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The Official Trade Carle and Meszaros Thread

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Old
11-22-2011, 10:44 AM
  #1
FreshPerspective
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The Official Trade Carle and Meszaros Thread

Ok we already know there is a movement akin to Occupy Wall street to get get rid of Carle and his pricey salary but it is becoming increasingly clear that Meszaros needs to go as well. His contract is also ridic considering the returns notwithstanding last year's effort which might turn out to be an anamoly.

These two cones cannot fill the void when we are missing Pronger or Timonen. I'm sick of their turnovers and seeing their numbers/backs to the play as a result of missed assignments. Coburn has his critics but he does what needs to be done for the most part. He had that one putrid season after taking that shot to his eye but otherwise I think he's been more than fine.

Anyway..the point here is that just like we revamped our offense this offseason by leveraging our two cornerstone players..we need to move these two overpaid clowns and revamp the D.

I'm pretty sure that Holmgren has them on notice. So far they continue to show they can't step it up when it is needed.

I agree with Meltzer's take on Mesz below..

Quote:
The Flyers' penalty killing let them down last night. With all due respect to the Hurricanes, there is no excuse for the PK to get carved up by a power play as poor as Carolina's. The Canes didn't do anything special last night. They just took what the Flyers gave them, which was outnumbered situations (mini 2-on-1s) down low and free reign to go to the net.

On the first goal, Andrej Meszaros made three gaffes within the span of 10 seconds. He failed on a pair of chances to clear the puck out of the zone. Then he over-committed to his man and took himself out of the play (a chronic problem for Meszaros so far this season), leaving Kimmo Timonen to defend a 2-on-1 near the net. Timonen gambled by sliding to the ice to block the pass; a do-or-die play. It didn't work, and Alexei Ponikarovsky had a slam dunk off the feed from Chad Larose

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Old
11-22-2011, 10:53 AM
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Carle I would be fine with trading. Mez was our best defender last year. I think 20 games is a little short to forget about that.

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Old
11-22-2011, 10:58 AM
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Maybe so but he isn't inspiring much confidence right now that he will be able to fill some of the void when Timonen and later Pronger retire. We took on that contract b/c we consider him to be a top 4 D man....maybe he'll round back into form but i'm really starting to wonder about his mental fortitude. We'll see..just frustrating. I still think unloading his salary and Carle's and some other roster moves will help us revamp the D much better.

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11-22-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Maybe so but he isn't inspiring much confidence right now that he will be able to fill some of the void when Timonen and later Pronger retire. We took on that contract b/c we consider him to be a top 4 D man....maybe he'll round back into form but i'm really starting to wonder about his mental fortitude. We'll see..just frustrating. I still think unloading his salary and Carle's and some other roster moves will help us revamp the D much better.
Come on, now there's a question he is not a top 4 defenseman?

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11-22-2011, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Come on, now there's a question he is not a top 4 defenseman?
Why are you feigning surprise? Do you not recall his Tampa exploits? There is more precedence that he is not then he is. He still has to prove himself to be a consistent performer on the top 4. He hasn't done that in his career. He was good last year for us until the playoffs and in his initial year or so with Ottawa. Other than that he's shown himself to be pretty avg. At 4M I expect him to hold his own and Timonen not having to compensate for his constant gaffes thus far this season

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11-22-2011, 11:25 AM
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Meszaros and Carle aren't expected to replace Pronger and Timonen when the time comes.

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11-22-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
Meszaros and Carle aren't expected to replace Pronger and Timonen when the time comes.
They are expected to hold their own which they are unable to do....again it's about leveraging the both of them for actual replacements for Pronger and Timonen. Then getting some players priced to play average like they are doing...

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11-22-2011, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Why are you feigning surprise? Do you not recall his Tampa exploits? There is more precedence that he is not then he is. He still has to prove himself to be a consistent performer on the top 4. He hasn't done that in his career. He was good last year for us until the playoffs and in his initial year or so with Ottawa. Other than that he's shown himself to be pretty avg. At 4M I expect him to hold his own and Timonen not having to compensate for his constant gaffes thus far this season
Really? I think you are confusing his last twenty games with his entire career. He played well in Tampa, certainly well enough to be a top 4 defenseman. He wasn't a top pairing D-man and may not have lived up to his contract, but he played well enough to be a top 4 defender. He was on an awful team, and in 08-09 he was injured about half the year. In Ottawa he played probably well enough to be a top two defender, but certainly a top 4. And here he has played well enough to be a top four defender.

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11-22-2011, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
He played well in Tampa, certainly well enough to be a top 4 defenseman. He wasn't a top pairing D-man and may not have lived up to his contract, but he played well enough to be a top 4 defender.
You just supported my argument..thanks! His contract merits more than playing "well-enough" which I interpret as average....

Again we can agree to disagree....he may be a top 4 defender technically but with that salary (no different than Carle) I would like to see him hold his own more and do a little more on the PP. We have Carle with the shot of a child back there and then Mesz with a shot about as accurate as a scud missile.

Anyway...while I agree it's a bit too soon I'm just of the opinion that it's best to move the both of them and push the reset button.

Let's see how Meszeros responds..he may be salvageable if he starts playing at least above average. Carle is just average regardless...

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11-22-2011, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Carle I would be fine with trading. Mez was our best defender last year. I think 20 games is a little short to forget about that.

No he wasn't and it wasn't even close. He wasn't even one of our top 4 dmen last year and not based upon where he played in the lineup just based upon his actualy PLAY. Yes I know he was "voted" the best dman for us last year but that was just a gift and moreso to the fact that he DID have a nice rebound year but he was CLEARLY certainly not better than Timonen or Pronger and for as good as Mesz was last year he still wasn't better than Coburn or Carle either and he's not better than any of those 4 this year.

Also, last year it was pretty easy for him to look pretty good when he was playing on the 3rd pairing going up against the other teams worst lines AND he has a solid vet like OD to help him in his assignments.

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11-22-2011, 12:06 PM
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show me realistic upgrade options and i'll listen.

last night proved we've got nothing all that promising waiting to break out of the A.

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11-22-2011, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
You just supported my argument..thanks! His contract merits more than playing "well-enough" which I interpret as average....

Again we can agree to disagree....he may be a top 4 defender technically but with that salary (no different than Carle) I would like to see him hold his own more and do a little more on the PP. We have Carle with the shot of a child back there and then Mesz with a shot about as accurate as a scud missile.

Anyway...while I agree it's a bit too soon I'm just of the opinion that it's best to move the both of them and push the reset button.

Let's see how Meszeros responds..he may be salvageable if he starts playing at least above average. Carle is just average regardless...
Is said he didn't live up to his contract in Tampa Bay, which he certainly didn't. But that doesn't mean he wasn't playing well enough to be a top four defender. Just out of curiosity, what does a defenseman have to do to be a top four defenseman?

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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
No he wasn't and it wasn't even close. He wasn't even one of our top 4 dmen last year and not based upon where he played in the lineup just based upon his actualy PLAY. Yes I know he was "voted" the best dman for us last year but that was just a gift and moreso to the fact that he DID have a nice rebound year but he was CLEARLY certainly not better than Timonen or Pronger and for as good as Mesz was last year he still wasn't better than Coburn or Carle either and he's not better than any of those 4 this year.

Also, last year it was pretty easy for him to look pretty good when he was playing on the 3rd pairing going up against the other teams worst lines AND he has a solid vet like OD to help him in his assignments.
And why wasn't he a top four defender? His stats and play on the ice certainly would say other wise. He played on the third pairing, but put him on any other team in the NHL (with a few exceptions) and where is he going to play? There are better D-men out there, for sure, but on this team and probably about 20-25 others, he's one of the best four defensemen on the team.

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Old
11-22-2011, 12:27 PM
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Trade Carle???.. i'd be happy if we just left him at the Airport in some foreign city...

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11-22-2011, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Is said he didn't live up to his contract in Tampa Bay, which he certainly didn't. But that doesn't mean he wasn't playing well enough to be a top four defender. Just out of curiosity, what does a defenseman have to do to be a top four defenseman?


He was a top four defender by default and by reason of his inflated contract which they had to justify. He didn't give them much reason to do so and hence the trade which Holmgren said "he jumped at."

I already explained what a top four D man has to show which right now he is not showing and we will have to see if he gets his head straight. Right now he's playing pretty damn clueless out there. Again, he has to play at least above average, not miss assignments, hold his freakin own by not forcing his partner to compensate for his lazy play and add something on the PP given his shot. He also needs to step it up when other key D men are out of the lineup..not play small and boneheaded like "Andrea Lilly"....

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11-22-2011, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by PhillyFlying View Post
show me realistic upgrade options and i'll listen.

last night proved we've got nothing all that promising waiting to break out of the A.
Realistic options are some of the big D free agents we will have to throw some serious money at even if they are up for auction. That requires shedding salary and it requires assessing who is getting paid excessive money to just play average. Right now Carle and Mesz fit that bill with Coburn being signed to an extension and management considering he's at least salvageable which I agree. Dude plays big minutes. Seems Carle and Mesz when they get extended minutes due the injury get exposed more often than not.

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11-22-2011, 12:49 PM
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Trade Carle. I've had difficulty paying attention to how bad Mez or anyone else has been lately because I'm too busy holding my breath every time he takes a shift and *****ing about how much he sucks after his shifts.

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11-22-2011, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
He was a top four defender by default and by reason of his inflated contract which they had to justify. He didn't give them much reason to do so and hence the trade which Holmgren said "he jumped at."

I already explained what a top four D man has to show which right now he is not showing and we will have to see if he gets his head straight. Right now he's playing pretty damn clueless out there. Again, he has to play at least above average, not miss assignments, hold his freakin own by not forcing his partner to compensate for his lazy play and add something on the PP given his shot. He also needs to step it up when other key D men are out of the lineup..not play small and boneheaded like "Andrea Lilly"....
I don't know, I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this one. Anyone else out there want to back me up, or is this board so hopelessly bipolar that Mez is now the new scapegoat?

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11-22-2011, 12:52 PM
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Meszaros is a poor 1 on 1 defender, which is why he's always played his best hockey with limited even strength duties. He'll never be a true #1 and was overrated by Flyers fans last season.

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11-22-2011, 12:52 PM
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Nah, I'm against trading Mez as well. He won't carry a team but he's a good depth guy, if a bit overpriced.

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11-22-2011, 12:53 PM
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with Pronger and Coburn out Mez needs to be better then he was last night. a lot better. When Mez struggles it puts more pressure on Timonen. Who is on pace to get burnt out by March.
If Pronger's viral infection is serious this team is in trouble. it hasnt shown any kind of confidence as a group when he is out. Combine that with a group of forwards who are below average defensively and its not a good combination.
if we cant stop Carolina's PP then what happens when we face a top 5 PP.


Last edited by GoneFullHextall: 11-22-2011 at 01:03 PM. Reason: just a dumb typo
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11-22-2011, 12:54 PM
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We are in need of a right handed shooting defenseman.

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11-22-2011, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
Trade Carle???.. i'd be happy if we just left him at the Airport in some foreign city...
Poor Ol' Stone Hands, yeah I never bought into the Matt Carle hype ever, but is there any upgradable realistic trades out there we can do? Plus for some reason I feel like the org. loves Carle too much to ship him out

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11-22-2011, 01:00 PM
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Trade Carle???.. i'd be happy if we just left him at the Airport in some foreign city...

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11-22-2011, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't know, I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this one. Anyone else out there want to back me up, or is this board so hopelessly bipolar that Mez is now the new scapegoat?
I think you are the one being unbalanced. This is not about creating a new scapegoat this is about calling a spade a spade. Again maybe he'll redeem himself but right now he's reverting to his old ways that got him traded 2x. He needs to show more given that salary. If he doesn't it makes little sense to pay him for avg to subpar performances considering we need to figure out how to replace two very important defensive but aging anchors in Timonen and Pronger. If you want to sign at least one big time D man then you have to shed salary like we did with the forwards this past offseason (or at least one to get a Bryzgalov). If Carle and Mesz continue to play average to below avg it makes no sense to have their sunk cost contracts. Carle seems to be a given to leave given the Coburn signing but Mesz I think is not that far behind. If we're going to keep two avg players then lets find 1 or two depending on if you sign a big time D man to an average contract. Again this is how you make business decisions but once again we get the whole emotional fanboy (hate, scapegoat) element brought in to cloud things....

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11-22-2011, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
I think you are the one being unbalanced. This is not about creating a new scapegoat this is about calling a spade a spade. Again maybe he'll redeem himself but right now he's reverting to his old ways that got him traded 2x. He needs to show more given that salary. If he doesn't it makes little sense to pay him for avg to subpar performances considering we need to figure out how to replace two very important defensive but aging anchors in Timonen and Pronger. If you want to sign at least one big time D man then you have to shed salary like we did with the forwards this past offseason (or at least one to get a Bryzgalov). If Carle and Mesz continue to play average to below avg it makes no sense to have their sunk cost contracts. Carle seems to be a given to leave given the Coburn signing but Mesz I think is not that far behind. If we're going to keep two avg players then lets find 1 or two depending on if you sign a big time D man to an average contract. Again this is how you make business decisions but once again we get the whole emotional fanboy (hate, scapegoat) element brought in to cloud things....
He may be a little overpaid, but that is different than not being a 3/4 defenseman. Put him on any other team and that's where he will play. Moreover, I don't really think he has ever not lived up to his contract, except maybe the years in TB on a terrible team. Trade Carle all you want though, but I'm hanging on Mez.

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