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Old
11-23-2011, 09:58 AM
  #226
Patty Roy
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
Beyond being a RH shot, what does he bring to the table that a guy like say Eller doesn't?

Not being an arse here, just truly curious
Upside. I'm far from convinced that Eller has the skills to be top 2 line on a very good team. I see him more as eventually being a very good 3rd.

Turris has the potential to play top 2 lines. But you also can't ignore the huge value in getting rid of Gomez and his contract in that proposed deal. Clearing $7 million and change off our cap hit without having to deal with all the negativity involved in sending him down to the minors would be HUGE.

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11-23-2011, 10:00 AM
  #227
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Where your drafted means ****all, I think we've proven that with Fischer, Pouliot, etc...

He could be first overall, He still hasn't proven anything to deserve a 1st round pick.

His upside I can't say I see him as a 1st line potential player, maybe a solid 2A center, but even so its speculative and again I haven't seen anything from him that is worthy of a 1st.
Your scale is way out of whack.

By your definition if a team called and offered a 2nd for Beaulieu we should jump on it because he "hasn't proven anything to deserve a 1st"?

It's not like Turris has flatlined since he was drafted, he put up over 1 PPGM in the NCAA at 18, was rushed to the NHL at 19 and struggled but had a very good year AHL at 20. He showed some flashes on being a #1 calibre center.

If you can get a guy like that on a cheap contract and knocking on the NHL door for a 1st that will probably be mid 1st round and get an 18 year old that's 3 years behind him in terms of development...it's a no brainer.

If you did a poll of a #15 overall pick vs Turris and ask them to chose who they can have RIGHT NOW it would be a landslide.

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11-23-2011, 10:02 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Yeah Gomez and our 1st for Turris is a no brainer...losing the Gomez contract is huge value in and of itself.
Turris for a 1st alone is a no brainer, you worry about Gomez after if they don't take him in the deal.

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11-23-2011, 10:09 AM
  #229
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Turris for a 1st alone is a no brainer, you worry about Gomez after if they don't take him in the deal.
I'm not disagreeing with you.

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Old
11-23-2011, 10:24 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Your scale is way out of whack.

By your definition if a team called and offered a 2nd for Beaulieu we should jump on it because he "hasn't proven anything to deserve a 1st"?

It's not like Turris has flatlined since he was drafted, he put up over 1 PPGM in the NCAA at 18, was rushed to the NHL at 19 and struggled but had a very good year AHL at 20. He showed some flashes on being a #1 calibre center.

If you can get a guy like that on a cheap contract and knocking on the NHL door for a 1st that will probably be mid 1st round and get an 18 year old that's 3 years behind him in terms of development...it's a no brainer.

If you did a poll of a #15 overall pick vs Turris and ask them to chose who they can have RIGHT NOW it would be a landslide.
Beaulieu is what? 18? 19?

I mean really dude, apples and pineapples, I could do that too,

Turris is 22, is already asking for $$ when hes had what? 1 good stint in the AHL? and I should just attribute his potential, to the fact that hes on a bad team? So what does Phoenix say in order to get that first?

Phx GM: "Oh well he was 3rd overall, he had a great AHL season 2 years ago, and tore up the BCHL? aswell as a ppg in the WCHA?, oh yeah and hes on a bad team and we somewhat stunted his growth?"

No.

If you want to pay a first overall for Turris who Has not proven anything to deserve a first you go right ahead, but calling a Tiger (Beaulieu), and a Goat (Turris) identical because they are both animals is not a logical way of looking at it.


And to go one step further, we traded Latendresse for Benoit Pouliot.

Pouliot was selected 4th overall, and we did not give up a first for him. By your standards we got a high way robbery and seriously underpaid to get him.

You see where I'm going with this?

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11-23-2011, 10:55 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
Beaulieu is what? 18? 19?

I mean really dude, apples and pineapples, I could do that too,

Turris is 22, is already asking for $$ when hes had what? 1 good stint in the AHL? and I should just attribute his potential, to the fact that hes on a bad team? So what does Phoenix say in order to get that first?

Phx GM: "Oh well he was 3rd overall, he had a great AHL season 2 years ago, and tore up the BCHL? aswell as a ppg in the WCHA?, oh yeah and hes on a bad team and we somewhat stunted his growth?"

No.

If you want to pay a first overall for Turris who Has not proven anything to deserve a first you go right ahead, but calling a Tiger (Beaulieu), and a Goat (Turris) identical because they are both animals is not a logical way of looking at it.


And to go one step further, we traded Latendresse for Benoit Pouliot.

Pouliot was selected 4th overall, and we did not give up a first for him. By your standards we got a high way robbery and seriously underpaid to get him.

You see where I'm going with this?
Comparing Turris to Pouliot is ridiculous. We got fleeced in the Latendresse trade.

Pouliot was looking like a bad pick from the day he was drafted.

Just compare their AHL stats...

Pouliot 146 GP 39-48-87
Turris 86 GP 28-43-71
Had Turris played AHL at 21 like Pouiot did his PPGM stats would be around 1 PPGM while Pouliot is at 0.6(Chipchura level).

It's not all about where he got drafted, he is a very skilled young player on the verge of a break out, did you watch him play last year?


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11-23-2011, 11:06 AM
  #232
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I think the team has enough PP/soft minute specialists, I don't see Turris becoming any more than that. Desharnais does a fine job in the same role.

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11-23-2011, 11:43 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Your scale is way out of whack.

By your definition if a team called and offered a 2nd for Beaulieu we should jump on it because he "hasn't proven anything to deserve a 1st"?

It's not like Turris has flatlined since he was drafted, he put up over 1 PPGM in the NCAA at 18, was rushed to the NHL at 19 and struggled but had a very good year AHL at 20. He showed some flashes on being a #1 calibre center.

If you can get a guy like that on a cheap contract and knocking on the NHL door for a 1st that will probably be mid 1st round and get an 18 year old that's 3 years behind him in terms of development...it's a no brainer.

If you did a poll of a #15 overall pick vs Turris and ask them to chose who they can have RIGHT NOW it would be a landslide.
You got to be kidding right?

Turris was an RFA, a team could have offered him a one year deal at $2 million and it would have only cost them a 2nd round pick, who in their right mind would offer a mid 1st round pick for him now?

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Old
11-23-2011, 12:08 PM
  #234
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You got to be kidding right?

Turris was an RFA, a team could have offered him a one year deal at $2 million and it would have only cost them a 2nd round pick, who in their right mind would offer a mid 1st round pick for him now?
Turris would have never cost anybody a 2nd round pick because Phoenix would have just matched the offer.

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11-23-2011, 12:12 PM
  #235
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Turris is not comming to Montreal !

But i would take Carter if we could get our hands on him !!! 30 goals a year....avg.

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11-23-2011, 12:20 PM
  #236
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Turris is not comming to Montreal !

But i would take Carter if we could get our hands on him !!! 30 goals a year....avg.
I wouldn't mind Carter, but IMHO he isn't worth his cost on the market.

Columbus paid Couturier and Voracek for him, so they'd want Pacioretty or Subban or some big name Habs player(Plekanec?) going the other way. Howson would look like an idiot trading him for half what he paid 5 months ago.

He's a good NHL player and 30-35 goal scorer, but he doesn't make linemates/teammates better. I wouldn't trade Plekanec for him straight up. Plus, I don't see Columbus moving him right now, they'll fire the coach and Gm before trading Carter IMHO.

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11-23-2011, 01:22 PM
  #237
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Sorry CP, i disagree ! Carter > Plekanecs.

Carter is stronger and has a much better shot than Pleks. I don't know how much you have seen of Carter ( during his Philly stint ), but Philly is my second favorite team, and i would take him straight up for Pleks.

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11-23-2011, 01:43 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Turris would have never cost anybody a 2nd round pick because Phoenix would have just matched the offer.
I disagree with you, Phoenix wants no part of Turris, the bigger contract he signs, the less he fetches in a trade.

So if a team offered Turris a 1 year deal at $3 million (2nd round pick as comp), Phoenix would let him walk, since he would be hard to trade.

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11-23-2011, 02:30 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Sorry CP, i disagree ! Carter > Plekanecs.

Carter is stronger and has a much better shot than Pleks. I don't know how much you have seen of Carter ( during his Philly stint ), but Philly is my second favorite team, and i would take him straight up for Pleks.
Plekanec is a lot grittier than Carter and build much stronger(stoicky vs tall and lean). If there is something my friends that are Phillie fans tell me about Carter it's that he plays very small for a 6'3" guy. They are almost the same weight(around 200lbs) and Carter is 4-5 inches taller.

Carter has a better shot and is a better finisher(30-35 goals/year vs 25-30/year) but Plekanec is a better playmaker, makes linemates better and is a much better all round player(defensively and on PK) which more than offsets Carter's goal scoring.

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11-23-2011, 02:31 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Sorry CP, i disagree ! Carter > Plekanecs.

Carter is softer and has a much better shot than Pleks. I don't know how much you have seen of Carter ( during his Philly stint ), but Philly is my second favorite team, and i would take him straight up for Pleks.
fixed.

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Old
11-23-2011, 02:34 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
I disagree with you, Phoenix wants no part of Turris, the bigger contract he signs, the less he fetches in a trade.

So if a team offered Turris a 1 year deal at $3 million (2nd round pick as comp), Phoenix would let him walk, since he would be hard to trade.
I don't think he would be hard to trade at 1 year 3 mil, unless it's to a cap strapped team. A team Like Florida would probably trade you a veteran for a guy like that and his long term upside.

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11-23-2011, 02:35 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Plekanec is a lot grittier than Carter and build much stronger(stoicky vs tall and lean). If there is something my friends that are Phillie fans tell me about Carter it's that he plays very small for a 6'3" guy. They are almost the same weight(around 200lbs) and Carter is 4-5 inches taller.

Carter has a better shot and is a better finisher(30-35 goals/year vs 25-30/year) but Plekanec is a better playmaker, makes linemates better and is a much better all round player(defensively and on PK) which more than offsets Carter's goal scoring.
We need a finisher. I hope thats obvious to you.

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11-23-2011, 02:35 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
fixed.
Great contribution. !

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Old
11-23-2011, 02:40 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
We need a finisher. I hope thats obvious to you.
...and Who then plays against top lines and on the PK to replace Plekanec?

It also hurts guys like Cammalleri who need a playmaking center, not a shoot first type.

We are not lacking in finishers...Gionta Cammy AK Cole Pacioretty, we need to get them the puck more in scoring position...obviously having a healthy Markov will help with that PP and 5 on 5.

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11-23-2011, 02:42 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
...and Who then plays against top lines and on the PK to replace Plekanec?

It also hurts guys like Cammalleri who need a playmaking center, not a shoot first type.

We are not lacking in finishers...Gionta Cammy AK Cole Pacioretty, we need to get them the puck more in scoring position...obviously having a healthy Markov will help with that PP and 5 on 5.
Oh please i am not going to take this any further with you, because obviously you have some rose colored glasses on. Go look and see how many goals we scored last year and so far this year.

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11-23-2011, 02:45 PM
  #246
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With the stories I've heard about Carter's attitude. Plus his salary. Plus knowing what we'd have to give for him.. I think it would be safe for the Habs to not bother.

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11-23-2011, 02:51 PM
  #247
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With the stories I've heard about Carter's attitude. Plus his salary. Plus knowing what we'd have to give for him.. I think it would be safe for the Habs to not bother.
We know nothing about this. Hell no why would the Habs need a pure goal scorer ? There was alot said about Ribiero's attitude, but look how that turned out for Dallas, and Ryder etc etc etc.

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11-23-2011, 02:55 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
We know nothing about this. Hell no why would the Habs need a pure goal scorer ? There was alot said about Ribiero's attitude, but look how that turned out for Dallas, and Ryder etc etc etc.
My biggest worry has to do with how much would we have to give up. Will it just solve one problem and open another?

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11-23-2011, 02:55 PM
  #249
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With the stories I've heard about Carter's attitude. Plus his salary. Plus knowing what we'd have to give for him.. I think it would be safe for the Habs to not bother.
that's the biggest part...

Carter's attitude/behavior issues are less of a concern imo. As a junior, he was considered a good leader/good attitude, he didn't handle the transition to big $$ and big adulation as a pro, but that's not so uncommon for a 20 year old thrust into the spotlight and wealth.

Yzerman, who became one of the better leaders in the game, wasn't much different... in his early years he put up crazy points, but his reputation wasn't nearly what it eventually became.

I think Carter will "mature" into a strong leader as time goes by. The trade to CBJ, and his struggles with them should help with that process.

BUT, given what he'd cost to get, hard to envision a trade for him that would make sense on our part.

Especially with Pleks/Eller/DD as a very solid top-9 C trio for the next few years.

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11-23-2011, 02:58 PM
  #250
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I don't know anything about Carter's attitude, but I have seen him play quite a few times. To me he looks like another Erik Cole but better. Same dominant style, drives the net but better finish. The one knock on him is his production seems to taper off in the playoffs.

But personally I think you'd have to be crazy not to want him on your team unless those attitude problems are really significant.

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