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The underrated value of Josh Gorges to the Montreal Canadiens

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Old
11-23-2011, 11:59 PM
  #51
Habaneros
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Originally Posted by Toro View Post
It amazes me how ppl forget what Markov brings to the table. He has some bad luck for a couple seasons and everyones on his case calling him frail and injuryprone etc.

With the depth we have at D and the return of a guy like Markov will no doubt push the Habs into the middle of the playoff teams or better.
does anyone remember how when the Habs got Markov to quaterback the powerplay as a shooter, it failed.

Markov we can call it what we like , unlucky, so was Souray .

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11-24-2011, 12:39 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
MONTREAL - Josh Gorges(notes) said he’s disappointed the Canadiens didn’t see fit to give him a multi-year contract, but he can understand the team’s decision.

“When I stepped back and I look at it from the team’s point of view, I realized that it was a business decision,” said Gorges, who avoided arbitration Friday when he agreed to a one-year deal worth $2.5 million U.S

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?...gaz-ca-5157054
-------------------------------------------




SO, Gauthier could have locked Josh in for what in the offseason?3.25-3.5 million 5 years?
Now we're into a real BAD situation , where JOSH can walk end of year to highest bidder.......and he too can say "I realized that it was a business decision".The leverage is all in Josh Gorges court , he asked for what he wants, Habs balk , Josh walks .
For once I agree with you.

But it would have been a big gamble for the management to sign both Markov and Gorges for a long term deal after the surgery they just had.

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11-24-2011, 01:08 AM
  #53
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He's been the anchor on this defense a midst all these injuries on D. I always have a sense of security when he's on the ice. If he had more of an offensive flare to his game, he would be a star.

I consider him to be one of the essential core players on this team. I'll be sad if the habs cant bring him back, but I know of 29 other teams that would love to have him.

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Old
11-24-2011, 01:12 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
For once I agree with you.

But it would have been a big gamble for the management to sign both Markov and Gorges for a long term deal after the surgery they just had.
It's all good mang


I just need to say on the "gamble"

Gorges 21 games
Markov 0



Bad asset management AGAIN ,and here we got Josh heading for a 30 pts season??? on a payday year.

This one will come back to snap us.If we're fighting for playoff spot or hanging onto one, they won't trade Josh.

Will get the same return we got for Souray/Komo /Mark Streit/Saku K etc etc etc ........


If they hang onto Josh, will overpay bigtime,when the guy wanted to sign a longer deal this past offseason for a fair amount less.

It won't surprise me to see a team offer him 5 million .


Last edited by Habaneros: 11-24-2011 at 01:19 AM.
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11-24-2011, 01:45 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
MONTREAL - Josh Gorges(notes) said he’s disappointed the Canadiens didn’t see fit to give him a multi-year contract, but he can understand the team’s decision.

“When I stepped back and I look at it from the team’s point of view, I realized that it was a business decision,” said Gorges, who avoided arbitration Friday when he agreed to a one-year deal worth $2.5 million U.S

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?...gaz-ca-5157054
-------------------------------------------




SO, Gauthier could have locked Josh in for what in the offseason?3.25-3.5 million 5 years?
Now we're into a real BAD situation , where JOSH can walk end of year to highest bidder.......and he too can say "I realized that it was a business decision".The leverage is all in Josh Gorges court , he asked for what he wants, Habs balk , Josh walks .


Gainey did the same with Plekanec, could have locked him into 3.5 million or less !!!!! then they ended up paying him 5 million a season ,for that one yr deal.

damn... I missed that comment... (actually, now that i think about it, i think i do remember being pissed about hearing or reading about that)



Habs "brain thrust" strikes again... terrible, terrible decision.

We can only hope that the Molson's are paying attention, and when JG either re-signs for a massive cap hit (4M+), or leaves town to sign elsewhere b/c we won't match his UFA value, they hold PG accountable for that blunder.

buy low, sell high, I don't think Gainey or Gauthier understand how important this concept is in a cap world.

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11-24-2011, 01:49 AM
  #56
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Is Gorges really underrated? Not by the fans, everyone loves the guy. He's become one of the most consistent defensive defensemen in the league and is useful in all situations. Not by the coaching staff either, considering how he's used.

Maybe by the management for not locking him in long term, we'll see if that can be remedied.

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Old
11-24-2011, 07:22 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
damn... I missed that comment... (actually, now that i think about it, i think i do remember being pissed about hearing or reading about that)



Habs "brain thrust" strikes again... terrible, terrible decision.

We can only hope that the Molson's are paying attention, and when JG either re-signs for a massive cap hit (4M+), or leaves town to sign elsewhere b/c we won't match his UFA value, they hold PG accountable for that blunder.

buy low, sell high, I don't think Gainey or Gauthier understand how important this concept is in a cap world.

This is turning into Souray every point Josh gets ,like a bad re run .





After Gainey signed Markov , Gainey said this on the pending UFA Souray.



GM Bob Gainey has said, however that his "priority will be Sheldon Souray,” adding “I expect to have talks with Sheldon’s agent in the coming days.”



Here is what Souray said and notice that BUSINESS WORD.


''We have lots of time. There's three months before anything has to be done. Montreal has been really good and I hope our relationship continues. I love Montreal. It's a challenge, but I enjoy playing here. But it's a business and we'll see what happens.''

Souray set an NHL record for defencemen with 19 power-play goals, helping the Canadiens post the league's best success rate with the man advantage.

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11-24-2011, 08:00 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Beaker View Post
Not to be blunt... but that would make you an idiot.

To be more polite...well...

I take it you're not very old. You seem to make hasty, irrational decisions. When you age a little, hopefully you'll get to see a dynasty/Stanley Cup winning team, and when you do- you'll begin to appreciate things. Little things like winning, natural talent, and craftsmanship with the puck. You'll appreciate their vision, heart, and likely even stuff the all-star ballot with that player's name. Until then, continue to choose #3-4, 2nd pairing defencemen over Markov-type players- after all, we have an underrated thread for an overrated player, that's HF Boards' way. Just know that one day, and that day will come, you'll appreciate a finesse play that only a smart hockey mind could make... and you'll think of me, Beaker.

When Gorges puts up 60+ points in a season, all the while being an defensive juggernaut, eating big minutes and facing top opposition... we can continue this discussion.

At 42 I dare say I am not YOUNG. I see more Serge Savard in JG than I see Big Bird in Markov I like Big Bird but prefer Savard on my blueline. I am about a steady presence on the back end not flashy I don't care about that. JG is a steady calming presence on the backend where AM still likes to jump into the rush at ill advised times I look at intangibles not flash or how many PP points he gets look at it as you wish but I prefer a defensive rock on the back end that still eats up minutes as you like to point out in 5 on 5 and PK roles as we seem to always be the top or close to the top in penalties every season.

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11-24-2011, 09:29 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
At 42 I dare say I am not YOUNG. I see more Serge Savard in JG than I see Big Bird in Markov I like Big Bird but prefer Savard on my blueline. I am about a steady presence on the back end not flashy I don't care about that. JG is a steady calming presence on the backend where AM still likes to jump into the rush at ill advised times I look at intangibles not flash or how many PP points he gets look at it as you wish but I prefer a defensive rock on the back end that still eats up minutes as you like to point out in 5 on 5 and PK roles as we seem to always be the top or close to the top in penalties every season.
Well then maybe hockey isn't your sport, old chap. You want intangibles? Andrei Markov is the definition of intangibles, a home grown talent, became a Canadian citizen for this team, a silent leader and a damn persistent hard worker. When he gets back, and becomes the spark this team needs to win, ask me how laughable his 5.75M$ salary is.

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11-24-2011, 09:41 AM
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Well then maybe hockey isn't your sport, old chap. You want intangibles? Andrei Markov is the definition of intangibles, a home grown talent, became a Canadian citizen for this team, a silent leader and a damn persistent hard worker. When he gets back, and becomes the spark this team needs to win, ask me how laughable his 5.75M$ salary is.
LOL your post is pretty laughable actually HOCKEY is the only sport nothing else compares. I have been following this team for 40 years. I have watched some of the greatest D men and skaters play this game and honestly my preference is a great defensive stalwart on the blueline like Serge Savard who Gorges reminds me of. Bring on that post if it happens I am of the camp that sees him injured again and back on LTIR.

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11-24-2011, 09:45 AM
  #61
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Guys, stop comparing apples and oranges, don't compare Gorges to an offensive defenseman, he's not one! I like Markov, but not on a three-year contract at $5.75 M/year. I really think it was a very bad business decision by Gauthier. Now he must sign Gorges long-term during the season; otherwise Gorges will test free-agency if he doesn't have a contract at the draft!

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11-24-2011, 10:00 AM
  #62
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3 years 10m (3 - 3.5 - 3.5)

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Old
11-24-2011, 10:20 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
Guys, stop comparing apples and oranges, don't compare Gorges to an offensive defenseman, he's not one! I like Markov, but not on a three-year contract at $5.75 M/year. I really think it was a very bad business decision by Gauthier. Now he must sign Gorges long-term during the season; otherwise Gorges will test free-agency if he doesn't have a contract at the draft!
He is currently on pace for ...........***drum roll****........ 32 POINTS.


Bad year for Gauthier at the CASH registrar....

Good year for JG to max his value as a UFA.


Will the Gauthier pay?

Or will he make fans pay for his mistake?

Does KELOWNA CALL?

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11-24-2011, 10:37 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
This is turning into Souray every point Josh gets ,like a bad re run .





After Gainey signed Markov , Gainey said this on the pending UFA Souray.



GM Bob Gainey has said, however that his "priority will be Sheldon Souray,” adding “I expect to have talks with Sheldon’s agent in the coming days.”



Here is what Souray said and notice that BUSINESS WORD.


''We have lots of time. There's three months before anything has to be done. Montreal has been really good and I hope our relationship continues. I love Montreal. It's a challenge, but I enjoy playing here. But it's a business and we'll see what happens.''

Souray set an NHL record for defencemen with 19 power-play goals, helping the Canadiens post the league's best success rate with the man advantage.
yup...

what people sometimes fail to realize is that athletes are regular people as well... just very highly compensated ones.

While maxizing their earning potential is a major driving force in decision making, their perception of self-worth and how an organization either validates or undermines this, plays a major role as well.

A team that delays signing a guy to an extension, or shows little faith or trust by signing 1-year RFA deals vs. committing long-term, sends a clear message of how much they value the individual and his contributions.

when you feel like your employer values you, and shows faith in you, the likelihood of being willing to "make it work" and agreeing to a contract that is mutually beneficial (as opposed to demanding "fair market" value) increases dramatically.

some organizations get this, and thus manage to get UFA destined players to sign favorable deals relatively regularly.

others, like us, drop the ball in this department, and the end result is what we see in our roster today... a group of veterans that almost to a man are paid at the very high end of what they are worth (and that's an understatement, most of our vets are definitely overpaid compared to their contributions).

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11-24-2011, 11:36 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
He's been the anchor on this defense a midst all these injuries on D. I always have a sense of security when he's on the ice. If he had more of an offensive flare to his game, he would be a star.

I consider him to be one of the essential core players on this team. I'll be sad if the habs cant bring him back, but I know of 29 other teams that would love to have him.
That pretty much sums up how I feel about his game so far this season.

In 22 games, he's got 1 goal (game-winner), 9 assists, a team leading +10 (good for 17th in the league currently), and 56 blocked shots (good for 2nd in the league).

Is it fair to call him a poor man's Ryan Suter?

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11-24-2011, 11:45 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
yup...

what people sometimes fail to realize is that athletes are regular people as well... just very highly compensated ones.

While maxizing their earning potential is a major driving force in decision making, their perception of self-worth and how an organization either validates or undermines this, plays a major role as well.

A team that delays signing a guy to an extension, or shows little faith or trust by signing 1-year RFA deals vs. committing long-term, sends a clear message of how much they value the individual and his contributions.

when you feel like your employer values you, and shows faith in you, the likelihood of being willing to "make it work" and agreeing to a contract that is mutually beneficial (as opposed to demanding "fair market" value) increases dramatically.

some organizations get this, and thus manage to get UFA destined players to sign favorable deals relatively regularly.

others, like us, drop the ball in this department, and the end result is what we see in our roster today... a group of veterans that almost to a man are paid at the very high end of what they are worth (and that's an understatement, most of our vets are definitely overpaid compared to their contributions).
LOL

they gotta learn by simply calling him "MR" Gorges it won't help .


I feel Josh felt let down , and maybe when it's time to "pledge the allegiance to the Canadiens flag soon, "MR" Gauthier will be wearing eggs on his face ,with fans close behind him, with a cast iron frying pan .


What "suks" for Habs fans is? Gauthier watched all the other one's walk away from Gainey.
He seen Souray run for 1.25 million more , Komo run for 500,000 k more....Streit run for 2 million more....Saku for free etc etc ....

Now he let Josh get in the same boat.....

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