They lost Maholm, remember? And the cost of 'upgrading' to Rod Barajas and Clint Barmes was a good chunk of the money it would have cost to pick up the option on Maholm. That is the kind of thing I am talking about.
Well, Maholm isn't gone yet, I know the chances of him signing with the Pirates are very slim, but you never know, and if he does leave, he will be replaced. Either Brad Lincoln would be added to the rotation or we sign a LHP. Rumor on TIOPS said that Jeff Francis' agent reached out to the Pirates. He is not as good as Maholm but I think they had a similar ERA and W/L record. He is coming off of a 1 year, $2 million deal with the Royals so he seems cheap.
We could sign Albert Pujols to a minor-league deal and you'd find some way to turn into into a giant negative.
It gets old. And, for the millionth time, Maholm will be replaced via free agency...just like Cedeno and Doumit were. I'm sure the guy we replace him with will be an infectious leper, though.
Well, it'd be great for Indy if they did that, but how does it help Pittsburgh?
Barmes is an upgrade over Cedeno both offensively and defensively, even when you consider that Barmes will regress a little next year. Plus, they have him locked up in 2013 when he'll bounce back. Is the upgrade worth what they spent to get it? Debatable. But at least they're trying to make the team better.
Well, it'd be great for Indy if they did that, but how does it help Pittsburgh?
Well obviously it would include an invite to Spring Training, where Pujols may be able to eek out Matt Hague for a job. Maybe.
Playoff brackets announced earlier today...
I'm fine with that as a Montana fan...that's the most laughable #1 ever, but they were undefeated...against an NAIA caliber schedule, but whatever. Montana hosts either a Southland team or an OVC team in our first game...Southland teams have a tendency to lose by 50 when they play here and Tennessee Tech just isn't that impressive. A home date with UNI in the quarterfinals likely awaits, and I like our odds against a dome team in the middle of December.
Montana State got a pretty rough draw (New Hampshire got screwed worse, in my opinion...their reward for beating Maine yesterday is a tougher first round opponent and an additional ~1,700 miles of travel), but if the Bobcats can bounce back (which I expect) they may have a fairly solid chance of winning a quarterfinal game against Sam Houston State...I just don't think the Bearkats are 'for real' considering the strength of that schedule. Southland teams have been getting beaten up on a regular basis in the playoffs the past 6 or 7 years. If Sam Houston continues on for long it'll solely be because of that seed allowing them to stay in Texas for the entirety of the playoffs (home field up to the championship game, which is in a suburb of Dallas, which is closer to Huntsville than UM and MSU are to each other).
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“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick
Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 11-20-2011 at 01:11 PM.
State deserves a rough draw after the game they played yesterday.
What does the selection committee have against Old Dominion and Norfolk State? Are they just giving their bye week to App State because of App State's reputation?
Barmes deal is now official at 10.5 for 2 years. It's a bit of a gamble, I think, given Barmes' age and the fact that he's a pull-happy player. It's probably the best gamble available, and if can hit for the next two years like he did last year, it will be a big improvement.
I've been absent from all the discussions, but I'm not a fan of Maholm being let go. I think it's probably a step backwards, even though Maholm's only an above average pitcher. He's replaceable, but that's kind of the point--the Pirates need to add better players, not replace ones that they allow to leave.
Still way too early to say much about the offseason.
Barmes deal is now official at 10.5 for 2 years. It's a bit of a gamble, I think, given Barmes' age and the fact that he's a pull-happy player. It's probably the best gamble available, and if can hit for the next two years like he did last year, it will be a big improvement.
I've been absent from all the discussions, but I'm not a fan of Maholm being let go. I think it's probably a step backwards, even though Maholm's only an above average pitcher. He's replaceable, but that's kind of the point--the Pirates need to add better players, not replace ones that they allow to leave.
Still way too early to say much about the offseason.
Pretty much the point that I made above. The Pirates have limited assets, and could have kept all three for only a few million more than what they paid for a minor if any upgrade at catcher and shortstop. Then if they had dollars remaining use it to upgrade elsewhere where they had needs. Maybe bring in another bat, or let one of the three go and legitimately upgrade the position. The link I provided showed that Barmes has some real questions if his numbers will translate to be any sort of upgrade, especially at his age, but mostly because his numbers were hugely inflated by where he played.
Long and short is that I believe that the Pirates could have allocated their limited resources much more intelligently, even granted the disadvantages that they have signing players. And given their track record I have zero faith that they know something that the rest of us do not know.
The only bad thing about the Pirates being competitive at the trade deadline this past year is that trading Maholm wasn't an option. It would have been a PR nightmare and it would have been waving the white flag while right there in the race.
Had the Pirates downfall started a month earlier then Maholm would have been traded without a doubt. I don't think the return would have been huge, but it would have been something, which is significantly more than the nothing that we acquired. Tough situation there for Neal. I have made my point clear, though, that I think we should have picked up that option. I have little doubt that we can pick up a guy similar to Maholm's quality on the market for a couple million cheaper than Maholm would have cost...but we'd have Maholm for sure, instead we're bidding for the services of players that are probably far more interested in being a back-end starter on a true competitor than a #2/3 guy on the Pirates unless there's an extra year or extra money thrown in. Barmes getting $5.5 million isn't surprising whatsoever, but what made him a Pirate was that second season. It's going to take a multi-year deal to get someone like Jeff Francis (who I think will be the guy we end up with, we've shown a ton of interest in him in previous years and there's the Hurdle connection again) to sign here.
And one thing that is going to cause a stink, I'm sure, Francis' numbers are mediocre as hell on the surface, but he also spent most of his career as a pitcher at Coors Field and had a couple injury plagued seasons (that is why I'm wary of the multi-year deal, though he seems to have recovered nicely from arthroscopic shoulder surgery...he managed to avoid Tommy John Surgery, though he still missed more than a full season with the surgery). The metrics are far more kind to Francis than the traditional stats, as his FIP last year was 4.10 (ERA 4.82) and in 20 starts for Colorado the year before that it was 3.88 (ERA 5.00). Compare that to a guy on the opposite end of the spectrum for most of last year, Jeff Karstens, who's FIP was 4.29 (ERA 3.38). Maholm and Francis are extremely comparable pitchers, but Maholm is the better of the two. I'm going to have preferred Maholm regardless since I'm not expecting the money saved to be getting pumped back into the team, but if the difference between Maholm and Francis is 0.20 FIP and $4 million in salary it would make some degree of sense. A more easily forgivable difference if our owner wasn't a crook, but he is, so I'd rather have Maholm regardless.
The Pirates are going to be relying on their defense a lot to determine how good their pitchers are, which is one of the reasons why I am a fan of the Barmes deal. I have much more faith in Barmes to repeat his defensive numbers than I do in Cedeno, who was borderline bad defensively up until last year. Barmes' metrics have been drool-worthy for his entire career. Without even taking offense into things, it's a sizable upgrade at the position there. A lot of how effective this is will depend on who the 1B is. The difference between Lee and Overbay there last year was astronomical, and the best argument I can think of for heavily pursuing Lee (I have no doubt the Pirates have done so...it's more an issue of does Lee want to play here...if a real contender is going to give him decent change to play a rotation role is it going to be worth it to be full-time in Pittsburgh, at age 36? He does have a ring at least, but I wouldn't blame him for wanting to go to a competitor). The best option otherwise would likely represent a huge boost offensively, but below average defense (Carlos Pena's batting average is excused by his eye...his 101 walks last year was 5th in all of MLB...McCutchen was the only Pirate with more than 55 BBs last year).
It's still way too early to comment too much on the off-season, but as of right now we have upgraded two positions (yes, I consider Barajas an improvement over Doumit...mostly because I don't see Doumit as anything more than a DH at this point...his defense undoes most of his offensive positives in my eyes, and that injury proneness does play into things meaning you need a back-up capable of playing 80 games a year...oh, and...) and a bonus sandwich round pick (by chosing Barajas over Doumit we get a free pick somewhere in the 32-60 range)...so we're ahead of our usual off-season by a good deal, at least. The more two most imporant questions remain to be answered though, with the veteran starter and 1B. So help me God if we go into the season with Garret Jones as 1B again...which I think may well happen if we do sign Willingham. Personally I'd rather go into the season with an OF of Presley-McCutchen-Tabata-Jones-???? and 1B of Pena or Lee than I would with an OF of Willingham-McCutchen-Tabata-Presley-???? and 1B of Jones.
Oh yeah, Baseball America updated their Top 10 Pirates Prospects list here.
1. Gerrit Cole, rhp
2. Jameson Taillon, rhp
3. Josh Bell, of
4. Starling Marte, of
5. Luis Heredia, rhp
6. Kyle McPherson, rhp
7. Tony Sanchez, c
8. Robbie Grossman, of
9. Stetson Allie, rhp
10. Jeff Locke, lhp
As Tim Williams said over at Pirates Prospects, there's two clear tiers (1-5 & 6-10) that most people are going to have the same prospects with, but in differing orders. I'm rather shocked that Kyle McPherson has jumped that highly in the eyes of John Perrotto, but it's really hard to argue with him being atop that second tier. McPherson gives us some hope of salvaging something from that 2007 draft, as our 14th rounder. His stats have been consistently improving as he's gone through the minors, elevating into great last year. I'm not willing to put him above Grossman (who went into full beast mode in the second half of the season and made the Fall League his *****, for lack of a better term) or Allie (just sheer upside...McPherson has a far better chance of being a 3/4 starter in the majors than Allie does of being a 1/2...but Allie, 20, has that upside and McPherson, 24, doesn't). If Allie doesn't show marked improvements in the low minors next year and McPherson can bring his talents to AAA without a drop-off then I'd consider making the switch.
I'll get around to doing a far more in-depth analysis sometime next month, but my top 10 as of today...
1. RHP Gerrit Cole
2. LHP Jameson Taillon
3. OF Josh Bell
4. OF Starling Marte
5. RHP Luis Heredia
6. OF Robbie Grossman
7. RHP Stetson Allie
8. LHP Jeff Locke
9. C Tony Sanchez
10. RHP Kyle McPherson
McPherson could ratchet himself up, as I said, with solid numbers at AAA. I am a Locke fan, and the lefty factor honestly does play into me ranking him above McPherson. Sanchez is coming off a lousy year after what was basically a lost year...he needs to have a good year in Indianapolis this year. The clock isn't quite ticking on him, he's still only 23 and has a history of great numbers outside of last year, but his star is starting to fade and he's looking more and more like that defense-first catcher with average offense than that dual threat he looked like before he took two fastballs to the face within a month.
Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 11-21-2011 at 02:52 PM.
I'm leaning towards preferring Pena, just because of the consistency that he gets on base (OBP of .352 in his career; .357 last year, no less than 87 walks in the past 5 seasons, even with that miserable .196 average in 2010) and the fact that he's a consistent and legitimate power threat (HR totals last 5 years: 46, 31, 39, 28, 28).
Lee's post trade stats were ridiculous this year...and unsustainable. I'll be thrilled with either...but I expect Pena would be good for an extra 10 HRs and 25 OBP points...plus Pena is more apt for a workhorse role, playing at least 135 games the past 5 years. Lee would provide better defense and, likely, better veteran leadership...so they both have their series of pros and cons. Settle for anyone less and I'll be disappointed. Everyone knows Alvarez is going to be moving to first eventually, but he needs to prove he's good enough to be in the line-up before we can worry about what position he's playing.
So what are the expectations of the Bucs this season? 0.500? And not a wishful 0.500, but anything less than that being a disappointment?
The Pirates are very likely to lose 100 plus games this upcoming year. The pitching had an amazing, and unsustainable, start to the year and should come back to earth, especially after losing Maholm. The offense was putrid and I see nothing done which will make them less so this upcoming year. Some may quibble with the above, but 90 or 100 losses, I do not see how anyone can reasonably expect anything better given the team and the moves made.
What really sucks is that the new CBA has only scewed the Pirates more. The one thing that management did take advantage of, spending on the draft, is now closed to them. They will ironically enough either be paying a 'luxury tax' for overspending on the draft, or more likely just go back to spending next to nothing anywhere. How baseball could come up with a CBA that actually made things worse for Pirates fans is beyond me but they managed it.
The Pirates are very likely to lose 100 plus games this upcoming year. The pitching had an amazing, and unsustainable, start to the year and should come back to earth, especially after losing Maholm. The offense was putrid and I see nothing done which will make them less so this upcoming year. Some may quibble with the above, but 90 or 100 losses, I do not see how anyone can reasonably expect anything better given the team and the moves made.
What really sucks is that the new CBA has only scewed the Pirates more. The one thing that management did take advantage of, spending on the draft, is now closed to them. They will ironically enough either be paying a 'luxury tax' for overspending on the draft, or more likely just go back to spending next to nothing anywhere. How baseball could come up with a CBA that actually made things worse for Pirates fans is beyond me but they managed it.
Such a great point Jaded... I agree with your sentiments above too.
Let's see - we took 2-3 steps back in the Pitching department and downgraded our (already floundering) offense. If that roster doesn't scream 100 losses to you... then you need to give me whatever you're drinking. lol.
Re: MLB CBA... I agree. The state of baseball is so utterly ridiculous that it's almost comical.
Want a prime example? Pujols, Prince Fielder, and Jose Reyes will hit the free agent market this offseason. Guess who will end up signing them?
No - wait... let me rephrase that. Guess which team will even have a CHANCE of signing them?
Hint: Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies
In the land of the MLB, the rich get rich and the poor get poorer each and every year.
So what are the expectations of the Bucs this season? 0.500? And not a wishful 0.500, but anything less than that being a disappointment?
Impossible to say at this point...we're still lacking what I expect to be about $12-15 million in free agents for next year at two positions. As it stands, this is a 100 loss team...but that's also a team that has Garret Jones as a starting first baseman and Gorkys Hernandez as the top reserve outfielder. This isn't the roster we'll be breaking into the season with, and with the way the MLB off-season is we're not going to really know for long.
There's just so many variables right now. The biggest one is one that's already on the team...we got nothing positive out of Pedro Alvarez this past year. If he bounces back that is a huge addition, if he doesn't then we're just as poor there as we were last year, as Harrison is nothing more than a utilityman. We're also a year closer to the youngsters making it to the majors. Last year we didn't have any top prospects close to making their debuts felt aside from those that were already in the Majors at the end of 2009. This year we're not looking at anyone coming in from camp, but we could see some push their way in by the end of the season, Jeff Locke and possibly Tony Sanchez being at the forefront there. No one quite at the impact level, but the youngsters are getting closer. 2013 will be the big one there, with McPherson, Sanchez, Marte, and Cole likely to be coming around, with Grossman possibly making a push (to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Grossman spends less than a month in AA with the way things have been going with him the last 6 months).
We'll revisit that question in W-L terms when we know what the roster is going to look like. My expectations for the year is for the youngsters to develop...which means Tabata plays more like he did in the first half of last year than the second half, that means that Presley establishes himself as more than just a flash in the pan, that means Pedro Alvarez see the Wizard of Oz and gets himself some courage, that means one of the bubble AAA arms puts themselves in a position where it's impossible to keep them out of the rotation, it means at least one of those other bubble AAA arms establishes themselves in the bullpen (preferably Moskos), it means the youngsters in the minors don't get hit in the face twice in a month or blow their arms out. My expectations this time last year for the Pirates were very much the same, but I expect the Pirates to break camp next year with more talent than we did last year. I'm not holding my breath for .500 right now. It seems completely redundant to say we're in a rebuilding mode, since we've been in one for 19 years now, but the rebuild started anew when that dumbass Littlefield was fired. Huntington took over a team with no talent on the roster and a barren system...it was going to be more of a 7 year plan than a 5 year one because of that. Next year is year 5, I expect progress. 2013 will be year 6, where we're going to start to see the Huntington picks making the team in heavy numbers, I expect progress. 2014 will be year 7, where the youngsters in the system right now will start to make it and will compliment the ones that came before them. I'm watching this rebuild with the highest possible ceiling being reached. I'm far more interested in making a legitimate run in 2014/15 than I am in pushing assets around to make a run for .500 in 2012. I know that's extremely hard for a lot of people to do, and it's extremely hard for me to have the continued patience of Job with this franchise...but they are doing the rebuild properly right now. I didn't have this patience with the prior two GMs. Anyone that's been here long enough knows my weekly rants about Littlefield know that my temperance with this team hasn't always been so good.
If they retard the rebuilding process to make a push at .500 I'll be furious. .500 doesn't matter to me, a push at a title matters to me...and the only way a team like the Pirates is ever going to do that is by having a perfect rebuild. That said, we're starting to get to the position where we can afford to trade away some excess youth talent to improve the Major League roster for the first time...those players traded off just can't be the blue-chippers. Trades are going to be inevitable moving forward, as the Pirates strategy has been to build from the starting rotation and the outfield. The naysayers like to point out that we're organizationally weak in the infield, but I respond that, unless you're talking about elite talents, pitching and outfielders carry more value. The turnover on MLB rosters is ridiculous (the longest tenured player currently on the Pirates roster: Evan Meek), and that is going to continue with the Pirates heavily until we start to see the youngsters establish themselves.
Honest question Big McLargehuge, as we can have a reasonable discussion without most of it being you slamming me for being a Pirate hater and little else.
Do you not expect that the minors should have produced more by now, or have more even in the lower minors, than it does, given the much advertised 'we spend so much overslot money' sing song, and the constant trades for minor league players. This supposed 'restocking' of the system, did you not expect more by now? Granted, it takes time for players to develope, etc, etc., but aside from the beyond obvious high firsts and a couple of players like Allie that they threw money at, is the minors showing all that much, even at the lower levels? Honest question more than a slam, and maybe you might have an answer as you know the system better than I do. But it seems pretty subpar aside from the glitz at the top of the draft to me. It actually disappointed me that we had virtually no one of value to protect in the rule five draft that we might worry about losing. By now we should have had so much talent coming up that we should have had a painful choice or two. And that worries me for the next few years that we did not. And beyond? The lower minors should have a lot more to show for all that money thrown at the draft and trades with only minor league players coming back.
Let's see - we took 2-3 steps back in the Pitching department and downgraded our (already floundering) offense.
I don't even know why I bother responding to you on this subject, but I continue to do so.
2-3 steps back on pitching? How? For the millionth time, Maholm will be replaced by someone other than Brad Lincoln. Maholm is literally the only player of any relevance that has been removed.
And the downgraded offense is just so laughable it's hilarious. Lee will be replaced, possibly by Derrek Lee. There's going to be another veteran signing in there somewhere else (likely 4th outfielder or security blanket at 3rd), Clint Barmes is an improvement over Cedeno offensively and defensively, and Barajas is actually competent with the bat at catcher, unlike the parade of catchers we had last year outside of Doumit, who can't stay healthy long enough to count...his stats look great, but when you only have 218 ABs in the season a hot streak will do wonders for your numbers). We got 10 home runs from the position last year, Barajas had 13 home runs in 49 road games last year (16 in 98 overall...Dodger Stadium is a killer on power numbers, and he's a pull guy to right...his numbers will be fine at PNC). It's literally going to be impossible for the Pirates to get less production than they did last year from 1st Base or 3rd Base. The Pirates got less than 25 home runs combined from the power corners last year. 3rd Base will be improved by the sheer fact that it literally can't be any worse than it was last year. 1st Base gave us nothing outside of 28 games of Derrek Lee and we don't even know who's going to be playing there yet...but somehow we're worse off offensively?
I just want to know what your line of thought is here. The Pirates are going to be anemic offensively, but I find it hard to believe that we can actually be worse at it next year than we just were this year. Even when the Pirates were winning we were winning games 3-2. 14th of 16 NL teams in almost every offensive category...come on, man.
Yeah I did not see an offensive downgrade. Though that is not sayng much given how bad that they were offensively last year. More a sidegrade, or overpay for a very modest upgrade was my complaint. Money that could ahve gone to signing Maholm and then spend the moeny elsewhere. The long and short of it is I do not see that they downgraded offensively. I also do not really see an upgrade though.
Honest question Big McLargehuge, as we can have a reasonable discussion without most of it being you slamming me for being a Pirate hater and little else.
Do you not expect that the minors should have produced more by now, or have more even in the lower minors, than it does, given the much advertised 'we spend so much overslot money' sing song, and the constant trades for minor league players. This supposed 'restocking' of the system, did you not expect more by now? Granted, it takes time for players to develope, etc, etc., but aside from the beyond obvious high firsts and a couple of players like Allie that they threw money at, is the minors showing all that much, even at the lower levels? Honest question more than a slam, and maybe you might have an answer as you know the system better than I do. But it seems pretty subpar aside from the glitz at the top of the draft to me. It actually disappointed me that we had virtually no one of value to protect in the rule five draft that we might worry about losing. By now we should have had so much talent coming up that we should have had a painful choice or two. And that worries me for the next few years that we did not. And beyond? The lower minors should have a lot more to show for all that money thrown at the draft and trades with only minor league players coming back.
Minor league records are utterly useless since the majority of players at any level are filler, even in the best system, so I'll cut that potential question off at the pass.
I don't really know what you're asking about with the low minors showing more...if you're talking about record, well as I said most players are filler without MLB potential on every level...it's what happens when a team has roughly 200 players under contract in some form or another. If we're talking about stats...player development is the focus of the minors, especially the low minors. That means that players aren't usually playing to their strengths, they're being coached on fixing their weaknesses. Pitcher deliveries are tweaked, third and fourth pitches are introduced, plate patience could be worked on for a batter that doesn't walk much (resulting in a huge spike in Ks), swings are tweaked, the timing is tweaked, everything about the low minors is about teaching the game to prepare for everything that comes after. Some top prospects will cut through the low minors like a knife through hot butter, but that's the exception that proves the rule. Stetson Allie was a professional rookie last year who was getting his delivery tweaked to limit the possibility of arm strain and he was getting a third pitch introduced as he was just a 2 pitch pitcher in high school (which isn't going to work in the Majors for a starter...if you have two great pitches you may not need to use the 3rd or 4th one too much, but one great one and one average one isn't enough for a starter...that's why a lot of people see Allie as a closer in the Majors. If he can't develop a 3rd pitch and stretch his arm out more he's going to be a reliever. Allie's low minor stats are, accordingly, going to be awful as he's so raw. Gerrit Cole, on the other hand, is only having very minor things being tweaked, and should make easy work of the minors. Taillon's development is going about as expected.
If you're concern is the amount of time it's taking...the Pirates, especially of late, are notorious for taking their time with prospects. Bonifay used to rush out anyone with talent, regardless of them being 19, but Huntington is more concerned with the player being able to step into the Majors and not miss a beat. Also, keep in mind, the Pirates 'bonus babies' have been prep kids. Most players make the Majors when they're 23-25. A lot of the Latin stars can make their impact felt sooner, but that's not too common from drafted players. Luis Heredia should be able to rise to through the Pirates system to make the team at a younger age than Taillon or Cole if everything goes properly...but he's also a professional at 16, while Taillon was 19 and Cole is 21. Stephen Strasburg, a complete and total freak of nature, was a month away from being 22 by the time he made it to the majors even with his extremely quick rise through the minors.
Back to my point...prep players take longer to develop because they're facing far lesser competition than collegiate players...to say nothing of the fact that they're 3-4 years younger on top of it. Most of the bonus babies aren't at a position in the minors where they can be anywhere near written off...Zach Von Rosenberg is an example of this. He was a bonus baby in the 2009 draft, the 2nd of Huntington's tenure. He has 41 professional games under his belt. I don't know what is expected out of a guy who just turned 21, but his team gave him no run support in his first minor league season and last year his stats got destroyed by a series of starts where he got beat up...but he showed marked improvement at the end of the year, his strikeout numbers went way up, and his walks went way down. It was a productive year for Von Rosenberg, by all accounts...but his stats look ugly and he's not fresh and new.
Another example would be Robbie Grossman, who was the first successful bonus baby coming in the 2008 draft. Grossman cost $1 million to sign from the 6th round. The biggest hype behind Grossman was his 'bull-like' approach to the game, his tireless work ethic, and him being a 4 tool outfielder (limited power). His star had started to fade after two mediocre statistical seasons in West Virginia and Bradenton, but he stayed in Bradenton for an extra year last year to work on his game...and after an average first half to the season he went into beast mode, posting a ridiculous .869 OPS...ridiculous because he is not a power hitter. His 13 HRs would represent his top-end potential in the Majors...but he's a doubles machine who walks constantly. 104 of them last year. He still strikes more than you'd like (111), which is a product largely of refining that eye of his than a bad swing. That also represented a huge drop from the prior 2 years, while the walks rose sharply as well (his first pro season consisted of 164 Ks and 75 BBs in 535 ABs). Then comes the Arizona Fall League, where he had an OPS of 1.097 in 104 at-bats. Grossman turned 22 in September...meaning he'll be 22 in AA before likely making a jump to AAA at some point in the year and a full season in AAA at 23. That's a very normal path to the Majors.
One other thing to remember with taking it slow with developing prospects, aside from the higher rate of long-term success, is that these guys free agency calender clicks when they're in the Majors...that's why the top prospects tend to come up in June instead of April or May, the team buys another year of arbitration by having them on the roster for only so many days in a season. It's prudent for a team like the Pirates to extend their prospects time with the team...so making sure that they can slide into the Majors and play well saves them time on the free agency clock on two fronts.
There's just not a lot of college guys amongst the top prospects, because most college players get drafted at around their value. The term 'bonus baby' only applies to players that you throw excessive money at to talk out of a college commitment. You're paying for raw talent and potential, not what has been proven. Prep players have a far lower success rate because they're so much further from MLB ready...but the potential return is just so great. Remember, that guy we just chose #1 this year...the New York Yankees also drafted him in the 1st round at one point and attempted to make him a bonus baby...but he couldn't be talked out of UCLA under any circumstance (a move that wound up making him about $4.5 million extra). There's only two top prospects during the Huntington era that he drafted out of college...one is Pedro Alvarez, who was looking great until whatever the hell that was last season, and Tony Sanchez who was on the quick road to the Majors until he took two fastballs to the face in three weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
Yeah I did not see an offensive downgrade. Though that is not sayng much given how bad that they were offensively last year. More a sidegrade, or overpay for a very modest upgrade was my complaint. Money that could ahve gone to signing Maholm and then spend the moeny elsewhere. The long and short of it is I do not see that they downgraded offensively. I also do not really see an upgrade though.
On the external stuff, absolutely. As I said I think the biggest key for this team next year is going to be what happens to Pedro Alvarez. If Alvarez does what he's capable of doing we essentially upgraded a black hole into something that can hit .270 with 25-30 HRs without having to do anything. That is the only way the offense counts as a real upgrade. Aside from that it's going to be a baby step forward (if we sign Pena) or, as you said, a slidegrade.
Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 11-21-2011 at 04:36 PM.
1k posts coming up.
