HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

CBJ and LAK (b l o c k b u s t e r)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-22-2011, 02:31 PM
  #26
The Black1963
Grit & Character
 
The Black1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County CA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
I don't see the kings as high calibre and I don't see doughty as a superstar.. he is a star who has potential to be a superstar, though.

I dont think that any of this is relevant in a hypotheical forum whose purpose is to remedy boredom by throwing out offers like the one above that would never happen for many reasons. Nash wouldn't be moved by this organization unless he asked so in reality and not candyland, it is a non-starter at nash. fortunately for me.. and by extension this proposal.. we are in hf land.
Just out of curiosity, which defensemen would you consider a superstar?

The Black1963 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 02:35 PM
  #27
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
The problem is that the kings have 2 or 3 defenceman ahead of savard, Hicky, Voynov, Martinez and one can argue Muzzin. LA has a log jam of defence, adding savard doens't do anything that their other defence can't.
can be substituted for another piece in an area of need for LA; I added him because a d would need moved up to take doughty's spot and this throws another great prospect back into the pool + didn't want to send them extra salary.

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 02:39 PM
  #28
Kaoz
Ima Krejciist.
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
Just last year, the Blues 1st round pick in the Stewart-Johnson trade was top-10 protected.

To the best of my knowledge, it has never been guaranteed like it is in this proposal though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theneuf33 View Post
yes last year ST.louis protected there pick they traded to Colorado if it was in top 10 then colorado got next years 1st but the pick eneded up 11th overall
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Blues 1st to Colorado was top 10 protected last season.
Nice, thanks for the info. It wasn't something I had heard of happening before.

Kaoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 02:42 PM
  #29
Doug19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Country: Aland Islands
Posts: 6,155
vCash: 500
I have no interest in this from Columbus. Giving up a potential #1 pick and Rick Nash for Doughty is stupid; however considering the pick will likely be a #5ish pick I'd do the trade.

Doug19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 02:42 PM
  #30
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Just out of curiosity, which defensemen would you consider a superstar?
Lidstrom, Chara, Weber..

I see doughty just under them with players like letang and suter and now pronged wro has dropped from superstar status. Obviously this is subjective as is anyones list.

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 02:46 PM
  #31
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
they get Rick Nash, they get one of our best d prospects, they get a pick that right now is #1 overall and is "protected" to be top 5 or they get another pick in a good draft year.
I like Savard, but he's not a blow you away type prospect and the Kings are trying to find a place to play Voynov right now, nevermind Muzzin and Hickey who are borderline NHL ready and they have Campbell and Deslauriers, who I think will both be good depth d-men at least. Then they have Forbort, etc. coming into the system in the next few years. Why would we even want Savard? We'd rather a forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
deal breaks down to

Nash+CBJ 1st for Doughty+LA 1st (and another pick if jackets pick doesn't end up top 5)
CBJ goalie+Savard for Bernier

is value really laughably off? interesting.
I wouldn't trade Doughty for Nash and a flipping of 1sts won't do anything to change that, especially if it's a guarantee the highest that pick can be is 6th. Odds are that Columbus, even with this trade, will finish bottom five because the biggest problem is no one in your net can stop a damn puck and Bernier hasn't proven he can do that as a starter yet either (even though I know it is entirely possible). So that means the pick will in all likeihood be a 2013 or later pick. I don't see why we would want to wait for a pick.

Also, there really isn't a goalie on COlumbus I'd swap out Sanford for. There's no one Columbus has I'm really excited about. York maybe, but that's a long maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Has a 1st round ever been "protected" in an actual NHL trade? I mean, we see it in proposals on this board all the time but has there ever been such a precedent set in reality?
Sort of. There was some conditions on a deal between San Jose and Tampa Bay when they flipped 1st round picks in 1998 that stated no matter which pick was higher, the Lightning would get the first overall pick. It's number 3 on this list:

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/twocen...ay-sports.html

Not the same thing as what the original poster implied, but one protection. There has also been times when teams have agreed to trade a 1st to another team, but are allowed to pick which year they the pick to be from. For example, in this proposal, the Jackets could say they traded a first to LA, and that first must be from either the 2012, 2013 or 2014 drafts, at Columbus' discression. Obviously, if the Jackets first is 4th overall, they will pass on sending them a 2012 1st in hopes the 2013 or 2014 pick is a lower pick.

This happened in a trade with Phoenix and Clagary for Olli Jokinen a few years ago. Calgary actually deferred sending Phoenix their first in 2009 so they could draft Tim Erixon 23rd overall, and ended up sending their 2010 draft pick instead. The 2010 pick was 10 slots higher, 13th overall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olli_Jokinen

"On March 4, 2009, Jokinen was traded to the Calgary Flames in exchange for forwards Matthew Lombardi, Brandon Prust, and a conditional first-round draft pick in 2009 or 2010 (Calgary's choice)."

I hate using Wikipedia, but I can't find a link to an actual article. I'm sure a Flames fan can vouch for this conditional draft pick aspect of the trade.

kingsfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 02:47 PM
  #32
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
I have no interest in this from Columbus. Giving up a potential #1 pick and Rick Nash for Doughty is stupid; however considering the pick will likely be a #5ish pick I'd do the trade.
you can't ever be a contender with the defense we have put out there for our franchise's entirety and what significant free agent help are you going to get to come here? Then you also get Bernier who could be a star, too. It is not just doughty. Plus, you are still picking in the first round in a good draft year.

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 02:49 PM
  #33
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I like Savard, but he's not a blow you away type prospect and the Kings are trying to find a place to play Voynov right now, nevermind Muzzin and Hickey who are borderline NHL ready and they have Campbell and Deslauriers, who I think will both be good depth d-men at least. Then they have Forbort, etc. coming into the system in the next few years. Why would we even want Savard? We'd rather a forward.



I wouldn't trade Doughty for Nash and a flipping of 1sts won't do anything to change that, especially if it's a guarantee the highest that pick can be is 6th. Odds are that Columbus, even with this trade, will finish bottom five because the biggest problem is no one in your net can stop a damn puck and Bernier hasn't proven he can do that as a starter yet either (even though I know it is entirely possible). So that means the pick will in all likeihood be a 2013 or later pick. I don't see why we would want to wait for a pick.

Also, there really isn't a goalie on COlumbus I'd swap out Sanford for. There's no one Columbus has I'm really excited about. York maybe, but that's a long maybe.



Sort of. There was some conditions on a deal between San Jose and Tampa Bay when they flipped 1st round picks in 1998 that stated no matter which pick was higher, the Lightning would get the first overall pick. It's number 3 on this list:

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/twocen...ay-sports.html

Not the same thing as what the original poster implied, but one protection. There has also been times when teams have agreed to trade a 1st to another team, but are allowed to pick which year they the pick to be from. For example, in this proposal, the Jackets could say they traded a first to LA, and that first must be from either the 2012, 2013 or 2014 drafts, at Columbus' discression. Obviously, if the Jackets first is 4th overall, they will pass on sending them a 2012 1st in hopes the 2013 or 2014 pick is a lower pick.

This happened in a trade with Phoenix and Clagary for Olli Jokinen a few years ago. Calgary actually deferred sending Phoenix their first in 2009 so they could draft Tim Erixon 23rd overall, and ended up sending their 2010 draft pick instead. The 2010 pick was 10 slots higher, 13th overall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olli_Jokinen

"On March 4, 2009, Jokinen was traded to the Calgary Flames in exchange for forwards Matthew Lombardi, Brandon Prust, and a conditional first-round draft pick in 2009 or 2010 (Calgary's choice)."

I hate using Wikipedia, but I can't find a link to an actual article. I'm sure a Flames fan can vouch for this conditional draft pick aspect of the trade.
No no what I proposed is that you guys get the pick no matter where it is and you get an extraaaaa pick if it doesnt end up being a top 5 pick for LA.. sorry it is hard to understand, everyone.

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 02:53 PM
  #34
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
No no what I proposed is that you guys get the pick no matter where it is and you get an extraaaaa pick if it doesnt end up being a top 5 pick for LA.. sorry it is hard to understand, everyone.
Thanks for clarrifying. Sorry I misread it.

STill, I'd pass. Speaking as a fan obviously, but I'd like to see how great a homegrown potential stud blueliner could become for us for the first time since Rob Blake. And Rob Blake doesn't bring up fond memories for Kings fans.

kingsfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 02:55 PM
  #35
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Thanks for clarrifying. Sorry I misread it.

STill, I'd pass. Speaking as a fan obviously, but I'd like to see how great a homegrown potential stud blueliner could become for us for the first time since Rob Blake. And Rob Blake doesn't bring up fond memories for Kings fans.
understandable.. we have never had a stud d man here and hence the proposal.

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 02:57 PM
  #36
Capn Brown
Registered User
 
Capn Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
they get Rick Nash, they get one of our best d prospects, they get a pick that right now is #1 overall and is "protected" to be top 5 or they get another pick in a good draft year.

That would be a guy named "Nail". It's tempting.....

Capn Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 03:20 PM
  #37
Martyros
Registered User
 
Martyros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Holly Hood
Country: Armenia
Posts: 5,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
It isn't a conditional first.. lern to reed gudder.
So........the deal is even WORSE than he first thought? PERFECT!

Martyros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 03:40 PM
  #38
Crisp Breakout
Registered User
 
Crisp Breakout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 5,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyros View Post
So........the deal is even WORSE than he first thought? PERFECT!
wahsnairb, maybe you should add my clarification to the OP because it looks like people keep getting confused.

Crisp Breakout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 03:45 PM
  #39
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
wahsnairb, maybe you should add my clarification to the OP because it looks like people keep getting confused.
when I am not on my phone in class, I might. seems like a lot of posters could benefit from heading to class themselves or take the time to read instead of being so dismissive before truly reading the proposal.

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 03:46 PM
  #40
Shellz
Registered User
 
Shellz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 17,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
Lidstrom, Chara, Weber..

I see doughty just under them with players like letang and suter and now pronged wro has dropped from superstar status. Obviously this is subjective as is anyones list.
We haven't seen the peak of Doughty. He turns 22 next month. If he just below those guys now, imagine him in like 4 or 5 years. Kings are keeping Doughty.

Shellz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 03:48 PM
  #41
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shellz View Post
We haven't seen the peak of Doughty. He turns 22 next month. If he just below those guys now, imagine him in like 4 or 5 years. Kings are keeping Doughty.
I agree.. if I didn't, would i propose something with nash and potentially yakupov or another star youngster?

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 03:51 PM
  #42
Shellz
Registered User
 
Shellz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 17,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
I agree.. if I didn't, would i propose something with nash and potentially yakupov or another star youngster?
You said he isn't a superstar though. It's not like the value is bad. If that's that you're looking for.

Shellz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 03:57 PM
  #43
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shellz View Post
You said he isn't a superstar though. It's not like the value is bad. If that's that you're looking for.
I also said, directly after that, he has potenial to be one.
Not many players would return nash and a very early first.

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 05:40 PM
  #44
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,533
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
deal breaks down to

Nash+CBJ 1st for Doughty+LA 1st (and another pick if jackets pick doesn't end up top 5)
CBJ goalie+Savard for Bernier

is value really laughably off? interesting.
No it is not.
I would really consider it.
No pick is protected by something and remove your goalie.
The Kings have millions of goalie prospects.

The only condition i would involve is Murray has to be fired first.
He would turn Nash instantly into a 15 goal scorer

Kurrilino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 06:00 PM
  #45
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
No it is not.
I would really consider it.
No pick is protected by something and remove your goalie.
The Kings have millions of goalie prospects.

The only condition i would involve is Murray has to be fired first.
He would turn Nash instantly into a 15 goal scorer
if the kings have many good D and G prospects, maybe the deal would be best stripped down significantly?

Nash+CBJ 1st+CBJ 3rd for Doughty+Bernier ????

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 06:08 PM
  #46
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
i think it then would come down to where exactly those picks are going to be and where the kings are in the playoff race come deadline

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 06:19 PM
  #47
WeekendAtBernies
Registered User
 
WeekendAtBernies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
to LAK:
Nash+CBJ 1st+CBJ 3rd

to CBJ:
Doughty+Bernier

I won't go into rationale for both teams like I did on jackets board unless there is a terrible reception and I have to defend myself



stripped down the original proposal as i think the first one suffered from my suspect understanding of the kings' needs.
Personally, I dunno what Kings fans are thinking telling you the value isn't there. From a neutral POV, this would be a pretty great trade for the Kings to make. Nash + Yakupov for Doughty + Bernier? Seems legit to me. The only thing I would say is to make that 3rd into a conditional 2nd (it's a 3rd if CBJ pick is top 5, it's a 2nd otherwise).


Last edited by WeekendAtBernies: 11-22-2011 at 06:27 PM.
WeekendAtBernies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 06:25 PM
  #48
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Personally, I dunno what Kings fans are thinking telling you the value isn't there. From a neutral POV, this would be a pretty great trade for the Kings to make. Nash + Yakupov for Doughty + Bernier? Seems legit to me. The only thing I would say is to make that 3rd into a conditional 2nd (it's a 3rd if CBJ pick is top 5, it's a 2nd otherwise).
edited for you and if that was the difference in making it work for LA, me - acting as fake GM on behalf of the jackets - would say: "time to do some paperwork"

and i think most who thought it was horrible didn't understand that LA would be getting the jackets' 1st rounder.... i think

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 06:29 PM
  #49
Shellz
Registered User
 
Shellz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 17,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
I also said, directly after that, he has potenial to be one.
Not many players would return nash and a very early first.
My mistake. The value is obviously there though. I just don't think either team would do it.

Shellz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2011, 06:35 PM
  #50
WeekendAtBernies
Registered User
 
WeekendAtBernies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
edited for you and if that was the difference in making it work for LA, me - acting as fake GM on behalf of the jackets - would say: "time to do some paperwork"

and i think most who thought it was horrible didn't understand that LA would be getting the jackets' 1st rounder.... i think
Yeah... I dunno.

I mean w/ you guys trading Nash in this deal, I really think this makes the 1st almost guaranteed top 3. Which means you're getting Yakupov, Grigorenko, or Murray. And no matter which one of those you get, it's a pretty nice piece.

Like I said, I'd definitely do it from the Kings' POV.

Not so sure from the CBJ POV. I feel like you guys are done this year and I feel like a solid goalie can be acquired via free agency these days. Given that info, not sure if I'd trade Nash + Yakupov for Doughty...

I don't see how Doughty + Bernier minus Nash leaves you any closer to success.

WeekendAtBernies is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.