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11-22-2011, 02:52 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
You've exchanged a hatred of Martin for your own hatred of the roster. Neither is correct. Lacking a superstar doesn't mean we lack talent. It just means our team has to play within a tighter system to succeed.
To be fair, I have a hatred of those who composed the roster. I have nothing against Moen, Spacek or Desharnais, but I wish we had better players instead. I don't understand why it is such a crime to point out the fact that the Habs do not in fact have an above average roster.

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11-22-2011, 02:53 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
I don't understand why it is such a crime to point out the fact that the Habs do not in fact have an above average roster.
It's not a crime. It's just wrong.

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11-22-2011, 03:02 PM
  #378
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I'm not comparing these teams to the habs, I am simply saying all of these teams would love a superstar. It shows how hard its going to be to get one, so keep dreaming. We need to work with the good team we have and stop complaining about not having a superstar.

No we don't need a superstar forward to win because we have a superstar goalie. Goalies and D win championships. Look at Boston New Jersey ect...I would rather have a star goalie than an ovechkin. What has Washington ever done?
It might not be as hard if we were actually searching for one though! I mean, Jagr and Pleks played AWESOME together in the WHC's this past summer... Jagr entertained the option for coming to Montreal (by rights, if Gauthier actually responded to it with ANY interest), and we literally said. We DONT need him.

His 6 goals, 11 assists and + 7, in 18 games playing < 16 minutes a game would look awesome right now in our jersey.

To think... we dont need his 2 cups, 1600 career points, and an ICON to our top player... it was ludicrous to not even think of the option... And the worst part about it... We would have Jagr for FREE! No prospects, no players going ANYWHERE! and CHEAP! ($2.5 mill for 2 years is CHEAP)

If we arent willing to draft them, we arent willing to sign them, How else do they land in Montreal... I for one, am thinking the luck game simply isnt giving us enough results.

Lafleurs guy is right that Patches is the closest thing to it (potentially) in Montreal.. He still has a long up hill battle to get there however....

And you also cite Ovi as an example. Aside from being a wicked hockey player who has 2 Hart trophies to his young name, and a few Eastern Conference Championships, There's also other guys around the league that you arent mentioning in and around the same age as Ovi... Crosby & Malkin, who beat the dredded WINGS for a championship, and Kane & Toews who took out Philly, and Boston... WILL be likely remembered as having Superstars who showed up during playoff time (Seguin...) in combination to the d and goaltending they had...

Both NJ AND Boston... were built on Defencemen who could be argued were the best defensive defencemen on the planet (Chara, and his Norris... Scott Stevens in Jersey), and having incredibly solid depth up front to help out (Jersey had a plethora of Star players up front... and Jersey it could be argued, had a Superstar in Elias up front during those years... and Mogilny, and Arnott, and Gomez...

The depth is much, much > than what we are icing currently...

In short... if we do go deep... it's on the backs of Subban, Markov, and Price. But the likelyhood of a player on Montreal taking a game on their back and going lights out is very, very limited.

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11-22-2011, 03:04 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
It's not a crime. It's just wrong.
Well we currently have a bottom-tier defense. Our offense is middle of the pack. It was in the bottom-tier of scoring last season. But I could be wrong and we could have a truly middle of the pack roster. I guess that is good enough for some

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11-22-2011, 03:07 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Ghost # 1 View Post
It might not be as hard if we were actually searching for one though! I mean, Jagr and Pleks played AWESOME together in the WHC's this past summer... Jagr entertained the option for coming to Montreal (by rights, if Gauthier actually responded to it with ANY interest), and we literally said. We DONT need him.

His 6 goals, 11 assists and + 7, in 18 games playing < 16 minutes a game would look awesome right now in our jersey.

To think... we dont need his 2 cups, 1600 career points, and an ICON to our top player... it was ludicrous to not even think of the option... And the worst part about it... We would have Jagr for FREE! No prospects, no players going ANYWHERE! and CHEAP! ($2.5 mill for 2 years is CHEAP)

If we arent willing to draft them, we arent willing to sign them, How else do they land in Montreal... I for one, am thinking the luck game simply isnt giving us enough results.

Lafleurs guy is right that Patches is the closest thing to it (potentially) in Montreal.. He still has a long up hill battle to get there however....

And you also cite Ovi as an example. Aside from being a wicked hockey player who has 2 Hart trophies to his young name, and a few Eastern Conference Championships, There's also other guys around the league that you arent mentioning in and around the same age as Ovi... Crosby & Malkin, who beat the dredded WINGS for a championship, and Kane & Toews who took out Philly, and Boston... WILL be likely remembered as having Superstars who showed up during playoff time (Seguin...) in combination to the d and goaltending they had...

Both NJ AND Boston... were built on Defencemen who could be argued were the best defensive defencemen on the planet (Chara, and his Norris... Scott Stevens in Jersey), and having incredibly solid depth up front to help out (Jersey had a plethora of Star players up front... and Jersey it could be argued, had a Superstar in Elias up front during those years... and Mogilny, and Arnott, and Gomez...

The depth is much, much > than what we are icing currently...

In short... if we do go deep... it's on the backs of Subban, Markov, and Price. But the likelyhood of a player on Montreal taking a game on their back and going lights out is very, very limited.
Link?..Cause I thought we offered him more than Philly and rejected our offer.

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11-22-2011, 03:09 PM
  #381
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Wit the guy mentioned those teams have emerging superstars bla bla. We don't have that with Price, Subban and Pacioretty?

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11-22-2011, 03:10 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Wit the guy mentioned those teams have emerging superstars bla bla. We don't have that with Price, Subban and Pacioretty?
Just Price. The other two weren't drafted high enough.

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11-22-2011, 03:16 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Wit the guy mentioned those teams have emerging superstars bla bla. We don't have that with Price, Subban and Pacioretty?
If we devalue the meaning of superstar enough, we will soon be able to include Gionta in that group!

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11-22-2011, 03:20 PM
  #384
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It's really a fantastic priviledge to raise les boys (lol) My guys are fraternal twins But I never knew I would be so in to being a dad... until I was one lol
Haha wait, i have 3 boys 5-9-14 sometime i feel like this

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11-22-2011, 03:24 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
If we devalue the meaning of superstar enough, we will soon be able to include Gionta in that group!
It's never been an especially well-defined term, especially since it's always seemed to be more about reputation and (to a lesser degree) offensive numbers than overall hockey ability.

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11-22-2011, 03:28 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Link?..Cause I thought we offered him more than Philly and rejected our offer.
http://fr.canoe.ca/sports/nouvelles/...20-021057.html

Here's one from Svoboda (Jagr's agent).

We showed very little interest, when Jagr was knocking on our door. I would have rolled out the red freakin carpet... The 4th most prolific scorer of our time comes a knocking... and we told him his services werent necessary. If Pittsburgh could see the use of Jagr (which they did... Lemieux was trying really hard to land Jaro)... I think our guys should have seen that as well.


Last edited by Marchy79: 11-22-2011 at 03:34 PM.
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11-22-2011, 03:31 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Haha wait, i have 3 boys 5-9-14 sometime i feel like this
lol I definately feel like that sometimes too (Potty Training was such a ... lol) But hopefully Daddy's Princess will offset it when they get older

Many blessings on having 3 though Im sure they make you proud more often than not

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11-22-2011, 04:19 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Your post makes no sense. How do you explain that Subban's play improved after JM was hard on him the first half of the year?

Not sure planet you're living on, but there are not too many coaches who let their defensemen trying and beat everybody 1 on 1 with no regard for defense. The adjustments Subban is making and has made are essential for him to become the all-star or star he can be.
Yet Subban was the next "superstar" in Montreal after last year's play and now we see Martin reining him in and people are beginning to blame him for our problems.

A coach is never to blame, eh?

Will we see the threads pissing and moaning why Subban left Montreal for another city?

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11-22-2011, 04:20 PM
  #389
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Hey no problem I'm a proud dad lol As I am sure you are as well

LOL at the house divide... My house growing up, the boys (me and my father) are die hard hab fans, and the girls (my mom and sisters) love the Leafs (it made for intersting times ) Furthermore, my cousins out East (Im a bluenoser lol) are mostly Bruin fans... so it's a good get together during hockey season lol

From what my cousins tell me, they supported the B's because they are the closest team to Cape Breton... Apparently, Brad Marchand (my cousin) is the same way (hates the Habs)... I am glad he got to live out the dream though At least one of us did right?

Dont get me wrong... there is SOME Montreal support out there... just not nearly as much as I thought... But then again, I should have realized something when they all wear Red Sox caps growing up lol Definately keep in touch, god knows there is still a tonne of hockey to be played yet

I should have mentioned that Im a Grandpa too. My oldest boy Joshua married at a very young age{20} has 2 girls. Summer is 3 and Sierra is 1. Being a dad and a pop are completely different. To be able to spoil the girls on a weekend and just drop them off is awesome!!

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11-22-2011, 04:24 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Ghost # 1 View Post
lol I definately feel like that sometimes too (Potty Training was such a ... lol) But hopefully Daddy's Princess will offset it when they get older

Many blessings on having 3 though Im sure they make you proud more often than not
Definitely, and all three are goalies !

They are trying to kill me financially haha.

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11-22-2011, 04:25 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Yet Subban was the next "superstar" in Montreal after last year's play and now we see Martin reining him in and people are beginning to blame him for our problems.

A coach is never to blame, eh?

Will we see the threads pissing and moaning why Subban left Montreal for another city?
SH, you will not be able to change the Martin defenders. Nor will they be able to change yours. So really the point is moot. Most people will tell you that his decisions are based on his stubborness. Wanting to prove he is right.

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11-22-2011, 04:28 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by nfld77 View Post
I should have mentioned that Im a Grandpa too. My oldest boy Joshua married at a very young age{20} has 2 girls. Summer is 3 and Sierra is 1. Being a dad and a pop are completely different. To be able to spoil the girls on a weekend and just drop them off is awesome!!
lol no doubt my parents do the same for mine lol... Load em up with treats then drop them off here to burn it off lol Sometimes I swear it's almost payback lol

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11-22-2011, 04:28 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Yet Subban was the next "superstar" in Montreal after last year's play and now we see Martin reining him in and people are beginning to blame him for our problems.
Yeah, Martin totally shows his lack of trust in Subban by systematically using him against the top lines, not to mention giving him more icetime than anyone else. Which might have something to do with Subban dominating these matchups, but I'm just speculating.

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11-22-2011, 04:36 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
SH, you will not be able to change the Martin defenders. Nor will they be able to change yours. So really the point is moot. Most people will tell you that his decisions are based on his stubborness. Wanting to prove he is right.
I know.

I just hate reading a post on a thread about us losing and Subban is now becoming the whipping boy for some Habs fans.

Wont change their minds but at least I will point out the idiocy of that statement blaming PK.

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11-22-2011, 04:40 PM
  #395
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Definitely, and all three are goalies !

They are trying to kill me financially haha.
Holy

3 goalies... Wow that has GOT to be expensive! Here in Barrie, they take hockey very seriously... parents shell out 10's of thousands to travel... and fees have quadrupled since I played (back in the mid/late 90's). My city was actually on the (-) in THN due to the severity of seriousness hockey parents are around here lol...

Thing is, some of the kids just want to play some serious hockey(nothing wrong with that)...

Dont get me wrong... I WANTED to play serious hockey... and for a kid like me, it would have been good... But it certainly is too committing to fairweather parents to the game.

This all being said, my Kiddoes will play But they will have the option to do what they want with the sport I am dedicated enough to this sport to allow for that... But I still want them to enjoy just being a kid too...

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11-22-2011, 04:40 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Yeah, Martin totally shows his lack of trust in Subban by systematically using him against the top lines, not to mention giving him more icetime than anyone else. Which might have something to do with Subban dominating these matchups, but I'm just speculating.
Watch highlights of Subban from last year.

Then watch highlights of Subban from this year.

You tell me if you notice a difference.

Then speculate if PK decided to change his game from last year (very effective on D and offense) because he wanted to or if Martin wants him to be the type of player he is this year (effective on D and non-existent on offense).

Therein lies your answer and why an offensive minded Defenseman is struggling to score points on a team that is struggling to score points.

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11-22-2011, 04:51 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Watch highlights of Subban from last year.

Then watch highlights of Subban from this year.

You tell me if you notice a difference.
Do I really have to point out how silly a way this is to evaluate a player, especially a defenseman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Then speculate if PK decided to change his game from last year (very effective on D and offense) because he wanted to or if Martin wants him to be the type of player he is this year (effective on D and non-existent on offense).
If he's changed his game, he's improved it. He's better this year at both ends of the ice than he was last year. Unless you judge by highlights, I guess.

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11-22-2011, 04:55 PM
  #398
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Do I really have to point out how silly a way this is to evaluate a player, especially a defenseman?



If he's changed his game, he's improved it. He's better this year at both ends of the ice than he was last year. Unless you judge by highlights, I guess.
Anyway what he said has no logic Subban had the same coach last year and he got better with time during the season. So it seems Martin didn't destroyed him...

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11-22-2011, 04:58 PM
  #399
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The reason the habs have a difficult time scoring is because they don't have anyone particularly good at it. The game isn't won by outskating your opponents, it's about putting the puck in the net and we've been terribad for years.

Cammy is the only true offensively gifted player we have. We have a bunch of nice players, but none really elite on offense, cammy when not scoring is brutal too.

It isn't bad luck, a game here and a game there, sure bad luck plays a role, this has been going on for close to 200 games and it's not likely to change. If we make the playoffs we will once again be near the bottom of playoff teams in scoring, if not dead last.

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11-22-2011, 05:03 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Watch highlights of Subban from last year.

Then watch highlights of Subban from this year.

You tell me if you notice a difference.

Then speculate if PK decided to change his game from last year (very effective on D and offense) because he wanted to or if Martin wants him to be the type of player he is this year (effective on D and non-existent on offense).

Therein lies your answer and why an offensive minded Defenseman is struggling to score points on a team that is struggling to score points.
I think Subban's 1.7% Shooting percentage has a lot to do with it (down from 7.1% last year)

His assist totals arent bad though, and he REALLY turned it on the second 1/2 the past 2 years.

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