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Injury Talk 2.0: Markov out 3+ weeks (minor surgery) Campoli & Spacek practicing

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Old
11-22-2011, 04:45 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
Not sure how I feel about Markov coming back in the lineup a week earlier (than speculated) against a tougher/bigger opponent. As good a test as any I guess...
Anaheim is anything but tough. Parros fights like a boss, but he's not that aggressive and he's toned it down lately. DSP is the only one that can crush people, but still.

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11-22-2011, 04:47 PM
  #102
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I can cal myself a HABS fan for the fact that I do not agree with management and this contract for an aging oft injured D man. I had no issue with them re signing him but seriously 5.75 a year for 3 years when he hasn't played in almost 3 seasons for more than say 20 odd games really.
I don't know of any other fan base, that has a select few who turn on their injured players...only Habs fans...

If he had signed with the Red Wings, or Washington and went on to finish out his career, and win a Cup, we would have several on here that would have beaten the organization up for that too...just no winning sometimes...

Anyhow, most fans are excited that Markov is close to returning...most...we should not be wishing injury on the guy, in practice no less...

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11-22-2011, 04:50 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
40 games boy for 5.75 a year I would hope we get more than that out of him. I know his deal then wasn't 5.75 but after the injuries he has dealt with I am not sure what PG was thinking offering him that deal. I am figuring 20 games max and another injury he seems to be a magnet for them over the last 3 seasons he has also had other injuries through his career. Recent ones more serious than past ones mind you but still more injuries than you like from your top D man. I would never sign Pronger either his injury list is even worse.
You understand that IF he gets hurt long term again his salary will not count against the cap? There is no risk involved except for molson's wallet, so what is your point?

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Old
11-22-2011, 05:30 PM
  #104
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You understand that IF he gets hurt long term again his salary will not count against the cap? There is no risk involved except for molson's wallet, so what is your point?
Even at that, I'm pretty sure Molson and/or the players have heavy duty insurance. Not sure how it works, but if it's anything like multinational companies, insurance will pay a fairly large sum of the player's salary should injury occur.

Of course given Markov's recent bad luck it must cost a damned fortune and probably has crappier coverage than who's had minimal medical history, but still...

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11-22-2011, 05:49 PM
  #105
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You understand that IF he gets hurt long term again his salary will not count against the cap? There is no risk involved except for molson's wallet, so what is your point?
I know and never once said anything to the contrary I just think it was a stupid contract to offer a guy with the injuries he has had over the last few seasons. In teh old thread I mentioned that a 1 year deal at 1 to 1.5 so we could evaluate his game and see how he would hold up through a season. If all went well sign him on for a couple more at a higher rate at that time.

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11-22-2011, 05:59 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I know and never once said anything to the contrary I just think it was a stupid contract to offer a guy with the injuries he has had over the last few seasons. In teh old thread I mentioned that a 1 year deal at 1 to 1.5 so we could evaluate his game and see how he would hold up through a season. If all went well sign him on for a couple more at a higher rate at that time.
Do you honestly think that Markov stays for a 1 year 1-1.5 mil/year?

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

There is a big difference between a guy like Markov who has had crappy luck with injuries(like getting cut by your goalie's skate and missing half a season) and a guy like Benoir Brunet who missed like 300 games in his career to 25 or 30 different minor injuries. Before his current streak of bad luck he played an average of 75 games a year his first 6 years in the NHL.

If he was on the UFA market I'm sure he gets at least what the Habs offered if not more. Then what does PG do, sign Wisniewski? Come on now...

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11-22-2011, 06:15 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Do you honestly think that Markov stays for a 1 year 1-1.5 mil/year?

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

There is a big difference between a guy like Markov who has had crappy luck with injuries(like getting cut by your goalie's skate and missing half a season) and a guy like Benoir Brunet who missed like 300 games in his career to 25 or 30 different minor injuries. Before his current streak of bad luck he played an average of 75 games a year his first 6 years in the NHL.

If he was on the UFA market I'm sure he gets at least what the Habs offered if not more. Then what does PG do, sign Wisniewski? Come on now...
Well to be honest atleast Wiz is playing and producing unlike our 5 million dollar man and no I am not talking about Cams lol.

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11-22-2011, 06:16 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I can cal myself a HABS fan for the fact that I do not agree with management and this contract for an aging oft injured D man. I had no issue with them re signing him but seriously 5.75 a year for 3 years when he hasn't played in almost 3 seasons for more than say 20 odd games really.
Lol, love it when fans take money spent by a team personal... Omg, 5.75, bank is broken, bank is broken arggggggg!

Easy there man. 1) money isn't yours to b1tch about and 2) if injured bad again, they can spend it.

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11-22-2011, 06:21 PM
  #109
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Lol, love it when fans take money spent by a team personal... Omg, 5.75, bank is broken, bank is broken arggggggg!

Easy there man. 1) money isn't yours to b1tch about and 2) if injured bad again, they can spend it.
You also didn't read previous posts. I never said we couldn't spend it I just think it was not a great deal to sign him to read some of the posts just above yours you will see.

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11-22-2011, 06:33 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I know and never once said anything to the contrary I just think it was a stupid contract to offer a guy with the injuries he has had over the last few seasons. In teh old thread I mentioned that a 1 year deal at 1 to 1.5 so we could evaluate his game and see how he would hold up through a season. If all went well sign him on for a couple more at a higher rate at that time.
1 yr deal at 1 to 1.5M... I am not sure what to say...

Both you and Mr Hab make some good points regarding Markov, and the organization and the way things have unfolded, but then comments like that, and you lose your credibility...

Let's hope Markov gets back, stays healthy, so we can argue about JM's coaching decisions...

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11-22-2011, 06:34 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
Well to be honest atleast Wiz is playing and producing unlike our 5 million dollar man and no I am not talking about Cams lol.
That's impossible. Wiz can't be playing because he has had multiple knee injuries and is therefore unable to play forever. Am I doing it right?


Also I'm not sure -9 in 12 games is what we should be looking to spend 5+ mil on.

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11-22-2011, 06:39 PM
  #112
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That's impossible. Wiz can't be playing because he has had multiple knee injuries and is therefore unable to play forever. Am I doing it right?


Also I'm not sure -9 in 12 games is what we should be looking to spend 5+ mil on.
Look at the Jackets as a whole that team is a collective minus Nash is a minus 12 so would you say no thanks to him in our lineup?

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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
1 yr deal at 1 to 1.5M... I am not sure what to say...

Both you and Mr Hab make some good points regarding Markov, and the organization and the way things have unfolded, but then comments like that, and you lose your credibility...

Let's hope Markov gets back, stays healthy, so we can argue about JM's coaching decisions...
That would have been my ask of the organization to offer I am sure closer to 2 to 2.5 would have been more realistic that was a wish the number I threw out there. I just think a short 1 year deal at a reasonable rate and if Markov was serious about wanting to be here he would accept and say I will show you then you can show me the money.

LOL Don't get me started on JM ugh I hate that his system stiffles our guys that have any semblence of creativity and can wheel. His coaching makes me cringe.


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11-22-2011, 06:53 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
Look at the Jackets as a whole that team is a collective minus Nash is a minus 12 so would you say no thanks to him in our lineup?



That would have been my ask of the organization to offer I am sure closer to 2 to 2.5 would have been more realistic that was a wish the number I threw out there. I just think a short 1 year deal at a reasonable rate and if Markov was serious about wanting to be here he would accept and say I will show you then you can show me the money.

LOL Don't get me started on JM ugh I hate that his system stiffles our guys that have any semblence of creativity and can wheel. His coaching makes me cringe.
I'm not sure that you have any idea of how contract discussions work. Generally, as the years in the contract increase, the dollars per year decrease. Not the other way around. If a one-year deal had been on the table, it would have been for a hell of a lot more than 5.75. Markov knew just as well as anyone that his career could potentially be over after the next shot to his knee, so there's no way he going to accept a low-dollar, one-year deal.

Besides, what you see as "reasonable", Markov and his agent see as "insult".

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Old
11-22-2011, 07:01 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by JIMVINNY View Post
I'm not sure that you have any idea of how contract discussions work. Generally, as the years in the contract increase, the dollars per year decrease. Not the other way around. If a one-year deal had been on the table, it would have been for a hell of a lot more than 5.75. Markov knew just as well as anyone that his career could potentially be over after the next shot to his knee, so there's no way he going to accept a low-dollar, one-year deal.

Besides, what you see as "reasonable", Markov and his agent see as "insult".
Unfortunatly not just for Markov it is the way it seems to be in pro sports which also leads me to believe there will be another work stoppage with the PA having Fehr running things for them.

On topic though as for Markov accepting the deal for a one year term like I said if he truly is eager to continue his tenure in MTL it may have been something he considered who knows if PG even offered it especially considering his injury.

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11-22-2011, 07:01 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by hockeyjockey View Post
Lol, love it when fans take money spent by a team personal... Omg, 5.75, bank is broken, bank is broken arggggggg!

Easy there man. 1) money isn't yours to b1tch about and 2) if injured bad again, they can spend it.
Now this sounds like the voice of reason.
The question no one seems to be asking is...." If not Markov; Who?"
Let's rewind and say that we didn't re-sign Markov this past summer, then who do we get to replace him? Was there any one available to replace a player like a healthy Markov?
Ultimately, that's why I think PG put pen to paper and signed him, options were few and The Wiz wasn't one of them

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11-22-2011, 07:06 PM
  #116
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Now this sounds like the voice of reason.
The question no one seems to be asking is...." If not Markov; Who?"
Let's rewind and say that we didn't re-sign Markov this past summer, then who do we get to replace him? Was there any one available to replace a player like a healthy Markov?
Ultimately, that's why I think PG put pen to paper and signed him, options were few and The Wiz wasn't one of them
Well I think Hammr with a year maybe 2 at a little less than what he was getting I am willing to bet he would have stayed in MTL if a deal had been offered. He was pretty solid for us and a good guy to put say Diaz or Weber with so solidify that pairing. Wiz was another option not sure about the dollars to keep him and it sounds like we never even offered him a deal. Jovo would have been an option I believe it o=would have been via a trade as I do not believe he signed in FLA but was traded.

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11-22-2011, 07:13 PM
  #117
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Unfortunatly not just for Markov it is the way it seems to be in pro sports which also leads me to believe there will be another work stoppage with the PA having Fehr running things for them.

On topic though as for Markov accepting the deal for a one year term like I said if he truly is eager to continue his tenure in MTL it may have been something he considered who knows if PG even offered it especially considering his injury.
I think you`re kidding yourself if you think Markov would have accepted a 1 year deal at 1.5M...and you`d also be kidding yourself if you think the Habs would of even insulted him with such an offer.

The way you want the Habs to run operations, they wouldn`t be able to sign anyone...Markov is a tenured veteran of this organization, he`s respected and the last time his contract was up, he took less than he would have commanded on the open market to stay in Montreal...offering him 1.5M on a 1 year deal would be the ultimate slap in the face, they`d be better off just telling him they`re not interested in his services anymore.

Either way, re-signing Markov was risky...everyone acknowledges that, but it was also a no-brainer, you don`t just walk away from your best player. Obviously, before re-signing him to his deal, the Habs did their homework...so you`re just going to have to trust that world class doctors know a bit more about Markov`s knee injury than you do.

It seems you have this theory that the Habs just blindly called up Markov and gave him 5.75M without verifying anything...get real man

I hope Markov can get a bit of luck on his side and avoid the injury bug, cause I can`t wait to call out those who have written him off so quickly

He can`t come back soon enough for me

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11-22-2011, 07:17 PM
  #118
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Well I think Hammr with a year maybe 2 at a little less than what he was getting I am willing to bet he would have stayed in MTL if a deal had been offered. He was pretty solid for us and a good guy to put say Diaz or Weber with so solidify that pairing. Wiz was another option not sure about the dollars to keep him and it sounds like we never even offered him a deal. Jovo would have been an option I believe it o=would have been via a trade as I do not believe he signed in FLA but was traded.
So in essence, we sign Hamrlik who the whole fanbase felt couldn't play the big minutes anymore for extended lengths (and it showed in the playoffs), as for pairing young guys with vets, i believe thats why Gill was retained instead of Hamrlik

Wiz at his dollars is not a better deal than Markov, and both have similar injury histories so the risk is about the same, yet Markov is a better Dman

As for Jovo as much as I liked the guy for some reason he's not the player he once used to be. let's say we bit, what assets would we have used in that trade?

Markov is more valuable to this team than any of the other options, just remember a season is a marathon and not a sprint. Crosby came back with great fanfare and hoopla why can't markov?

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11-22-2011, 07:19 PM
  #119
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Well I think Hammr with a year maybe 2 at a little less than what he was getting I am willing to bet he would have stayed in MTL if a deal had been offered. He was pretty solid for us and a good guy to put say Diaz or Weber with so solidify that pairing. Wiz was another option not sure about the dollars to keep him and it sounds like we never even offered him a deal. Jovo would have been an option I believe it o=would have been via a trade as I do not believe he signed in FLA but was traded.
The Habs DID try to re-sign Hamrlik, they couldn`t come to an agreement. Whatever Hamrlik signed for, tack on another 1M to 1.5M for him had he signed in Montreal.

Wiz? He just priced himself out of Montreal...he's a #3-4 dman, getting paid like a #1, even without Markov, Wiz wouldn't be the Habs #1 dman, he wasn't last year. So why the hell would you advocate paying him like one?

Jovo? really?

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11-22-2011, 07:22 PM
  #120
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The Habs DID try to re-sign Hamrlik, they couldn`t come to an agreement. Whatever Hamrlik signed for, tack on another 1M to 1.5M for him had he signed in Montreal.

Wiz? He just priced himself out of Montreal...he's a #3-4 dman, getting paid like a #1, even without Markov, Wiz wouldn't be the Habs #1 dman, he wasn't last year. So why the hell would you advocate paying him like one?

Jovo? really?
Kinda sounds like what I said, but with a slightly different delivery

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11-22-2011, 07:45 PM
  #121
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Welcome back, General Markov. Thank God you're back.

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11-22-2011, 08:11 PM
  #122
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Very good news. Much like the Pens took their time, I think the Habs are holding the same approach. They will take their sweet time.
I can see him practice for 2-4weeks with the team before getting back on the ice.
Can't wait for him to be back on ice with us, even on one foot he'll make a difference.

I don't understand how anybody can be against the signing, no matter how risky it was. Markov, even injured, was the best FA. It was a must.
Then again, some people thought Komi was better than Markov..

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11-22-2011, 08:16 PM
  #123
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Well to be honest atleast Wiz is playing and producing unlike our 5 million dollar man and no I am not talking about Cams lol.
You might want to check Wiz's stats. 8 pts in 12 games, not bad, but a -9, which is third worst on the team, not sure if it's worth the coin. And that is a lot of money for a long time. don't forget, if we signed Wiz, it would have been longer than 3 years, and no Markov.

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11-22-2011, 08:18 PM
  #124
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You might want to check Wiz's stats. 8 pts in 12 games, not bad, but a -9, which is third worst on the team, not sure if it's worth the coin. And that is a lot of money for a long time. don't forget, if we signed Wiz, it would have been longer than 3 years, and no Markov.
Wiz only scored once, that's the most important stat considering he's paid for that booming shot.
Playing on such a crappy team doesn't help though, but I didn't even want him re-signed at a decent price, so at his current salary, it's not even a discussion.

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11-22-2011, 08:28 PM
  #125
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You might want to check Wiz's stats. 8 pts in 12 games, not bad, but a -9, which is third worst on the team, not sure if it's worth the coin. And that is a lot of money for a long time. don't forget, if we signed Wiz, it would have been longer than 3 years, and no Markov.
I commented on the -9 earlier saying that Nash is also on that team and at -12 so the +/- isn't a stat I put much faith into. At -12 would you say no to Nash on our team?

Sorry off topic a little bit and now back on topic with injury talk.

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