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With WW and Rupp coming back...

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Old
11-22-2011, 09:30 PM
  #26
Tawnos
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I'm confused. I thought we decided that those three guys are traveling with the team for the Thanksgiving dinner, but the fact that Staal is flying is a good sign? Two weeks ago, Wolski was out for 4 weeks...

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11-22-2011, 09:36 PM
  #27
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Devioux >>> Rupp tbh.

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11-22-2011, 09:37 PM
  #28
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I tend to view Rupp as a Matteau type player

established veteran with playoff experience

knows his role is to grind, play defensive hockey and occasionally drop the mitts (although with matteau no real fighting prowess)

Wolski had hernia surgery, he isn't returning any time soon. My guess is around the new year

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11-22-2011, 09:39 PM
  #29
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I would be very surprised if Deveaux stayed up over Rupp. I have no problem with Deveaux, but Rupp has not really had an honest chance to make his mark if he was injured. I think Rupp is more talented than Deveaux, and will be a scoring threat. I`d be surprised if Rupp doesn`t assert himself very well and really help.

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11-22-2011, 09:40 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Some people are way too hard on Rupp. He looked mediocre in his first 7 games here, so now he belongs in the AHL? Come the **** on. He has been a very solid fourth line player throughout his career. Way too quick to write him off.

He has been a full time player on good Pittsburgh and NJ teams for the past five years. Now he sucks because he didn't impress in seven games here. Got it.
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Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
I tend to view Rupp as a Matteau type player

established veteran with playoff experience

knows his role is to grind, play defensive hockey and occasionally drop the mitts (although with matteau no real fighting prowess)

Wolski had hernia surgery, he isn't returning any time soon. My guess is around the new year
Seriously. There's a reason the team gave him 3 years. It has nothing to do with anything anyone has seen in the seven games he has played so far (likely on an injured knee the whole time). Yes, he's a fourth liner, but he's an above average fourth liner - who can also throw down.

I am decidedly anti-goon - and I was wholeheartedly in favor of the signing, because he can both play and fight.

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11-22-2011, 11:13 PM
  #31
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i havent seen anything particularly impressive with Deveaux. Ill take Rupp back thank you.

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11-22-2011, 11:22 PM
  #32
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We haven't seen the real Rupp yet. Anyone who's watched him throughout his career will tell you the first few games of the year isn't an indication of how valuable a player he is. Bottom line is there aren't 12 superior forwards when you consider all things. He was playing at about 65%.

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11-23-2011, 12:17 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by jacko23 View Post
you know how the brass does it.... drury scored a backbreaking goal against us in the playoffs--we sign him. gaborik scored 5 against us in one game---we sign him (granted, not the following season) brashear took out one of our best faceoff guys. what do we do so he doesnt take anybody else out on the team? we sign him. rupp had a hatty against us last year---we sign him. i hope parise does something horrible against us this year
haha so true.

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11-23-2011, 05:37 AM
  #34
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Both Rupp & Wolski were injured in the beginning of the year. That reflected on their play. Therefore one cannot judge their performances then. But one has to say that both have quite substantial caphits meaning that they need to be a lot better when they come back. Which they very well might be.

I would not be surprised to see a lineup of -
Wolski - AA - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Richards - Cally
Fedotenko/Avery - Stepan - MZA
Rupp/Avery - Boyle - Prust

When all are back
I think that was Torts original plan at the beginning of the year (switch AA & Richards) but injuries got in the way...

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11-23-2011, 06:38 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i havent seen anything particularly impressive with Deveaux. Ill take Rupp back thank you.
Deveaux at .5 > Rupp at 1.5

A guy making 1.5 better score more then single digits.

I understand he's a wiley vet, and a good locker room guy... but its a business, and as a player he's a complete waste of cap space.

Our fourth line can play for league minimum.

Allocate the extra cap space on a player that will actually impact the team in a productive way.

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11-23-2011, 06:39 AM
  #36
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My feeling on Rupp is that he will shine in the playoffs. Chip in an important goal, be physical presence on the forecheck, and protect guys like Gabby.

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11-23-2011, 06:58 AM
  #37
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My feeling on Rupp is that he will shine in the playoffs. Chip in an important goal, be physical presence on the forecheck, and protect guys like Gabby.
Ugh... this notion that a guy on the bench will somehow protect a guy on the ice is redundant and cliche.

How is Rupp going to protect Gaborik?

Rupp was also supposed to stop Prust from fighting...

Rupp can only help Rupp. He's slow, he has limited skill, and he's not much of a fighter. What does he do to warrant his contract?

He scored a Stanley Cup Final goal for the Devils a decade ago, great, he's been mediocre at best his entire career.

Maybe its just me, but in a capped league, I don't like the notion of wasting valuable roster positions and cap space on players who have limited impact ON THE ICE.

1.5 for 3 goals per year isn't exactly "bang for your buck". And there are those that wonder why we struggle to generate offensive pressure? Because there's enough cap space being wasted on mediocrity that it effects the on ice product.

Rupp, Christensen, Avery, Fedotenko, and to a lesser extent Deveaux (lesser extent because his cap hit is only 500K).

None of those guys provide anything particularly unique. They're redundant pieces.

Boyle, Prust, and Deveaux are fine.

We could take Rupp, Christensen, Avery, and Fedotenko and replace them with cheaper options from Connecticut, and acquire a legit top six winger via trade. We have enough pieces, and there are enough teams on the verge of mailing in the season.

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11-23-2011, 07:26 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Seriously. There's a reason the team gave him 3 years.
I'm not going to say that Rupp was a bad signing yet, but there were reasons why we gave 3 year contracts to Boogaard, Kotalik, Voros and Rissmiller as well. Obviously they were bad reasons. Let's hope Rupp doesn't turn out the same.

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11-23-2011, 07:30 AM
  #39
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Rupp was injured, gotta give him more than a handfull of games before judging him. Dev should sit when Rupp is good to go.

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11-23-2011, 08:06 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I'm not going to say that Rupp was a bad signing yet, but there were reasons why we gave 3 year contracts to Boogaard, Kotalik, Voros and Rissmiller as well. Obviously they were bad reasons. Let's hope Rupp doesn't turn out the same.
Hahaha. Fair point.

I guess I should have more specifically stated that they gave him more than the minimum that Deveaux makes because of the combination of attributes that he brings. They don't view him as an interchangeable 4th line goon; they brought him on board to be a veteran, playoff-tested member of a 4th line that could play a regular shift in order to bang, bring energy, wear down the other team - and, yes, get involved in fisticuffs ,if necessary.

Whereas Deveaux is a career minor league goon who has "succeeded" by not looking too terrible while receiving 5:35 of ice time per game on a patchwork 4th line that Tortorella is currently using to carry a PP specialist, a PK specialist and... Deveaux.

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11-23-2011, 08:15 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
For what Rupp provides... what exactly does he provide?... he's not worth the money he's being paid. Plain and simple. Deveaux is a better skater, works the boards fine, fights, hits, and has a nice blend of cockiness.

The extra cash Rupp is being paid, can be allocated elsewhere at the trade deadline.

I could care less that Rupp was on winning teams in the past, he's still not worth his contract right now. And that's what matters: now.

We are complaining about goals, and we are wasting 1.5 for the next 3 years on a guy who has 50 NHL goals in over 500 games...

1.5 could be used toward (meaning, Rupp's money and someone else's) a player that can score, at the deadline. Deveaux fills Rupp's role for a little over 500K. That's a full mil less.
I said nothing about whether I'd prefer Rupp or Deveaux. And yes, Rupp is a little overpaid. My main issue was with you saying that he should be "rotting in the AHL," as if he's some worthless sack of ****. Again, he has been a full time player on division/conference/Cup-winning teams the past five years. He's a good player. The seven games he played this year while banged up don't change that.

To the issue of who I prefer--the cap is not a concern at this point. Not in the slightest. If we need to add a player closer to the deadline and that involves disposing of Rupp, then fine. But it's not an issue right now. And right now, Rupp is better than Deveaux. He's a better hitter, a better fighter and adds a smidgeon more offense. He's an experienced, winning player. When we find ourselves needing cap space for a deadline move we can reevaluate, but we're not there yet. Until then we should ice the best team we can each night. And the best team we can ice includes Rupp over Deveaux.

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11-23-2011, 08:33 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Ugh... this notion that a guy on the bench will somehow protect a guy on the ice is redundant and cliche.

How is Rupp going to protect Gaborik?

Rupp was also supposed to stop Prust from fighting...

Rupp can only help Rupp. He's slow, he has limited skill, and he's not much of a fighter. What does he do to warrant his contract?

He scored a Stanley Cup Final goal for the Devils a decade ago, great, he's been mediocre at best his entire career.

Maybe its just me, but in a capped league, I don't like the notion of wasting valuable roster positions and cap space on players who have limited impact ON THE ICE.

1.5 for 3 goals per year isn't exactly "bang for your buck". And there are those that wonder why we struggle to generate offensive pressure? Because there's enough cap space being wasted on mediocrity that it effects the on ice product.

Rupp, Christensen, Avery, Fedotenko, and to a lesser extent Deveaux (lesser extent because his cap hit is only 500K).

None of those guys provide anything particularly unique. They're redundant pieces.
Boyle, Prust, and Deveaux are fine.

We could take Rupp, Christensen, Avery, and Fedotenko and replace them with cheaper options from Connecticut, and acquire a legit top six winger via trade. We have enough pieces, and there are enough teams on the verge of mailing in the season.
Huh?

Avery has been and continues to be a more consistent point producer throughout their careers (last year being an anomoly for BOTH guys)

In 6 games this year Avery has 2 goals, in 17 games this year Boyle has 4 points.

If your focus in on actual production, then you need to flip flop those names.

If you start bringing in other aspects of a players game, then you clearly do not understand the value that Rupp brings to the team.

the names that should be on the outs here in NY are not the likes of Avery and Rupp, they should be Wolski and Christensen. Talk about saving cap space and getting productive players.

Wolski specifically plays a role that demands production and his cap hit is way more crippling than either Rupp or Avery (actually both tbh)

Between Wolski and EC, that's 4.7 off the books. We should look to use THAT cap space for a legit top line LW. Not the piddly 1.5 from Rupp or 1.9 from Avery.

the 4th line does NOT demand production regardless of what you think. The 4th line demands defensive responsibility and physicality and if they can add a few goals, great. Rupp can take a regular shift as a 4th liner. He's solid defensively and can chip in the odd goal here and there.

I think getting Rupp back and playing him with Prust and Boyle on the 4th line (as that's what all three players are, 4th liners) will help this team a great deal.

Double A - D-Step - Gabby
Dubi - Bad Brad - Cally
Avery - EC/Wolski - Fedotenko
Prust - Boyle - Rupp

And if Wolski has to be in the line-up, insert him at the 3rd line center position. May force him to actually use his talents and keep his head in the game. Additionally any defensive decencies he has can be protected by two solid defensive players in Avery and Fedotenko

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11-23-2011, 08:53 AM
  #43
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I'm not trying to justify the Rupp signing. It is what it is. He's here, so I'm hoping we get something out of him.

I think everyone agrees that we have too many bottom 6 players on this team.

As far as protecting "from the bench", you mean Torts cant send Rupp out for a shift if he sees someone banging Gabby? And let Rupp get physical with the guy?

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11-23-2011, 09:39 AM
  #44
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Well if the team is winning and playing pretty well why would anyone get the boot. I like Deveaux game and well Christ he is the guy if he applies himself more consistently he will stay if not he wont. Avery should not go anywhere ever again.

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11-23-2011, 09:41 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I said nothing about whether I'd prefer Rupp or Deveaux. And yes, Rupp is a little overpaid. My main issue was with you saying that he should be "rotting in the AHL," as if he's some worthless sack of ****. Again, he has been a full time player on division/conference/Cup-winning teams the past five years. He's a good player. The seven games he played this year while banged up don't change that.

To the issue of who I prefer--the cap is not a concern at this point. Not in the slightest. If we need to add a player closer to the deadline and that involves disposing of Rupp, then fine. But it's not an issue right now. And right now, Rupp is better than Deveaux. He's a better hitter, a better fighter and adds a smidgeon more offense. He's an experienced, winning player. When we find ourselves needing cap space for a deadline move we can reevaluate, but we're not there yet. Until then we should ice the best team we can each night. And the best team we can ice includes Rupp over Deveaux.
Ideally both guys should be in he lineup as we need that big body presence to wear down opposing D man. Boyle has improved in that area but still goes games withou protecting a puck. If anything keep WW and Christ out and those two in esp during playoffs.

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11-23-2011, 09:41 AM
  #46
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Too early to even ask the question.

Barring injuries and line shuffling, I think Anisimov returns to center, Wolski goes back with Stepan and Gaborik, EC gets benched. Rupp replaces Deveaux.

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11-23-2011, 09:51 AM
  #47
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Too early to even ask the question.

Barring injuries and line shuffling, I think Anisimov returns to center, Wolski goes back with Stepan and Gaborik, EC gets benched. Rupp replaces Deveaux.

hmmm interesting view, lets say this does happen, and we bring up hagelin. I would think AA may be put at wing going by torts line trends

Wolski Stepan Gaborik

Dubinsky Richards Callahan

Hagelin Boyle Anisimov

Avery Rupp Fedetanko


Not bad, of course would rather see 3rd line be hagelin, Anisimov, MZA..... but we all know that won't happen

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11-23-2011, 10:17 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Rupp played a few of those games with a bum knee. Maybe all of them.
That excuse didn't seem to help Wolski around here. Rupp is being paid a lot of money to fill a role that guys half his price can do just as good. I don't blame the player, he is what he is, but Slats just has to give a 4th liner 1M+ contracts ever summer, it's realy amazing. The only one he should have caved and given the big $$ to was Orr and he said no to him.

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11-23-2011, 02:17 PM
  #49
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Orr was worth the money, but Rupp wasn't? Really? The ONLY thing Orr does is fight. And while he does that very well,, he brings nothing else to the table. Rupp is a fighter but is also capable of taking a regular shift and contributing in other areas.

Neither are worth the money, but if you had to choose, go with the guy that isn't completely one-dimensional.

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11-23-2011, 02:35 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Orr was worth the money, but Rupp wasn't? Really? The ONLY thing Orr does is fight. And while he does that very well,, he brings nothing else to the table. Rupp is a fighter but is also capable of taking a regular shift and contributing in other areas.

Neither are worth the money, but if you had to choose, go with the guy that isn't completely one-dimensional.
yeah while Prust is duking it out Rupp was watching even though he was injured

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