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Old
11-24-2011, 08:24 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
They said Subban plays like crap right now that is true. And they said Darche shouldn't be saying that to PK.

The fanboy-style has gotten out of hands in these boards. I swear these boards have become a kindergarden. You can't say one bad thing about a player, the
zealots come out of woodwork.
Pk did a incredible job agaisnt Skinner last night and he was great on the transition game

Sure he hung the puck way too long in the 3 rd . At least he tried to create something.

He had a good game last night.

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11-24-2011, 08:28 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I hope you are kidding. And even if you don't, why can't you google the term or open a dictionary?
Am I at work here? no need to answer that!

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Old
11-24-2011, 08:57 AM
  #28
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Subban is his absolute best when freestyling, mgmt shouldn't spend all their effort to control him like a robot

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11-24-2011, 09:09 AM
  #29
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Here's what Mitch Melnick posted in his blog with respect to the Subban bashing:

http://melnickblog.blogspot.com/

''THE UGLY

(...)

3.L'Antichambre ******** on PK Subban. What's going on here? The guy plays 25 minutes, helps shut down Jeff Skinner in two straight games against Carolina, helps set up a goal, continues to do terrific work on the PK unit yet all they do is dump on the guy. I thought Michel Bergeron's suggestion that the Habs should trade Subban was a flat out joke until Francois Gagnon reiterated the lunacy with Elliott Price & Shaun Starr on our morning show because, among other things, the "Canadiens can't find a strong centerman (Eric Staal)" and "Jarred Tinordi and Nathan Beaulieu (aren't that far away)". Now everybody can see that Subban is not the same offensive force (yet) as a year ago but it's important to keep in mind that you NEVER see him rush the puck unless the Habs are trailing in the third period or the game is in overtime. He's also not on the first power play unit - a unit that is hardly flourishing without him. Maybe, as @HeyMyNameIsWill suggested during the game after Subban again passed on an opportunity to fire the puck, his shoulder is still hurting him. Or maybe he's simply lost confidence with the puck because it appears his coach has. Or maybe it's all just part of a conscious effort to reel in his game with Markov and Jaro Spacek out - at least until Markov returns. But I do find it troubling that a reporter who is extremely close to the head coach is seriously questioning anything to do with Subban's game, let alone urging the Canadiens to trade him. Last time I checked, this second year defenseman was averaging more than two minutes more ice time per game than any of his teammates, while forming a terrific tandem with his new partner. A pairing that has so far combined for two goals and 16 assists in 44 games (also keep in mind that 9 of Subban's 14 goals a year ago came after the all star break). As for Gagnon's assertion that Tinordi and Beaulieu are up and comers? Get back to me when they're both logging 24 minutes of ice time at the NHL level. Last time I heard such nonsense, it came from Serge Savard who said one of the reasons he felt comfortable trading Chris Chelios for Denis Savard was that Mathieu Schneider was ready to step in and replace Chelios. If the Montreal Canadiens can't find that elusive big man down the middle then they have to work harder to acquire him. Not having Scott Gomez around would have made that job easier. (And don't count me among the group out there that believes it was necessary to acquire Gomez in order to sign Gionta & Cammalleri. My experience is always to follow the money. Both Cammalleri & Gionta got very healthy money and even healthier term.) How does an organization go from openly coveting Vincent Lecavalier to trading a top prospect and taking on one of the worst contracts in NHL history belonging to the complete opposite type player while at the same time freeing up enough cap space for that very same team to sign a dynamic offensive player (Marian Gaborik) and, eventually, the very essence of the debate we're having (Brad Richards)? And in case the gang at RDS haven't noticed, in today's NHL there's a premium on the kind of talented, strong, mobile defensemen that PK Subban is. Even more important, one might argue, then a big centerman. Think the Sabres are getting ready to trade Tyler Myers? Think the Kings are going to move Drew Doughty? Think the Flames don't realize they made a huge mistake in trading Dion Phaneuf? Think Chicago wins a cup without Duncan Keith? Everybody has a right to an opinion and if Bergeron/Gagnon are just being provocateurs I get it. But Francois Gagnon has publicly stated that he and Jacques Martin are good friends. He invites the kind of scrutiny that this Subban bashing has led to. If - that's IF - this sudden campaign to pick on Subban (while the team is playing better) and suggest Montreal would be better off without him is actually an idea spawned by the head coach, then Jacques Martin must go. Immediately. If it's Gagnon/Bergeron acting on a suggestion or two from a disgruntled player then I'd sure like to know who the player is and his value to the team. If they're just sprouting off then maybe they can pick on somebody else. Somebody who doesn't have 20,000 fans chanting his name every night.''

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Old
11-24-2011, 09:14 AM
  #30
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There is 1 point favoring the "trade Subban" idiocy.

O-defensemen are at a premium these days. Just look at the contracts Erhoff and Wiz got, look at the return of Souray. These types of players are in big demand and would yield quite a lot on the trading market.

Which is why I think we should trade Weber..

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Old
11-24-2011, 09:25 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conflicted Habs fan View Post
Subban is his absolute best when freestyling, mgmt shouldn't spend all their effort to control him like a robot
I don't think that's management here but rather a team system. With Markov out, Spacek out and to some extant, Campoli, he plays all the hard minutes so he need to be smart about it. I also notice that he is less explosive on his skate and this could be a small lingering injury...who knows.

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11-24-2011, 09:28 AM
  #32
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Maybe they should openly cheer on the Bruins to pummel the Habs instead.
Yeah - how's that going for him I wonder...

Some 'fans', eh?

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11-24-2011, 09:32 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
They said Subban plays like crap right now that is true. And they said Darche shouldn't be saying that to PK.

The fanboy-style has gotten out of hands in these boards. I swear these boards have become a kindergarden. You can't say one bad thing about a player, the zealots come out of woodwork.
Hmmm

I wonder how you would respond if they were criticizing the Weber and/or Diaz.

Fanboys - an unfortunate term, considering by definition you might be one yourself.

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Old
11-24-2011, 09:34 AM
  #34
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Only reason PK is getting any flak right now is because he's not producing as expected...but people don't realize the quality of his play in his own zone. How easily he shrugs guys off the puck and moves it up the ice quickly.

RDS needs to fold up all together...that's as bad a sports network as i've ever seen.

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Old
11-24-2011, 09:35 AM
  #35
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I love PK, he's probably my favorite hab but lets be real here, calling him our best D in general let alone by far isn't giving Josh Gorges any credit. He's been better than PK and has put up the same kind of numbers without the flash. Gorges keeps it simple but does so at a very high level. He is bar none our best Habs D this year. He's the best he's ever been in his career thus far. If he keeps it up he'll have a career year. Imagine if Gorges becomes more of a two-way D rather than stay at home? With his defensive skills? All I can say is I hope he keeps up the good work at both ends. Lately when we get goals Gorges is on the ice.

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Old
11-24-2011, 09:43 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
Here's what Mitch Melnick posted in his blog with respect to the Subban bashing:

http://melnickblog.blogspot.com/

''THE UGLY

(...)

3.L'Antichambre ******** on PK Subban. What's going on here? The guy plays 25 minutes, helps shut down Jeff Skinner in two straight games against Carolina, helps set up a goal, continues to do terrific work on the PK unit yet all they do is dump on the guy. I thought Michel Bergeron's suggestion that the Habs should trade Subban was a flat out joke until Francois Gagnon reiterated the lunacy with Elliott Price & Shaun Starr on our morning show because, among other things, the "Canadiens can't find a strong centerman (Eric Staal)" and "Jarred Tinordi and Nathan Beaulieu (aren't that far away)". Now everybody can see that Subban is not the same offensive force (yet) as a year ago but it's important to keep in mind that you NEVER see him rush the puck unless the Habs are trailing in the third period or the game is in overtime. He's also not on the first power play unit - a unit that is hardly flourishing without him. Maybe, as @HeyMyNameIsWill suggested during the game after Subban again passed on an opportunity to fire the puck, his shoulder is still hurting him. Or maybe he's simply lost confidence with the puck because it appears his coach has. Or maybe it's all just part of a conscious effort to reel in his game with Markov and Jaro Spacek out - at least until Markov returns. But I do find it troubling that a reporter who is extremely close to the head coach is seriously questioning anything to do with Subban's game, let alone urging the Canadiens to trade him. Last time I checked, this second year defenseman was averaging more than two minutes more ice time per game than any of his teammates, while forming a terrific tandem with his new partner. A pairing that has so far combined for two goals and 16 assists in 44 games (also keep in mind that 9 of Subban's 14 goals a year ago came after the all star break). As for Gagnon's assertion that Tinordi and Beaulieu are up and comers? Get back to me when they're both logging 24 minutes of ice time at the NHL level. Last time I heard such nonsense, it came from Serge Savard who said one of the reasons he felt comfortable trading Chris Chelios for Denis Savard was that Mathieu Schneider was ready to step in and replace Chelios. If the Montreal Canadiens can't find that elusive big man down the middle then they have to work harder to acquire him. Not having Scott Gomez around would have made that job easier. (And don't count me among the group out there that believes it was necessary to acquire Gomez in order to sign Gionta & Cammalleri. My experience is always to follow the money. Both Cammalleri & Gionta got very healthy money and even healthier term.) How does an organization go from openly coveting Vincent Lecavalier to trading a top prospect and taking on one of the worst contracts in NHL history belonging to the complete opposite type player while at the same time freeing up enough cap space for that very same team to sign a dynamic offensive player (Marian Gaborik) and, eventually, the very essence of the debate we're having (Brad Richards)? And in case the gang at RDS haven't noticed, in today's NHL there's a premium on the kind of talented, strong, mobile defensemen that PK Subban is. Even more important, one might argue, then a big centerman. Think the Sabres are getting ready to trade Tyler Myers? Think the Kings are going to move Drew Doughty? Think the Flames don't realize they made a huge mistake in trading Dion Phaneuf? Think Chicago wins a cup without Duncan Keith? Everybody has a right to an opinion and if Bergeron/Gagnon are just being provocateurs I get it. But Francois Gagnon has publicly stated that he and Jacques Martin are good friends. He invites the kind of scrutiny that this Subban bashing has led to. If - that's IF - this sudden campaign to pick on Subban (while the team is playing better) and suggest Montreal would be better off without him is actually an idea spawned by the head coach, then Jacques Martin must go. Immediately. If it's Gagnon/Bergeron acting on a suggestion or two from a disgruntled player then I'd sure like to know who the player is and his value to the team. If they're just sprouting off then maybe they can pick on somebody else. Somebody who doesn't have 20,000 fans chanting his name every night.''
Melnick is the voice of reason in Montreal! I don't know how his french is but I would love to see him on AC and put all those morons in their place

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Old
11-24-2011, 09:51 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I love PK, he's probably my favorite hab but lets be real here, calling him our best D in general let alone by far isn't giving Josh Gorges any credit. He's been better than PK and has put up the same kind of numbers without the flash. Gorges keeps it simple but does so at a very high level. He is bar none our best Habs D this year. He's the best he's ever been in his career thus far. If he keeps it up he'll have a career year. Imagine if Gorges becomes more of a two-way D rather than stay at home? With his defensive skills? All I can say is I hope he keeps up the good work at both ends. Lately when we get goals Gorges is on the ice.
I have to agree with this. If we are talkng DEFENCE, I would go with Georges in a heart beat.

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11-24-2011, 10:09 AM
  #38
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I have to agree with this. If we are talkng DEFENCE, I would go with Georges in a heart beat.
Gorges is probably better in his own zone at this point, but PK's still got alot of room to grow and when you couple his ability to play on the offensive end...I don't think there's another dman on the Habs, other than a healthy Markov, that combines the-all around ability that PK has.

You can throw PK out there in ANY situation against anyone...as good as Gorges is in his own end, I don't think you can say that about him

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Old
11-24-2011, 10:47 AM
  #39
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Gorges is probably better in his own zone at this point, but PK's still got alot of room to grow and when you couple his ability to play on the offensive end...I don't think there's another dman on the Habs, other than a healthy Markov, that combines the-all around ability that PK has.

You can throw PK out there in ANY situation against anyone...as good as Gorges is in his own end, I don't think you can say that about him
I agree with this as well, however I did emphasize on the word DEFENSE. If we are only talking defense, Georges takes it. If its all around ability, then I do give it to P.K.

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Old
11-24-2011, 10:51 AM
  #40
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Ok, this might sound pretty stupid, or very much like a "fan boy" as someone eluded to above, and even if Darche had a point, I still feel like he should shut it

He's never even dreamt of having the skill PK has on his worst day. So wheteher PK should have passed the puck or not, I don't like him screaming at our young, defensive gun. I hope to see PK wearing a Habs jersey long after Darche is gone

I found a few instances last night that PK was holding the puck too long on the blue line though. A few times the puck would come to him and I was screaming at the TV for him to shoot. And he just held it long enough for a Carolina foward to get close enough to force him to dump it in the corner. Let er rip PK!

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Old
11-24-2011, 10:54 AM
  #41
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It will never happen but if PG trade Subban he's a idiot and become The worst GM of league

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Old
11-24-2011, 04:41 PM
  #42
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I miss the rookie pk who was all confidence, could spin around anyone and rush the ice like very few defenceman can. We all know he can do it and create something offensively, he's better than markov in that aspect.... How many times did we see him make end to end rush this year? He's clearly been told to keep it simple and easy, which is obviously no HIS game. The last thing i wanted when he came on this team was a coach with plans to change the way he plays. He's the defensman we've been waiting for years, he got the swagga to be one of the best in the game. He was the best PP QB scorer last year, now he only plays about 30 second on the second PP wave.... way to give him confidence! Plus is it me or we don't have any play based on a rush from pk? Seems like all the players look at him with no idea where to go, they are clueless on what he's gonna do.

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Old
11-24-2011, 05:11 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I love PK, he's probably my favorite hab but lets be real here, calling him our best D in general let alone by far isn't giving Josh Gorges any credit. He's been better than PK and has put up the same kind of numbers without the flash. Gorges keeps it simple but does so at a very high level. He is bar none our best Habs D this year. He's the best he's ever been in his career thus far. If he keeps it up he'll have a career year. Imagine if Gorges becomes more of a two-way D rather than stay at home? With his defensive skills? All I can say is I hope he keeps up the good work at both ends. Lately when we get goals Gorges is on the ice.
I don't think calling Subban our best d-man is in any way discrediting Gorges. They've been playing similar hockey thus far this season, which varied from average to great, mostly the latter. This is a gift and a curse because they're our best defensemen at the moment and they play together. Solid pairing still.

Anyway, my point here (and it has been brought up before) is that Gorges is playing at his best right now while Subban, while playing close to as well as Gorges, is being criticized. I think Gorges could do even better offensively, but I'm not sure he ever will. Subban is playing awesome hockey despite a certain lack of production and a few untimely mistakes but he can do much better.

Has Subban been our best d-man since the season started? I don't think so, Gorges has been a bit better. However, Subban is our best defenseman (apart from Markov, but who knows really with all the time he missed) going forward and even now because of what he brings and his potential.

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Old
11-24-2011, 05:34 PM
  #44
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Only reason PK is getting any flak right now is because he's not producing as expected...but people don't realize the quality of his play in his own zone. How easily he shrugs guys off the puck and moves it up the ice quickly.

RDS needs to fold up all together...that's as bad a sports network as i've ever seen.
That is what baffles me the most. These guys are ex coaches, players and reporters that have been around hockey forever. Yet, they still seem unable to recognize any good defensive play. It is scary to think these are the guys the young hockey fans of this city are listening too. Absolute garbage.

And yea, rds is about as poor a sports channel can be.

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11-24-2011, 05:40 PM
  #45
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That is what baffles me the most. These guys are ex coaches, players and reporters that have been around hockey forever. Yet, they still seem unable to recognize any good defensive play. It is scary to think these are the guys the young hockey fans of this city are listening too. Absolute garbage.

And yea, rds is about as poor a sports channel can be.
They probably want to trade Subban for Letang.

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Old
11-24-2011, 05:45 PM
  #46
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I think people forget just how "bad" or how much of a project Subban was just two years before his NHL draft year. His development has been absolutely ridiculous. I doubt he's anywhere near his plateau.

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Old
11-24-2011, 06:00 PM
  #47
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Ok, this might sound pretty stupid, or very much like a "fan boy" as someone eluded to above, and even if Darche had a point, I still feel like he should shut it

He's never even dreamt of having the skill PK has on his worst day. So wheteher PK should have passed the puck or not, I don't like him screaming at our young, defensive gun. I hope to see PK wearing a Habs jersey long after Darche is gone

I found a few instances last night that PK was holding the puck too long on the blue line though. A few times the puck would come to him and I was screaming at the TV for him to shoot. And he just held it long enough for a Carolina foward to get close enough to force him to dump it in the corner. Let er rip PK!
I don't get why people are treating this like Darche is being mean to Subban. One of Darches roles on this team is to be a mentor to the younger players, since the only reason he's in the NHL to begin with is through hard work and intelligence. You are constantly seeing him talk to other players on the bench. You don't have to be a good hockey player to be a good hockey mind (see Darche's fellow McGill grads Boucher and Babcock). Darche has the right to yell at him when Subban makes a poor decision, I don't think Subban is immature enough to take it personally.

Remember how Hal Gill lost it when Subban threw his equipment in the locker room last year? The media tried to make a big deal out of it when it was just a veteran teaching a younger player how to behave.

It's really not fair to Darche to make accusations that he's jealous or something. Darche hasn't been very effective this year and he should sit on the bench more when White comes back, but part of the reasons we have players like him and Gill on this team is to be on ice coaches.

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11-24-2011, 06:06 PM
  #48
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That is what baffles me the most. These guys are ex coaches, players and reporters that have been around hockey forever. Yet, they still seem unable to recognize any good defensive play. It is scary to think these are the guys the young hockey fans of this city are listening too. Absolute garbage.

And yea, rds is about as poor a sports channel can be.
The ex-coaches are now, obviously, in the business of $$$$.

They have now become media 'sensations'.

They make their $$$$ through ratings when people talk about them. Boring = no job.

They bash PK and the whole fanbase talks about RDS and AC... thus increasing the ratings and bringing in more $$$$.

By writing this post, I am being sucked into their media vortex.

I tried to resist.

Love ya, PK!

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11-24-2011, 06:30 PM
  #49
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Bergeron and Gagnon are as ******** as they come.

One is an ex-nordics coach and the other is an ex beat writer for both the nordics and Sens.

You don't build by trading players like Subban, you build by keeping them.

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11-24-2011, 06:40 PM
  #50
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Gorges is, right now, a #2 that can play goalie in a pinch. It's Gorges' breakout season. Then again he isn't nearly as flashy a hitter as Subban.

If Markov ever came back into play Markov would still play as a #1. Subban, however, would be a #1 on a good number of teams right now.

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