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Old
11-22-2011, 01:26 PM
  #351
PKarey Plekoretty
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Originally Posted by gg4167 View Post
Just wondering, as an outsider looking in (from Boston), what are the major issues Montreal fans have with Martin? What specifically about his system is holding the team back? I know you guys have probably rehashed this a thousand times, but I'm just curious as someone who doesn't watch the team play on a daily basis.
IMO he messes with the lines too much

He tries to impose a 3rd period game (when the Habs are winning) that the players clearly are against. See our most recent loss to BUF at hme, and the players reactions in the dressing room after the game as evidence of that

He sees higher value in the wrong players (and rewards them with too much ice time) and vice versa with the good players getting less time on PPs etc (See Eller and Gomez)

And I also think he tries to impose his style on certain plaers that it just doesn't work with. This one I struggle with a little, because I realize the team as a unit needs to play together, however, I feel like he has put too much of a clip on PK and is trying to mold him into something he isn't, and I feel like we are seeing the result of that this year

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11-22-2011, 01:27 PM
  #352
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Most fans have no clue about the work of a coach. Therefore, they whine about his ''defensive system'' and his line combos. Mostly line combos. The hatred is fired in random directions, and it only follows a loss.

The problem is that around here, people use terms such as ''thug'' and ''stud'' to describe marginal players like Eller, Diaz, Subban and Cole. Yes, I said Subban. They believe the reason why Eller hasn't 24 points yet is Martin's ''defensive system''. Yet when you watch a game, Martin's system is generally fine, despite having an extremely green D-core. Shots against are lower now, and it will only improve with the addition of our PMD...if they ever comeback. The problem doesn't come from the system.

The problems come from the simple lack of talent of the Habs players. You can't blame the coach for knee-high passes (how many last night?). You can't blame the coach for shots in the goalies logo (how many last night?). You can't blame the coach for a terrified offensive group that is more than content to dump-and-NOT-chase (how many last night?). Speed is pointless when you are scared to get touched. How many times have we seen a Habs player burn an opponent? Cole made it once. He then headed to the corner and threw an interception. Another turnover in the bank. Essentially, the lack of talent translates into pointless turnovers that really kill scoring chances. People here believe that Desharnais will become a top 50 player, but they don't see how he has more turnovers and lost battles than Gomez has dollars. At least he figured out how to win a few faceoffs. To the top 50!

The lack of talent just adds to the hilarity of the line combo whining. Why put X and Y with Z? Martin should have used W instead! But who cares, given that X, Y, Z and W are all offensively inapt. Actually, one of them might reach 60 points this year. Hooray!

The coach isn't the problem. Trading Latendresse for Pouliot, Ribeiro for Niniimmaa, McDonaugh and Higgins for Gomez, yeah, that is the problem. Talent. We have none, and we do, we make sure we trade it for garbage. A talentless team needs size. We have none of that either. Bowman couldn't do much with this group.

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Old
11-22-2011, 01:33 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Why is it that we always manage to make below average goalies look spectacular? At what point is it us and not the goaltending?
You nailed it. After 2 and a quarter seasons of low-scoring, it's ridiculous to pretend we're a high-scoring team with bad luck. 185 games is not a streak or a period, it's who we are.

What's the reason for our annual goal difficulties? It's never one thing. Our face-off % has improved and our shot total is much better - both important factors that were problems last year and have seemingly been fixed. Yet goals are still erratic. Shots are there, but not every shot is created equal, so maybe our shooters simply aren't as accurate or quick. One guy here (forgot who) pointed out the possible difference being an extra millisecond of hesitation between having the puck and firing it. Note the quick release of the game's top snipers and see the difference in reaction time between them and us. That of course also depends on who's feeding you the puck, which brings us back to our defense inexperience.

Bottom line is to maximize what we do have, which is a solid crop of good to very-good talent. No great individual talent, but a great team system that works very well when all the wheels are rolling together. Up until now, we've been driving on two spare tires in the back. Maybe Markov, Campoli and Spacek's (yes, dammit -- Spacek!) return will provide the last missing piece.

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11-22-2011, 01:37 PM
  #354
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Meh enough bashing the system, at some point the players have to put the damn puck in the net.

How many time has Cammalleri and others been open in the slot and either fanned on it or shot right at the goalie? He is payed $6M to put it in the net and he is not doing it. The team is getting chances but the stars are not getting the job done.

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11-22-2011, 01:38 PM
  #355
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Meh enough bashing the system, at some point the players have to put the damn puck in the net.

How many time has Cammalleri and others been open in the slot and either fanned on it or shot right at the goalie? He is payed $6M to put it in the net and he is not doing it. The team is getting chances but the stars are not getting the job done.
Cammy is not scoring the way he is paid to.

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Old
11-22-2011, 01:42 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Most fans have no clue about the work of a coach. Therefore, they whine about his ''defensive system'' and his line combos. Mostly line combos. The hatred is fired in random directions, and it only follows a loss.

The problem is that around here, people use terms such as ''thug'' and ''stud'' to describe marginal players like Eller, Diaz, Subban and Cole. Yes, I said Subban. They believe the reason why Eller hasn't 24 points yet is Martin's ''defensive system''. Yet when you watch a game, Martin's system is generally fine, despite having an extremely green D-core. Shots against are lower now, and it will only improve with the addition of our PMD...if they ever comeback. The problem doesn't come from the system.

The problems come from the simple lack of talent of the Habs players. You can't blame the coach for knee-high passes (how many last night?). You can't blame the coach for shots in the goalies logo (how many last night?). You can't blame the coach for a terrified offensive group that is more than content to dump-and-NOT-chase (how many last night?). Speed is pointless when you are scared to get touched. How many times have we seen a Habs player burn an opponent? Cole made it once. He then headed to the corner and threw an interception. Another turnover in the bank. Essentially, the lack of talent translates into pointless turnovers that really kill scoring chances. People here believe that Desharnais will become a top 50 player, but they don't see how he has more turnovers and lost battles than Gomez has dollars. At least he figured out how to win a few faceoffs. To the top 50!

The lack of talent just adds to the hilarity of the line combo whining. Why put X and Y with Z? Martin should have used W instead! But who cares, given that X, Y, Z and W are all offensively inapt. Actually, one of them might reach 60 points this year. Hooray!

The coach isn't the problem. Trading Latendresse for Pouliot, Ribeiro for Niniimmaa, McDonaugh and Higgins for Gomez, yeah, that is the problem. Talent. We have none, and we do, we make sure we trade it for garbage. A talentless team needs size. We have none of that either. Bowman couldn't do much with this group.
You've exchanged a hatred of Martin for your own hatred of the roster. Neither is correct. Lacking a superstar doesn't mean we lack talent. It just means our team has to play within a tighter system to succeed.

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Old
11-22-2011, 01:44 PM
  #357
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Again... good post

I just wanted to pipe in and say for the majority of 15 years, the Canadiens had problems scoring.

I remember in 1996, we had a bunch of passers and no shooters... I dont think we ever really recovered since.

We go nuts over a 30 goal guy. Imagine if we could actually have someone pop 40 goals for us again

This is what the whole issue is though. We add a bunch of talent, and they all consistently dwindle their PPG stats (as much as 0.3 PG!)

Our Defence is good, our goaltending is awesome. The forwards leave much more to be desired however. It's their responsibility to put the puck in the net.

Our lack of offensive drive, is the reason we couldnt escape our fate against Boston OR Philly in the playoffs the past 2 yeaars.
It's really sad to say that a huge portion of our fans don't know what it's like to see a top scorer wearing a Montreal Canadiens jersey. A lot of folks don't know (or don't remember) what it's like to have a true superstar scorer. Guys like Plekanec (a good but not great player) get hyped up because he's the best we've got.

Right now we're hoping that Max becomes the next big guy for us and I hope it comes true. But how much better would he be and how much better would it be for his development if we actually had a true number one center for him? Imagine if the guy actually had a superstar to play with. It would make a huge difference for us. But we don't have this and it makes it harder for our younger players to develop.

It's great that we have top flight goaltending and our defense has been pretty decent most of the time, but we've neglected scoring and size up front. And it's really too bad because top forwards make a huge difference.

Not having one has killed us for years.

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Old
11-22-2011, 01:47 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Most fans have no clue about the work of a coach. Therefore, they whine about his ''defensive system'' and his line combos. Mostly line combos. The hatred is fired in random directions, and it only follows a loss.

The problem is that around here, people use terms such as ''thug'' and ''stud'' to describe marginal players like Eller, Diaz, Subban and Cole. Yes, I said Subban. They believe the reason why Eller hasn't 24 points yet is Martin's ''defensive system''. Yet when you watch a game, Martin's system is generally fine, despite having an extremely green D-core. Shots against are lower now, and it will only improve with the addition of our PMD...if they ever comeback. The problem doesn't come from the system.

The problems come from the simple lack of talent of the Habs players. You can't blame the coach for knee-high passes (how many last night?). You can't blame the coach for shots in the goalies logo (how many last night?). You can't blame the coach for a terrified offensive group that is more than content to dump-and-NOT-chase (how many last night?). Speed is pointless when you are scared to get touched. How many times have we seen a Habs player burn an opponent? Cole made it once. He then headed to the corner and threw an interception. Another turnover in the bank. Essentially, the lack of talent translates into pointless turnovers that really kill scoring chances. People here believe that Desharnais will become a top 50 player, but they don't see how he has more turnovers and lost battles than Gomez has dollars. At least he figured out how to win a few faceoffs. To the top 50!

The lack of talent just adds to the hilarity of the line combo whining. Why put X and Y with Z? Martin should have used W instead! But who cares, given that X, Y, Z and W are all offensively inapt. Actually, one of them might reach 60 points this year. Hooray!

The coach isn't the problem. Trading Latendresse for Pouliot, Ribeiro for Niniimmaa, McDonaugh and Higgins for Gomez, yeah, that is the problem. Talent. We have none, and we do, we make sure we trade it for garbage. A talentless team needs size. We have none of that either. Bowman couldn't do much with this group.
I'd sure like to have your wisdom... unlike most fans who just have no clue. I stopped reading after that so maybe your post is brilliant unlike all those clueless other posts.

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Old
11-22-2011, 01:51 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Dude... what are you talking about?

All we're talking about is the Habs offense. This has nothing to do with tanking or anything else.

As for "blaming" them for not scoring. Well, who are we supposed to look at when the club is consistently in the bottom 3rd of the league for scoring?
We're supposed to look at the fact that we have 5 dmen who have less than 100 games in the NHL. Its not so black and white to say that it's only our offense. Sure our D has played beyond expectations, but I don't see many crisp passes from the D to our forwards. It's not our offense we are getting a ton of shots and lots of bad luck to be honest.

Before last night we scored 12 goals in 3 games. We are just getting out of our funk yet people are still running around like their hair is on fire saying "out offense is terrible" bla bla. You do realize that Last years Vezina winner shut us out last night right?

The ONLY thing I see wrong with the team is our passing. If we can just be a little more crisper on our passes we are going to score more and more. Otherwise we're getting lots of chances and its only a matter of time till we start potting more in the net. When we have our D back and healthy look out. Sorry for being optimistic.

Why am I reading that in the past 15 years we cant score?..We have a different team than 15 years ago!..who cares what we did 15 years ago lol. Completely different situation and completely irrelevant. Everyone here just wants to complain and not take into consideration that we have one of the youngest defense in the league right now if not the youngest. Nobody wants to take into account that we HAVE been snakebitten by hot goalies and bad luck.

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Old
11-22-2011, 01:52 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Disgraceful post.

Blame Subban and give Martin a pass.

Subban's game has changed and it is because Martin has definitely reined him in and his style of play.

Subban is a round peg and Martin is trying to pound him into his square version of hockey. Obviously we are seeing the results of that.

Typical Martin trying to force his style of hockey on a team that suffers for it. And typical of the Martin apologists to blame the players in Martin's dumb ass and wrong system instead of the man responsible for it.
Your post makes no sense. How do you explain that Subban's play improved after JM was hard on him the first half of the year?

Not sure planet you're living on, but there are not too many coaches who let their defensemen trying and beat everybody 1 on 1 with no regard for defense. The adjustments Subban is making and has made are essential for him to become the all-star or star he can be.

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11-22-2011, 01:58 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Most fans have no clue about the work of a coach. Therefore, they whine about his ''defensive system'' and his line combos. Mostly line combos. The hatred is fired in random directions, and it only follows a loss.

The problem is that around here, people use terms such as ''thug'' and ''stud'' to describe marginal players like Eller, Diaz, Subban and Cole. Yes, I said Subban. They believe the reason why Eller hasn't 24 points yet is Martin's ''defensive system''. Yet when you watch a game, Martin's system is generally fine, despite having an extremely green D-core. Shots against are lower now, and it will only improve with the addition of our PMD...if they ever comeback. The problem doesn't come from the system.

The problems come from the simple lack of talent of the Habs players. You can't blame the coach for knee-high passes (how many last night?). You can't blame the coach for shots in the goalies logo (how many last night?). You can't blame the coach for a terrified offensive group that is more than content to dump-and-NOT-chase (how many last night?). Speed is pointless when you are scared to get touched. How many times have we seen a Habs player burn an opponent? Cole made it once. He then headed to the corner and threw an interception. Another turnover in the bank. Essentially, the lack of talent translates into pointless turnovers that really kill scoring chances. People here believe that Desharnais will become a top 50 player, but they don't see how he has more turnovers and lost battles than Gomez has dollars. At least he figured out how to win a few faceoffs. To the top 50!

The lack of talent just adds to the hilarity of the line combo whining. Why put X and Y with Z? Martin should have used W instead! But who cares, given that X, Y, Z and W are all offensively inapt. Actually, one of them might reach 60 points this year. Hooray!

The coach isn't the problem. Trading Latendresse for Pouliot, Ribeiro for Niniimmaa, McDonaugh and Higgins for Gomez, yeah, that is the problem. Talent. We have none, and we do, we make sure we trade it for garbage. A talentless team needs size. We have none of that either. Bowman couldn't do much with this group.
Excellent post!!!! Oh and by the way, expect it to be bashed and disregarded by most here or ignored, but take heart in the fact that as you read you will read almost the exact post a little further down the line, by someone that took the time to copy what you said.

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Old
11-22-2011, 01:58 PM
  #362
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What's costing this team points is the powerplay. 5 on 5 this season they have been quite good actually but the PP has been terrible. All the PP has to do is just improve a little and this team would have at least 4 or 5 more points right now.

Hopefully the General can fix it.

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Old
11-22-2011, 02:03 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It's really sad to say that a huge portion of our fans don't know what it's like to see a top scorer wearing a Montreal Canadiens jersey. A lot of folks don't know (or don't remember) what it's like to have a true superstar scorer. Guys like Plekanec (a good but not great player) get hyped up because he's the best we've got.

Right now we're hoping that Max becomes the next big guy for us and I hope it comes true. But how much better would he be and how much better would it be for his development if we actually had a true number one center for him? Imagine if the guy actually had a superstar to play with. It would make a huge difference for us. But we don't have this and it makes it harder for our younger players to develop.

It's great that we have top flight goaltending and our defense has been pretty decent most of the time, but we've neglected scoring and size up front. And it's really too bad because top forwards make a huge difference.

Not having one has killed us for years.

Boston
Colorado
Dallas
Florida
Minnesota
Nashville
NYI
Phoenix
St. Louis
Winnipeg
Calgary
Carolina
Edmonton
Ottawa
Philadelphia
Toronto
Buffalo
New Jersey

All of these team don't have a superstar caliber player. Thats more than half the league. When you say superstar I think of Crosby Malkin Stamkos Ovechkin Datsyuk and the Sedins. If you mean guys like Bobby Ryan then I see your point. But if you want any of the guys I just mentioned then good luck with that. It would be a joke to just expect Montreal to trade away half of their team for a guy like Stamkos. We need to find a diamond in the rough in the draft to get an elite superstar and the odds are less than 1% after the first round. Be realistic here. We all want a superstar, but if we had to trade subban pleks and cammy for one superstar I would say forget it and want out depth instead.

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Old
11-22-2011, 02:04 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
We're supposed to look at the fact that we have 5 dmen who have less than 100 games in the NHL. Its not so black and white to say that it's only our offense. Sure our D has played beyond expectations, but I don't see many crisp passes from the D to our forwards. It's not our offense we are getting a ton of shots and lots of bad luck to be honest.
How long do we have to go being in the bottom 3rd of the league in scoring before it's us and not 'bad luck?'

Don't you think this is a legitimate question?
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Before last night we scored 12 goals in 3 games. We are just getting out of our funk yet people are still running around like their hair is on fire saying "out offense is terrible" bla bla. You do realize that Last years Vezina winner shut us out last night right?
And despite the 12 goals in three games we were still only 19th in goals per game. And after last night's we're back to 22nd. What does that tell you?
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
The ONLY thing I see wrong with the team is our passing. If we can just be a little more crisper on our passes we are going to score more and more. Otherwise we're getting lots of chances and its only a matter of time till we start potting more in the net. When we have our D back and healthy look out. Sorry for being optimistic.

Why am I reading that in the past 15 years we cant score?..We have a different team than 15 years ago!..who cares what we did 15 years ago lol. Completely different situation and completely irrelevant. Everyone here just wants to complain and not take into consideration that we have one of the youngest defense in the league right now if not the youngest. Nobody wants to take into account that we HAVE been snakebitten by hot goalies and bad luck.
You're reading that we haven't scored in fifteen years because it's mostly been true. I didn't write it but I agree with it because that's actually been the case.

Even if we just look at this nucleus from three years ago, the bottom line is that we haven't put the puck in the net. This group has never been above the bottom third in scoring.

Is it because we have four rookies on the blueline? Sure, I have no doubt that this isn't helping. Is it because we don't have a superstar forward? Yes, I think that's a factor too. Is it because our coach doesn't play Subban for top minutes on the PP? Debatable, but certainly that could be a reason...

The bottom line though is that we haven't generated much offense over the past few seasons. It used to be our PP that was great but our 5 on 5 sucked. Now it's reversed... At the end of the day though we haven't been able to score. And too often this season (as with most) we've made backup and below average goalies look great.

Different people will have different theories as to why but the bottom line is that we have not produced. Mathman feels that we will improve over time because the odds say they will... okay fair enough. I think that if we improve it will be because Markov is back and healthy. If he doesn't come back and stay here though, I don't see the results changing all that much.

My belief (and it's just my belief) is that we need more talent and size in our top six. I've believed this for a long time. I think we're too cute with our passes and don't have enough people going hard to the net nor do we have the size to be effective in front of it. I think that's a big (though not the only) reason why we don't actually finish the chances we do.

Bottom line is that we haven't scored. Now it's just a debate about WHY we haven't scored.

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11-22-2011, 02:06 PM
  #365
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Cammy is not scoring the way he is paid to.
I dont care if he scores 2 goals for the rest of the yr as long as he keeps going insanely ballistic on the playoffs.

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11-22-2011, 02:12 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
How long do we have to go being in the bottom 3rd of the league in scoring before it's us and not 'bad luck?'

Don't you think this is a legitimate question?

And despite the 12 goals in three games we were still only 19th in goals per game. And after last night's we're back to 22nd. What does that tell you?

You're reading that we haven't scored in fifteen years because it's mostly been true. I didn't write it but I agree with it because that's actually been the case.

Even if we just look at this nucleus from three years ago, the bottom line is that we haven't put the puck in the net. This group has never been above the bottom third in scoring.

Is it because we have four rookies on the blueline? Sure, I have no doubt that this isn't helping. Is it because we don't have a superstar forward? Yes, I think that's a factor too. Is it because our coach doesn't play Subban for top minutes on the PP? Debatable, but certainly that could be a reason...

The bottom line though is that we haven't generated much offense over the past few seasons. It used to be our PP that was great but our 5 on 5 sucked. Now it's reversed... At the end of the day though we haven't been able to score. And too often this season (as with most) we've made backup and below average goalies look great.

Different people will have different theories as to why but the bottom line is that we have not produced. Mathman feels that we will improve over time because the odds say they will... okay fair enough. I think that if we improve it will be because Markov is back and healthy. If he doesn't come back and stay here though, I don't see the results changing all that much.

My belief (and it's just my belief) is that we need more talent and size in our top six. I've believed this for a long time. I think we're too cute with our passes and don't have enough people going hard to the net nor do we have the size to be effective in front of it. I think that's a big (though not the only) reason why we don't actually finish the chances we do.

Bottom line is that we haven't scored. Now it's just a debate about WHY we haven't scored.
Great points there but we dont need a superstar. It would be nice but we have plenty of talent on this team. more than most teams I think. We just need some tinkering I think and we should be ok. Before we were 19th and 22nd in the league in goals per game we were 29th..what does that tell you?

Anyway we should just agree to disagree, you make some really good points and nobody knows the real answers here. Lets just see what happens.

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11-22-2011, 02:14 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
I dont care if he scores 2 goals for the rest of the yr as long as he keeps going insanely ballistic on the playoffs.
We better make the playoffs.

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11-22-2011, 02:17 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It's really sad to say that a huge portion of our fans don't know what it's like to see a top scorer wearing a Montreal Canadiens jersey. A lot of folks don't know (or don't remember) what it's like to have a true superstar scorer. Guys like Plekanec (a good but not great player) get hyped up because he's the best we've got.

Right now we're hoping that Max becomes the next big guy for us and I hope it comes true. But how much better would he be and how much better would it be for his development if we actually had a true number one center for him? Imagine if the guy actually had a superstar to play with. It would make a huge difference for us. But we don't have this and it makes it harder for our younger players to develop.

It's great that we have top flight goaltending and our defense has been pretty decent most of the time, but we've neglected scoring and size up front. And it's really too bad because top forwards make a huge difference.

Not having one has killed us for years.
Absolutely

I know 1/2 the game to keep the puck OUT of the net... But we never did focus on the other 1/2...

It goes all the way through the system. from drafting right to the head office. We want the 'safe, responsible' guy.

It's a double edged sword however. Lots of the scoring guys have had glaring weaknesses to their game prior to being drafted.

Marian Hossa is a great example. We took Jason Ward (albeit he had poor skating ability). But in juniors, Hossa NEVER did too much backchecking and was a scoring dynamo. We tend to stay clear of these kind of players.

Here's the second 1/2 of the sword though... Hossa developed his defence in the higher system, and retained his scoring prowess. Jason Ward... well, he became a dud.

The habs, under TT's system consistently look for 2 way players, with good skating ability. It seems that the DND list is comprised of any prospects who have some parts of their mechanics to work on. (Big, hard shot, physical, not a good skater (scratch)). Or how about skiping on Kopitar because he wasnt from a recognized hockey nation (granted it worked out for us, we got Price ) But these are the asinine reasons why the Canadiens DONT draft high skill in the first round. We tend to go for the all around all situations guy (Chris Higgins, Kyle Chipchura) and go for the dynamos in the later rounds (probably why we have so much success down there).

As I said in th TT post. it's not as if he did a BAD job... But it's not like he tried to fix the situation by taking any risk. That's honestly why I feel it's time for fresh blood. We need a new strategy. Gauthier IMO has done a great job trying to implement something at least SLIGHTLY different. That's also why I took him off of My firing block.

As for the Martin supporters/bashers. He hasn't taken this team to another level. That's my beef with him. We are no better off than having Carbonneau, or Therrien.
The closest we had to a coach doing something great was Julien. Who was fired 1/2 a season in to a struggling year. And now look, he's won a cup with our most hated adversary.

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11-22-2011, 02:19 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
We're supposed to look at the fact that we have 5 dmen who have less than 100 games in the NHL. Its not so black and white to say that it's only our offense. Sure our D has played beyond expectations, but I don't see many crisp passes from the D to our forwards. It's not our offense we are getting a ton of shots and lots of bad luck to be honest.

Before last night we scored 12 goals in 3 games. We are just getting out of our funk yet people are still running around like their hair is on fire saying "out offense is terrible" bla bla. You do realize that Last years Vezina winner shut us out last night right?

The ONLY thing I see wrong with the team is our passing. If we can just be a little more crisper on our passes we are going to score more and more. Otherwise we're getting lots of chances and its only a matter of time till we start potting more in the net. When we have our D back and healthy look out. Sorry for being optimistic.

Why am I reading that in the past 15 years we cant score?..We have a different team than 15 years ago!..who cares what we did 15 years ago lol. Completely different situation and completely irrelevant. Everyone here just wants to complain and not take into consideration that we have one of the youngest defense in the league right now if not the youngest. Nobody wants to take into account that we HAVE been snakebitten by hot goalies and bad luck.
You're reading 15 years because it's the same problem. An anemic, offensively challenged team that looks much better on paper than what their goal results tend to wind up at.

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11-22-2011, 02:21 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Boston
Colorado
Dallas
Florida
Minnesota
Nashville
NYI
Phoenix
St. Louis
Winnipeg
Calgary
Carolina
Edmonton
Ottawa
Philadelphia
Toronto
Buffalo
New Jersey
Most of these clubs have had at least one superstar forward on them in the past 15 years (Sakic, Iginla, Heatley, Lindros, Forsberg etc...) And many of those same clubs have emerging young superstars right now (Tavares, Seguin, Hall, RNH, Giroux etc...)

Moreover, many of the clubs on this list (if you're just looking at today) are among the worst teams in the league. Why do you want to compare us to them. How does this do anything but lump us in with them?

How does this in any way address what I've said about us not having had a superstar forward in forever? It doesn't.

But you're doing what we always do. We don't have those kinds of players so we work really hard at trying to diminish their importance and then talk about how you don't NEED them to win.

Great forwards ARE important. Just like great defense and goaltending is important. The more you have the better off you are.
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Great points there but we dont need a superstar. It would be nice but we have plenty of talent on this team. more than most teams I think. We just need some tinkering I think and we should be ok. Before we were 19th and 22nd in the league in goals per game we were 29th..what does that tell you?

Anyway we should just agree to disagree, you make some really good points and nobody knows the real answers here. Lets just see what happens.
We have a superstar in Price. So that's a good thing.

As for not NEEDING a superstar forward.. okay. A cup can be won without one but the vast majority of clubs that win DO have a (usually multiple) superstar forward (or at least a guy who's having a career year) on the roster.


Montreal (Shutt, Lafleur etc)
Islanders (Bossy, Trotts etc)
Oilers (Gretz etc)
Pens (Lemieux, Jagr etc)
Rangers (Messier)
Flames (3 HOF + Roberts, Fleury etc)
Stars (Modano, Hull etc)
Wings (Yzerman, Fedorov etc)
Avs (Forsberg, Sakic etc)
Lightning (St. Louis etc)
Canes (Staal)
Pens (Crosby etc)
Wings (Datsyuk, Zetterbeg)

That leaves the Devils (who had good forwards) Roy's Habs and the B's (who probably had the weakest group to ever win).

Most clubs had tons of offensive firepower. And we seem to ignore this.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 11-22-2011 at 02:33 PM.
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11-22-2011, 02:23 PM
  #371
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For sure December 15th 2008 was the greatest day of my life (and February 20th of this year- my daughter)

My boys though... LOVE hockey (just like me lol)

Lex is the dark haired one... He's growing up as a dead ringer for me lol (except he has darker hair)

Me and the Mrs. both figure he's going to grow to be similar to me.
But he already has a head start... he has had a stick in hand, shooting pucks at just under a year old, and hasnt stopped. He's full of non-stop energy...
He's hooked lol He wont go to bed if there's a game on the tv... and is learning how to skate.

Van, the oldest, is going to be MUCH, MUCH bigger than me. He's the protective one, and hasnt quite grown in to his body yet... We figure he's more like my wife's brother... around 6-6. Just because he had similar issues when he was young, before he grew in to his build.

So I figure I made the Habs future top goalscorer, and top line shut down d-men

They both want to be hockey players (I know it's early, but a dad can dream right lol) So I am making sure they get every effort to play


Hey thanks for sharing that friend. But be careful of what you wish for!! I have 2 sons, Joshua is 23 and Lucas is 20. Joshua to this day has been a Bruin fan like his dad. Lucas on the other hand went for Montreal. I think he did it for fun, just to go against his older brother and his dad. Then again, growing up, my older brother was a Hab fan so I went just the opposite and became a long time Bruin fan!! I was probably just to piss him off, lol...So, be careful your boys dont go opposite of each other.

And congrats on your little girl. Seems you have an awesome young family!! All the very best my friend and hopefully we keep in touch!!

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11-22-2011, 02:34 PM
  #372
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Hey thanks for sharing that friend. But be careful of what you wish for!! I have 2 sons, Joshua is 23 and Lucas is 20. Joshua to this day has been a Bruin fan like his dad. Lucas on the other hand went for Montreal. I think he did it for fun, just to go against his older brother and his dad. Then again, growing up, my older brother was a Hab fan so I went just the opposite and became a long time Bruin fan!! I was probably just to piss him off, lol...So, be careful your boys dont go opposite of each other.

And congrats on your little girl. Seems you have an awesome young family!! All the very best my friend and hopefully we keep in touch!!
Hey no problem I'm a proud dad lol As I am sure you are as well

LOL at the house divide... My house growing up, the boys (me and my father) are die hard hab fans, and the girls (my mom and sisters) love the Leafs (it made for intersting times ) Furthermore, my cousins out East (Im a bluenoser lol) are mostly Bruin fans... so it's a good get together during hockey season lol

From what my cousins tell me, they supported the B's because they are the closest team to Cape Breton... Apparently, Brad Marchand (my cousin) is the same way (hates the Habs)... I am glad he got to live out the dream though At least one of us did right?

Dont get me wrong... there is SOME Montreal support out there... just not nearly as much as I thought... But then again, I should have realized something when they all wear Red Sox caps growing up lol Definately keep in touch, god knows there is still a tonne of hockey to be played yet

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11-22-2011, 02:40 PM
  #373
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For sure December 15th 2008 was the greatest day of my life (and February 20th of this year- my daughter)
Congratulations, I have two around the same age as yours.

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11-22-2011, 02:43 PM
  #374
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Congratulations, I have two around the same age as yours.
It's really a fantastic priviledge to raise les boys (lol)

My guys are fraternal twins But I never knew I would be so in to being a dad... until I was one lol

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11-22-2011, 02:43 PM
  #375
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Most of these clubs have had at least one superstar forward on them in the past 15 years (Sakic, Iginla, Heatley, Lindros, Forsberg etc...) And many of those same clubs have emerging young superstars right now (Tavares, Seguin, Hall, RNH, Giroux etc...)

Moreover, many of the clubs on this list (if you're just looking at today) are among the worst teams in the league. Why do you want to compare us to them. How does this do anything but lump us in with them?

How does this in any way address what I've said about us not having had a superstar forward in forever? It doesn't.

But you're doing what we always do. We don't have those kinds of players so we work really hard at trying to diminish their importance and then talk about how you don't NEED them to win.

Great forwards ARE important. Just like great defense and goaltending is important. The more you have the better off you are.

We have a superstar in Price. So that's a good thing.

As for not NEEDING a superstar forward.. okay. A cup can be won without one but the vast majority of clubs that win DO have a (usually multiple) superstar forward (or at least a guy who's having a career year) on the roster.


Montreal (Shutt, Lafleur etc)
Islanders (Bossy, Trotts etc)
Oilers (Gretz etc)
Pens (Lemieux, Jagr etc)
Rangers (Messier)
Flames (3 HOF + Roberts, Fleury etc)
Stars (Modano, Hull etc)
Wings (Yzerman, Fedorov etc)
Avs (Forsberg, Sakic etc)
Lightning (St. Louis etc)
Canes (Staal)
Pens (Crosby etc)
Wings (Datsyuk, Zetterbeg)

That leaves the Devils (who had good forwards) Roy's Habs and the B's (who probably had the weakest group to ever win).

Most clubs had tons of offensive firepower. And we seem to ignore this.
I'm not comparing these teams to the habs, I am simply saying all of these teams would love a superstar. It shows how hard its going to be to get one, so keep dreaming. We need to work with the good team we have and stop complaining about not having a superstar.

No we don't need a superstar forward to win because we have a superstar goalie. Goalies and D win championships. Look at Boston New Jersey ect...I would rather have a star goalie than an ovechkin. What has Washington ever done?

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