comes to the refs. What a coincidence.

The Rangers lost. End of story. Sometimes the teams we root for lose.

Another amazing thing is that when a team loses, it never has anything to do with the other team playing well. It's always that "our" guys played poorly. Funny how that works.
Right on...

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Old
11-20-2011, 11:17 AM
  #116
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I ran the numbers for my blog today, for all HNIC games, post-lockout

Will post here...

Montreal - 29 Power Plays for, 35 Power Plays against, 8 games
Toronto - 38 for, 37 against, 8 games
Ottawa -25 for, 26 against, 6 games
Calgary - 3 for, 3 against, 1 game
Edmonton - 10 for, 11 against, 2 games
Vancouver - No games on HNIC in Vancouver

Surprised me, I thought the differentials would be way more negative.

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Old
11-20-2011, 11:34 AM
  #117
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We didn't lose this game because of the officiating. We lost because we deserved to lose.

It happens. All you can really say is that its a good thing we got a bunch of questionable calls against us in a game we would've lost anyways.

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Old
11-20-2011, 11:36 AM
  #118
varanger94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerX View Post
Nice spin on the numbers...here is game by game the number of minor penalties called..and if you want we can list the number of 3rd period penalties called as well and list every penalty called , but bottom line is this:

2min= counted as 1 minor
4,5 min= counted a 2 minors

Jan. 15, 2011
Habs-6
Rangers-6

Feb. 5, 2011
Habs-6
Rangers-4

October 24, 2009
Habs-2
Rangers-4

January 23, 2010
Habs-4
Rangers-7

December 4, 2008
Habs-4
Rangers-5

March17, 2009
Habs-4
Rangers-6

February 3, 2008
Habs-5
Rangers-5

February 19, 2008
Habs-7
Rangers-4

Total:
Habs- 38
Rangers 41


So it appears we were both a bit off, but if you wanna believe that because we received a whopping 3 fewer minor penalties than you over the curse of 4 seasons, this is the reason why you have lost many of these games and there is a HNIC conspiracy against your disadvantaged American squad then so be it. Basically though it's just whining. On top of it, the team on the front foot in hockey games usually draws more penalties...you remember the 9-2 game earlier this year in your favour, although I'm sure you'd probably tell me that was an example of "fair" refereeing unlike last night. There were some bad calls against the Habs but for the most part they took penalites n the game in NYC because they were being outskated.

And the fact you're harping on refereeing in a game where you scored 0 goals and got completely outplayed is pretty telling...sounds no different than any other biased fan who thinks when his team wins it was because they deserved it and when they lose it's the refs fault. I'm sure if you checked the Habs board after the last game the same arguments were being made in reverse.

Like I say though on the "we get screwed by HNIC" every time we lose...no different than Boston and Philly fans...par for the course.

As for good and bad penalties like the other poster brought up, that 's again nothing more than hockey fan bias. Penalties called on my team..bad..penalties called on other team..good..with some slight variations, it pretty much goes like that in 30 cities across the league.
Skew the stats anyway you like. I went through each game and counted 2 minute minors only not 5 minute majors. 40-31and you conveniently left out last nights game.


On 10-24-09 5 PP's for the Canadians and 3 for the Rangers http://rangers.nhl.com/club/boxscore.htm?id=2009020130

On 12-4-08 Canadians 5 PP's Rangers 3. Gomez played for us then. http://rangers.nhl.com/club/boxscore.htm?id=2008020366



Last edited by varanger94: 11-20-2011 at 12:01 PM.
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Old
11-20-2011, 12:05 PM
  #119
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meh. crappy end to a 7 game win streak.

the redden: playing marian gaborik in fantasy and keeping taylor hall on the bench when he got a hat trick

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11-20-2011, 12:30 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerX View Post
I actually came to the thread to congratulate the Rangers on a great start and thank them for winning me a nice chunk of change the last couple of weeks, but if blaming the HNIC/Montreal boogey man works for you go with it..hear it from Boston and Philly fans every time they lose up here also. Kind of like the myth of the "french canadian" rule that gets thrown around everywhere.
Don't worry, there are also fans posting in this thread who think that a thread being posted about Gaborik potentially reaching 50 goals actually affected him by preventing him from scoring any more.

I suggest you say what you came to say and accept that every fanbase, especially one as large as the Rangers', will have fans who simply lack the ability to have a rational discussion.

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Old
11-20-2011, 12:32 PM
  #121
GrangerX
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Originally Posted by varanger94 View Post
Skew the stats anyway you like. I went through each game and counted 2 minute minors only not 5 minute majors. 40-31and you conveniently left out last nights game.


On 10-24-09 5 PP's for the Canadians and 3 for the Rangers http://rangers.nhl.com/club/boxscore.htm?id=2009020130

On 12-4-08 Canadians 5 PP's Rangers 3. Gomez played for us then. http://rangers.nhl.com/club/boxscore.htm?id=2008020366

10/24/09

1ST PERIOD
None
2ND PERIOD
06:44 Spacek, 2 min, Tripping
09:17 Drury, 2 min, Holding
14:16 D'Agostini, 5 min, Fighting
14:16 Boyle, 5 min, Fighting
14:16 Prospal, 2 min, Elbowing
14:41 Higgins, 2 min, High-Sticking
3RD PERIOD
04:10 Del Zotto, 2 min, Tripping
05:22 Gomez, 2 min, Diving/Embellishment

Spacek 2 min + Gomez 2 mins= Habs 2 minors
Drury 2 min+ Prospal 2 mins+ Higgins 2 mins +Del Zotto 2 mins= Rangers 4 minors


And even if your game stats are correct (mine are from CBSSports.com) and it's 3-5 and not 2-4, it is still a plus 2 differential for the Rangers which is what I had listed, so how exactly am I "skewing" the stats?..LOL....I mean are you serious?


12-4-08

1ST PERIOD
05:23 Mara, 2 min, Tripping
13:21 Voros, 2 min, Roughing
2ND PERIOD
09:01 Dandenault, 2 min, Tripping
10:58 Lapierre, 5 min, Fighting
10:58 Prucha, 5 min, Fighting
11:45 Begin, 2 min, Hooking
15:51 Koivu, 4 min, Roughing
15:51 Gomez, 4 min, Roughing
3RD PERIOD
13:19 Gomez, 2 min, Cross-Checking

Dandenault 2 min + Begin 2 mins +Koivu 4 mins (2 minors)= 4 minors

Mara 2 min +Voros 2 min+ Gomez 4 min (2 minors) + Gomez 2 mins= 5 minors


I "convenently" left out last night's game because it is offset by the game in NYC which you "conveniently" seem to have stricken from memory...a 9-2 penalty count in your favour in one of the most lopsided penalty differentials in recent memory. The two kind of balance out, and any rational observation of the 2 games would conclude that in each, the better team won.

Dude your numbers are wrong..and the fact that somehow 7 Habs minors got wiped from your list is again a function of the victim complex you apparently suffer from vis a vis Canadian teams you play on the road or on HNIC. But hey..never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Nice photo though..good one.


Last edited by GrangerX: 11-20-2011 at 12:50 PM.
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11-20-2011, 12:41 PM
  #122
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Thankfully I was so busy at work yesterday that I couldnt watch or listen to the game. Sounded like a complete disaster.

Looking forward to a big bounce back game vs the Panthers.

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11-20-2011, 12:43 PM
  #123
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The Rangers played poorly, the Habs played well. The penalty disparity was the result of the poorly playing team struggling to keep up with the well playing team. Simple as that.

**** happens - they lost. Most winning streaks end like this. The key will be: do they bounce back and play with the energy we saw during the streak? Or do they now settle into a beginning of the season type funk? If they do the former, this is the good team I think they are. If they do the latter, well, that points to a team that may finish in the middle of the pack again this year.

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11-20-2011, 01:00 PM
  #124
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When it comes to reporting the number of penalties assessed to either team in a series/in Montreal/in New York/HNIC game, statistics will never give you the full picture.

Number of penalties assessed usually don't include number of 3rd period penalties (unless someone does quite a bit more work investigating the game records) and no matter how much research one does of box scores, you can never take into account penalties assessed at pivotal moments in a game. This is the same problem when looking at how Pittsburgh seems to benefit from favorable officiating yet somehow appear to be penalized the same if not more than other teams.

(Also does not take into account the "gimme" penalties assessed when the game has already been decided and is out of reach for the other team).

Did the Rangers lose last nights game because of officiating? Absolutely not. And I don't think any rational fan would blame the refs for last nights loss. But were the refs good last night? Absolutely not.

It seems to be a huge pattern whenever the Rangers play in Pittsburgh or Montreal that we seem to be on the short end of the stick with penalties assessed at pivotal moments in a game. Anyone remember the Pitt game last year around this time?

HNIC games are always suspect to me when the Rangers play in Montreal or Toronto (but especially Montreal). And likewise, any Sunday NBC game where the Rangers play in Pittsburgh. I don't think it is some tinfoil hat nonsense -- just a pattern I've come to notice since the lockout. Are the refs always factors? No, but they seem to be more often than the norm during these occasions.

Again I want to emphasize that I am in no way blaming the refs for last nights loss, but they were pretty much in Montreal's pocket for most of that game. Had the Rangers actually shown up to play and at least scored a goal or two, that may have been a different story.

But leave it to Habs fans to invade our boards after every win and try to troll-bait us (or as I like to say on these boards, infraction-bait us) under the guise of "congratulating us on a nice effort" or a "nice start to the season" so that their presence here is legitimized in the eyes of the moderators. These same people then usually devolve into some statistic war or some cultural (french canadian vs. American) war and ruin it for the handful of respectable Habs fans that actually do genuinely want to talk Hockey civilly.

Hope the Rangers give a better effort next time and I'll leave it at that.

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Old
11-20-2011, 01:13 PM
  #125
CHGoalie27
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I voted Deveaux and other LOL

Avery under 10 mins TOI and the best goalie in the world sat in the middle of a hot streak?? Smart.

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