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which of our positions are solid?

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:02 PM
  #1
funky
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which of our positions are solid?

Just wondering which of our positions you believe are being filled by players that are:

1. Suited to play that position
2. You would be comfortable going into the playoffs with that player in the position
3. you would want that player back next year in that position
4. Salary for the player fits the position
5. something I may have overlooked that you can add.

1C = Kopitar - Yes
2C = Richards - Yes
3C = Stoll - NO - on paper yes, but expensive, and not a shutdown guy
4C = Lewis - NO - would love a big body Handzus type, allow 3C to be offensive

1RW = Williams - Yes
2RW = Brown - Yes
3RW = No - we currently have no player on roster that fills this spot
4RW = Westy/ Richie - Yes

1LW = Gagne - Yes
2LW = Penner - NO - should be, but not
3LW = No - we currently have no player on roster that fills this spot
4LW = Moraeu/ Cliffy - Yes

Defence as a whole from 1 to 8 is Solid -Yes
Goaltending - very solid -Yes

Head Coach - No - can not adapt within games, stratagies are easy to disect. Not playing to the players strengths

G.M - Yes - Has built a very solid core, stocked the cupboards and set the team up for the future. Saying this now he has to prove he can go out and get something the team needs when it counts


Therefor in my mind we need in this order

1. Coaching change
2. New 2LW - although a coaching change may be what Penner needs
3. third line wingers - I would leave Lokti as 3C, trade Stoll and Martinez for these

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11-21-2011, 06:07 PM
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damacles1156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
Just wondering which of our positions you believe are being filled by players that are:

1. Suited to play that position
2. You would be comfortable going into the playoffs with that player in the position
3. you would want that player back next year in that position
4. Salary for the player fits the position
5. something I may have overlooked that you can add.

1C = Kopitar - Yes
2C = Richards - Yes
3C = Stoll - NO - on paper yes, but expensive, and not a shutdown guy
4C = Lewis - NO - would love a big body Handzus type, allow 3C to be offensive

1RW = Williams - Yes
2RW = Brown - Yes
3RW = No - we currently have no player on roster that fills this spot
4RW = Westy/ Richie - Yes

1LW = Gagne - Yes
2LW = Penner - NO - should be, but not
3LW = No - we currently have no player on roster that fills this spot
4LW = Moraeu/ Cliffy - Yes

Defence as a whole from 1 to 8 is Solid -Yes
Goaltending - very solid -Yes

Head Coach - No - can not adapt within games, stratagies are easy to disect. Not playing to the players strengths

G.M - Yes - Has built a very solid core, stocked the cupboards and set the team up for the future. Saying this now he has to prove he can go out and get something the team needs when it counts


Therefor in my mind we need in this order

1. Coaching change
2. New 2LW - although a coaching change may be what Penner needs
3. third line wingers - I would leave Lokti as 3C, trade Stoll and Martinez for these
I agree with everything but Coaching and GM. Both NO to them.

How many Coaching changes does Dean get? Part of being a Good GM is hiring a good coach.


Think of it this way. If Terry Murray gets fired after this year, The Kings will have their Third Coach in Six years....... Think about that for a minute. When does the GM get held accountable?
It's Unfortunate that Terry, is exactly the Coach Dean Wants.


Last edited by damacles1156: 11-21-2011 at 06:14 PM.
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Old
11-21-2011, 06:26 PM
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Hey, great idea!

1C = Kopitar - Yes
2C = Richards - Yes
3C = Lewis - Borderline yes. If he's played with skill guys, he really picks up the offense. He's being mismanaged right now.
4C = Nope.

1RW = Williams - Yes
2RW = Brown - Yes
3RW = Richardson - borderline. Not ideally suited, but I'd be fine going into the playoffs with him here given his success last season.
4RW = Westgarth - Yes for enforcer nights, No for non-enforcer nights

1LW = Gagne - Yes
2LW = Loktionov - Yes. I thought he looked fine here last game.
3LW = Nope - Clifford could fit if he finds his touch, otherwise a very weak spot.
4LW = Moreau - Yes

The back end and net is great.

Coach - On the fence about this. TM has gotten teams deep in the playoffs before, but he hasn't shown he is making the adjustments so far. The game is much simpler in the playoffs, so there's a good chance his style would be effective. I am ambivalent towards him right now, but if this team isn't showing top 3-4 play come the halfway point, I would make the change.

DL - Had his share of failures and successes, but overall has really built quite a system of players. He's also shown he's prepared to go after the big fish to improve the team further. A keeper.

1. Energy and effort guy for 3LW. A Steve Ott type of guy.
2. Prototypical big 3rd/4th center with size. Zeus/Otto type, or someone in the mold of Gaustad.
3. A shiny new coach if team play warrants it.

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11-21-2011, 06:37 PM
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Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
I agree with everything but Coaching and GM. Both NO to them.

How many Coaching changes does Dean get? Part of being a Good GM is hiring a good coach.


Think of it this way. If Terry Murray gets fired after this year, The Kings will have their Third Coach in Six years....... Think about that for a minute. When does the GM get held accountable?
It's Unfortunate that Terry, is exactly the Coach Dean Wants.
Lou is regarded as one of the best GMs of his generation. How many coaches has Lou hired and fired?

The GM is responsible for building the roster. If he feels the current coach isn't getting the best out of his roster, then he can change coaches. I don't think that is a bad thing. I believe in the roster that Dean has built. I hope he removes Murray before it is too late.

No more moves until the system changes.

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11-21-2011, 06:45 PM
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damacles1156
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Lou is regarded as one of the best GMs of his generation. How many coaches has Lou hired and fired?

The GM is responsible for building the roster. If he feels the current coach isn't getting the best out of his roster, then he can change coaches. I don't think that is a bad thing. I believe in the roster that Dean has built. I hope he removes Murray before it is too late.

No more moves until the system changes.
That's a fair point and a good one. I just don't believe Dean Lombardi will hire a guy that wants to make any real change. The real change has to come from the top.

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11-21-2011, 06:50 PM
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Obviously totally set with Kopi and Richards.

Justin Williams and Simon Gagne are both not #1 wingers on a great team. You can be ok with one of them in a first line role, but not both. We need someone to play with Kopi, whether its a RW or LW, doesn't matter.

Brown is fine as a 2nd liner.

Dustin Penner, Jarret Stoll and Brad Richardson are all bad as 3rd line players.

Lewis is limited but ok as a 4th liner. Clifford may need some time in the AHL but should be good in the future as a 4th liner. Moreau is awful, I don't know why he was signed.

I like all the defenders, we are set there.

Set in goal.

Not a believer in the philosophy of Murray and Lombardi hockey.

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11-21-2011, 07:17 PM
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Muzzinga
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what more do you want from Lewis? He is a 4th line energy guy, who can pk so others dont, and is making like league minimum. Seems perfect to me

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11-21-2011, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
That's a fair point and a good one. I just don't believe Dean Lombardi will hire a guy that wants to make any real change. The real change has to come from the top.
I still stick by the idea that if the Kings have another first round exit this year that DL HAS TO at least consider the options available and think about a coaching change. Even if it only to someone that takes what is in place and working and builds on that. They don't need to make a total overhaul of everything but should at least be willing to look at a coach or coaching staff that would be willing to build on the solid defensive structure in place and try to implement a more wide open offense on top of that. If you find that guy or guys then Murray should be gone. I just don't see how the players here are the problem and not the coaching. All of Richie Stoll and Clifford have been productive and solid under this coach before and that to me says coaching is the issue and not the players.

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11-21-2011, 08:33 PM
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1C Kopitar = yes
2C Richards = yes
3C Stoll = no (I think he could be utilized better with a different coach, but I prefer more of a shutdown guy on 3C)
4C Lewis = yes

1LW Gagne =yes* (ideally I would like a "true" first line winger on either side of Kopitar, allowing to Gagne/Williams to slide back to Richards line, but not necessary)
2LW = hole (Penner is a bust, don't feel comfortable with anyone else in this position)
3LW Clifford/Moreau = generally no, but could manage, depends on linemates.
4LW Clifford/Moreau = yes

1RW Williams = yes* (see Gagne)
2RW Brown = yes (would help if LW is someone decent so he doesn't have too much responsibility on the line and can go back to playing "simple" straightforward hockey)
3RW Richardson = generally no, but could manage, depends on linemates
4RW Richardson = yes (don't really want to see too much Westgarth)

Defense: yes to all

Goaltending: yes to all

Coaching: No

GM: Yes

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Old
11-21-2011, 08:37 PM
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damacles1156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Obviously totally set with Kopi and Richards.

Justin Williams and Simon Gagne are both not #1 wingers on a great team. You can be ok with one of them in a first line role, but not both. We need someone to play with Kopi, whether its a RW or LW, doesn't matter.

Brown is fine as a 2nd liner.

Dustin Penner, Jarret Stoll and Brad Richardson are all bad as 3rd line players.

Lewis is limited but ok as a 4th liner. Clifford may need some time in the AHL but should be good in the future as a 4th liner. Moreau is awful, I don't know why he was signed.

I like all the defenders, we are set there.

Set in goal.

Not a believer in the philosophy of Murray and Lombardi hockey.
All these yes marks in the GM column. Herby, do you think these people will still be yes to GM ; when he announces John Stevens has replaced Terry Murray as head coach.

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11-21-2011, 08:46 PM
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Herby
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
All these yes marks in the GM column. Herby, do you think these people will still be yes to GM ; when he announces John Stevens has replaced Terry Murray as head coach.
I am totally with you, it's really funny how many people want Murray out and think he is the reason the Kings don't score goals.

This was obviously the hand picked guy. Like you said in a different post, there is no way Dean Lombardi is going to fire Terry Murray and and give the keys to his baby to an offensive minded coach. Dean Lombardi has shown us all what he believes in, he believes in the grind it out, lets win 2-1 hockey games. That is why Terry was brought in, he is the perfect guy to run this roster we have.

If you guys want to play a more exciting brand of hockey you need to realize what it's going to take to make it happen.

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11-21-2011, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
All these yes marks in the GM column. Herby, do you think these people will still be yes to GM ; when he announces John Stevens has replaced Terry Murray as head coach.
If Stevens opens up the Kings offense even a little bit and stresses the need to get better in that area then I'd be perfectly happy with the announcement.

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Old
11-21-2011, 09:01 PM
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Ugh

1c Yes Kopi is.
2c Yes Richards is.
3c Yes Loktionov is.
4c Yes Lewis is.

1lw no Gags is not
2lw yes Gags is.
3lw yes Clifford is but as he is in his 2nd yr he is going through a little struggle. Sometimes he is on the money, other times he is a bit lost. Of course, TM is as much to blame for killing ANY creativity or O drive that the kid might have but that is another point.
4lw yes by committee is. EM is acceptable and his cohorts are also.

1rw yes Williams is. Say what you want about him but he puts up a bit better than average points and the rest is as good as most RW's around the league.
2rw yes Brown is. DB isn't my favorite RW in the league today nor is he my favorite RW on the Kings in the past 3 decades but he is definitely one of the better 2nd line RW's in the game.
3rw no, Stoll is not. He should be. He has everything that he needs to do the job but so far this season, his contract season he is struggling where he should be thriving. Could this be another of TM's casualties? I don''t know. He certainly hasn't proven himself capable at 3c this year. Where does he belong? Which team will he end up on?
4rw yes Committee is.

D is ridiculously yes.

G is definitely yes.

Coaching is as I have felt since his hire no. TM hasn't been an outright fail but he has proven time and time again that when an opposing coach has a game plan that is clearly successful against his *raideresque* obvious trite and hackneyed game plan he has no ability to think or change on the fly. His only ever answer is "change my lines BEEEP" "Change my lines BEEEP".

We need a new coach. TM is clearly in over his head. Before the season started I said that even with TM at the helm we will still be a contender. I think we are looking alright as of now but have some serious concerns about our ability to make it past the first round with Granny at the helm.

He is a very knowledgeable person and would make an excellent coach in the AHL or Major Juniors but his time has passed as an NHL head coach imo.

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Old
11-21-2011, 11:16 PM
  #14
Telos
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Yes-Yes-Yes
No-Yes-Yes
Yes-No-Maybe (Lewis can fill this spot and belongs here)
Yes-Yes-Yes

Yes-Yes
Yes-Yes
Yes-Yes

Yes
Yes

Solid everywhere except a top tier left wing, and a leading bottom 6 center. The center could probably be developed internally, but the left wing will likely have to be acquired externally, though there is a lot of promise with Loktionov at left wing in my opinion, he has no chance at center, he doesn't belong on the third line in a grinding role, and I personally think he is better suited for the left wing.

I would like to see this more often:

Gagne-Kopitar-Williams
Loktionov-Richards-Brown
Clifford-Stoll-Lewis
Moreau-Fraser-Richardson/Hunter/Westgarth

Johnson-Doughty
Mitchell-Voynov
Scuderi-Greene

Quick
Bernier

The only position I think needs immediate attention, other than looking for a hard to obtain high caliber player for the top 6, is the third line center spot. I really am apprehensive about leaving Stoll there, I don't think he has shown what is needed to be a truly effective bottom 6'er, though his faceoff, shootout, and special team abilities are strong, but he lacks grit and the ability to create plays which stifles other wingers around him. I am fine with letting him play out the season, but if an upgrade becomes available I say jump on it, we need a better leader for the bottom 6.

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Last edited by Telos: 11-21-2011 at 11:31 PM.
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