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David Poile: Love him? Hate him? Talk Here

View Poll Results: How do you feel about Poile?
He Should Stay 16 76.19%
Needs To Go 1 4.76%
Bittersweet 2 9.52%
Indifferent 2 9.52%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-24-2011, 04:53 PM
  #26
gopreds19
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
In the past 10 years, Poile has drafted exactly 1 'smurf' defenseman and 2 grinding, lunchpail types in the first 2 rounds.

Sure, you don't need a budget to draft, but you DO need a budget to eventually fit all those players under contract, unless you're content to see those young, skilled players fly off for nothing in free agency every year. Shoot, look at how much 25 pt Joel Ward (ok, ok, 30) was asking for this off-season!
Don forget the goalies (3). Blum is a big smurf.

And I think you'd agree that you'd rather have Eberle and the opportunity to resign him in about 3 years than drafting another Pikard, "cause man, Eberle, he's gonna want a bunch a money one day. I'd dont think we should pay any youngsters who put the puck in the bet. I'd rather have a farm full of giant goalies."

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11-24-2011, 04:59 PM
  #27
ThirdManIn
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Pickard does seem like he is going to be a bust. I wonder how Columbus fans are feeling after drafting Filatov over Wilson, Hodgson, Bailey, Myers, Boedker, Sbisa, and Eberle.

Poile got his forward in the first round of that draft. It was time to move on to another need.

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11-24-2011, 05:47 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Pickard does seem like he is going to be a bust. I wonder how Columbus fans are feeling after drafting Filatov over Wilson, Hodgson, Bailey, Myers, Boedker, Sbisa, and Eberle.
Sbisa was drafted with the pick we traded to get Umberger. If we hadn't traded for Umby, he's who I wanted at that pick. Take one damn guess.
(OTOH, Umby is love, even if he is having an asstastic year right now.)

Kvetching about draft hindsight is generally verboten in CBJ land, because there are so many examples that we've actually gone through that period of actualization wherein we realize that sometimes Scouting Doesn't Work Properly.

I mean, seriously, Filatov for Meyers (or anyone else there, altho Meyers is the popular kvetch pick like Eberle is here)? Doesn't hold a candle to Brule for Kopitar (also a candidate for Most Perverse Revisionist History Argument EVAR) or trading our '04 pick (used on Andrew Ladd) down to select Alexandre Picard (the AHL forward, not the defenseman).

And 2003? Don't even get anyone started on the legend of how MacLean overruled his own scouting staff on the Zherdev pick - supposedly they wanted this kid named Phaneuf. And then there was our second round pick that year, used on Fritsche (who's in the Swiss League now). Sometimes folks like to point out the two guys who were drafted three picks after both of those - respectively, Ryan Suter and Shea Weber.

Huh. How 'bout that.

Regrets don't work, y'all.

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11-24-2011, 11:40 PM
  #29
gopreds19
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Pickard does seem like he is going to be a bust. I wonder how Columbus fans are feeling after drafting Filatov over Wilson, Hodgson, Bailey, Myers, Boedker, Sbisa, and Eberle.

Poile got his forward in the first round of that draft. It was time to move on to another need.
So we're not as bad as Failumbus, gotcha, that's nice. Just because we drafted 1 forward doesn't mean he shouldn't have gone after another. When Poile has gotten his "defenseman", it hasn't stopped him from picking up others time after time.

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11-25-2011, 12:18 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Don forget the goalies (3). Blum is a big smurf.

And I think you'd agree that you'd rather have Eberle and the opportunity to resign him in about 3 years than drafting another Pikard, "cause man, Eberle, he's gonna want a bunch a money one day. I'd dont think we should pay any youngsters who put the puck in the bet. I'd rather have a farm full of giant goalies."
Sure. As of right now, I would have taken Eberle over Pickard. We also have the luxury of witnessing 4 years of development, the knowledge that we have a stud goaltender locked up long term, and the impression (thus far) that Eberle's size will not be a hindrance to him at the NHL level. Not having those goalies probably would have bit us in the ass had Rinne not become such a monster, or not been locked up long term though. <shrug> We're all great GMs in hindsight.

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11-25-2011, 12:38 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I mean, seriously, Filatov for Meyers (or anyone else there, altho Meyers is the popular kvetch pick like Eberle is here)? Doesn't hold a candle to Brule for Kopitar (also a candidate for Most Perverse Revisionist History Argument EVAR) or trading our '04 pick (used on Andrew Ladd) down to select Alexandre Picard (the AHL forward, not the defenseman).
Every team has THAT pick, and it's ALWAYS the guy that would fill that one need the team never seems to fill. For the Kings (speaking of teams who draft defensemen and goalies), it was always the '03 draft. Could have had Getzlaf, Perry and Weber...instead got Brown, Boyle and Tambellini. It always stung that much more that the cross-town rivals got 2 of those 3 instead, and then went on to win a cup. That Kopitar fell to them in '05, and that he became the incredible player he is, was a boon. But man, you want to see some talk about draft and prospect busts, lol...

You don't see too much of that talk anymore, as Lombardi has managed to bring in some pretty solid offensive pieces, (and the team STILL can't score goals), but there still tends to be more than a little *****ing about Lombardi's preference for D-men.

In defense to your GM, that '04 draft was AWFUL, looking back now. Ugh.

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11-25-2011, 02:54 AM
  #32
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I just have to admit, as a fan of a team that always drafts forwards in large numbers but doesn't pick up enough defensemen and goaltenders (or at least historically didn't, leading to ongoing suffering on the blueline), watching folks who are fans of teams that DO draft those areas well kvetch about having such players is always equal parts amusing and depressing.

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Old
11-25-2011, 08:04 AM
  #33
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Being on a budget requires Poile to be safe. He doesn't have the luxury of fixing his drafting mistakes via free agency. I'd rather be safe and have a team that is consistent for the most part. Sure we have our ups and downs but they are not drastic either way. We have possibly the best goalie in the league and the top pairing defensively, all thru the draft. I can't think of any other team that has that combo.

Has he been stellar in drafting forwards, not great but not bad either. How many of our forwards this year and last were our own picks, over half? GM's are not always going to be perfect. Considering his financial restraints over the years, I'd say he's done a pretty good job. Now that the owners are opening their purse strings a little bit, he's making sure some of the great pieces we have here are staying around.

I also have to give him credit for holding on to Trotz. While I would've let him go years ago, the consistency factor of having the same coach is what gives us the results on the ice. Most GM's have an itchy trigger finger when it comes to keeping or firing coaches. It lets the players know, the coach is here, adapt to his game or be gone and the guys really buy into the system.

Are we a sexy franchise, probably not but we are one of the most consistent and stable franchises around. A lot of fan bases and media outlets praise what we do and there is a reason for that, Poile has done it the right way. Imagine if he had a budget with the players we already have.

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11-25-2011, 09:31 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
So we're not as bad as Failumbus, gotcha, that's nice. Just because we drafted 1 forward doesn't mean he shouldn't have gone after another. When Poile has gotten his "defenseman", it hasn't stopped him from picking up others time after time.
The point was that every team can complain about every draft. It's the nature of the beast, my friend. What you have to take from a draft are a few successes. Otherwise, you continue to dwell on the near misses for eternity. We drafted Wilson. We drafted Josi. We drafted Lindback. That's successful for a single, not-so-deep draft.

I mean, we could trade Weber and Suter to draft Nail, right? Should we? Probably not. You cannot draft continually for a single position. What happens if Poile drafts forwards because our forward corps, as of right now, is not so potent? What if our defense begins to suck? We become the Islanders. Or Edmonton every year since 2005 (until this year). Or Anaheim.

When you draft you think about future needs, not immediate concerns. If you draft for immediate concerns your team ends up in the toilet. Future needs at the time? A power forward. Wilson. A goalie of the future. Pickard (probably bust). A two-way defenseman. Josi. Etc.

Eberle is good, but he is young. There is no proof that he can produce like he does on a team like ours. You really cannot successfully use him in an argument.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 11-25-2011 at 09:36 AM.
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11-25-2011, 08:53 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
The point was that every team can complain about every draft. It's the nature of the beast, my friend. What you have to take from a draft are a few successes. Otherwise, you continue to dwell on the near misses for eternity. We drafted Wilson. We drafted Josi. We drafted Lindback. That's successful for a single, not-so-deep draft.

I mean, we could trade Weber and Suter to draft Nail, right? Should we? Probably not. You cannot draft continually for a single position. What happens if Poile drafts forwards because our forward corps, as of right now, is not so potent? What if our defense begins to suck? We become the Islanders. Or Edmonton every year since 2005 (until this year). Or Anaheim.

When you draft you think about future needs, not immediate concerns. If you draft for immediate concerns your team ends up in the toilet. Future needs at the time? A power forward. Wilson. A goalie of the future. Pickard (probably bust). A two-way defenseman. Josi. Etc.

Eberle is good, but he is young. There is no proof that he can produce like he does on a team like ours. You really cannot successfully use him in an argument.
I'd argue Lindback and Josi are more unproven than Eberle, so you can't successfully use them in an argument either.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 11-26-2011 at 09:12 AM. Reason: unnecessary
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Old
11-25-2011, 09:12 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
I'd argue Lindback and Josi are more unproven than Eberle, so you can't successfully use them in an argument either.
The problem is that you get regrets like that with every freakin' draft. I can assure you that there's quite a few teams that wished they hadn't passed on Jeff Skinner, also - to name a more recent example.

Could Eberle be useful on the Preds? Probably. Is it assured? Not really. Is the failure to draft him something that reflects poorly on Poile? Hardly.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 11-26-2011 at 09:12 AM. Reason: edited quote
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Old
11-25-2011, 09:40 PM
  #37
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I have an idea. rather than put poile against himself here, let's play a game. David Poile vs. the NHL. We need a agreement on what Poile's 5? best and worst moves over the last 5 years and compare it to other GMs around the league and their best and worst over the past 5 years.

I would argue that Poile's best moves (and goes back to the 2007 draft) in no order..

trading for sk for so little
not trading blum or wilson for kessel.
trading arnott for hellberg and halischuk
keeping trotz
the vokoun deal netting wilson and spaling

5 worst, and hindsight is 20/20
drafting pickard (we traded picks with ottawa and that is where they got karlsson)
Dumont's extension
Lombardi's contract
not getting anything for peverly
giving a pick for grebeshkov


I figure I would let Poile gain some wins and momentum by putting him up against the bottom feeders first. So first up, David Poile vs Calgary GM-Jay Feaster/Darryl Sutter.

so we need the 5 best Calgary moves and Worst. I will submit keeping sutter on the worst list and getting J-Bo when he was a FA to be.

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11-25-2011, 11:56 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I have an idea. rather than put poile against himself here, let's play a game. David Poile vs. the NHL. We need a agreement on what Poile's 5? best and worst moves over the last 5 years and compare it to other GMs around the league and their best and worst over the past 5 years.

I would argue that Poile's best moves (and goes back to the 2007 draft) in no order..

trading for sk for so little
not trading blum or wilson for kessel.
trading arnott for hellberg and halischuk
keeping trotz
the vokoun deal netting wilson and spaling

5 worst, and hindsight is 20/20
drafting pickard (we traded picks with ottawa and that is where they got karlsson)
Dumont's extension
Lombardi's contract
not getting anything for peverly
giving a pick for grebeshkov


I figure I would let Poile gain some wins and momentum by putting him up against the bottom feeders first. So first up, David Poile vs Calgary GM-Jay Feaster/Darryl Sutter.

so we need the 5 best Calgary moves and Worst. I will submit keeping sutter on the worst list and getting J-Bo when he was a FA to be.
I disagree that the Kessel deal is on the best moves list. There's not a sensible person on this board that wouldn't trade Blum or Wilson for a kid who is not much older than either and is far out in front in the league's scoring race. I'd put down falling 750k short of Kessel's asking price a major failure, actually.

I also don't consider trading for Grebs a bad move. When healthy, he looked incredible and actually made our PP look dangerous for the first time since Zidlicky left. It's not Poile's fault he got a nut exploded.

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11-26-2011, 02:28 AM
  #39
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I disagree that the Kessel deal is on the best moves list. There's not a sensible person on this board that wouldn't trade Blum or Wilson for a kid who is not much older than either and is far out in front in the league's scoring race. I'd put down falling 750k short of Kessel's asking price a major failure, actually.
There's no way of knowing for sure, but it is very possible that Kessel at $5.4M would have already led to the dealing of one of Suter, Weber or Rinne. Going forward, and the promises from ownership in terms of spending, it would have worked out, but there's no way Poile could have known that at the time.

Still not sure exactly how a player like Kessel would fit in the system we play though. Would be interesting to see.

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11-26-2011, 11:02 AM
  #40
ThirdManIn
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I'd argue Lindback and Josi are more unproven than Eberle, so you can't successfully use them in an argument either.
That's fair. I guess my point is anyone can look at any draft and say "well, we could have gotten X player who has done this, this, and this." Hindsight is a great thing to have, but by definition it doesn't exist until later on. I would venture to say that none of us would do better scouting or drafting players, and really anyone who would do better already has a job so it's difficult to replace the (great) team we already have in Nashville. Lindback was thrown into the fire last year when Rinne went down. Twice. For a goalie that had never played a game on NA ice he did a fantastic job. He is a very solid, young back up with the skills to be a #1 later. Josi is definitely unproven, but I guess we will see what he is made of (hopefully not glass) pretty soon. Eberle is a fine forward indeed. Do not forget that at the time of the draft he was a very small player, and still is really (though he has gained about 20 lbs). You were earlier bemoaning the drafting of smurfs. Is it ok to draft smurfs so long as they are skilled? Because it seems like Poile has done that a few times in his career.

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11-26-2011, 11:43 AM
  #41
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Not totally sure why it's a complaint that Josi is inexperienced. That's generally how one's career works. You work for your opportunity then when you finally get it you're inexperienced. No big deal.

As far as hindsight goes, I think fans as a whole are extremely quick to assume that the same things would happen in a different situation. Not the case at all. Let's say we draft Eberle and he gets injured twice and people are like "oh man what a fragile joke of a draft pick. We're at it again with our terrible drafting." What if Shea Weber was drafted by another team that hampered his progress and he was never able to evolve into the player he is today? What about Rinne getting picked by someone else and maybe he's still hanging around the AHL, or even Europe? Things don't just magically stay the same in every scenario. Hindsight is a great thing unless people assume the wrong stuff.

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11-26-2011, 11:48 AM
  #42
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Not totally sure why it's a complaint that Josi is inexperienced. That's generally how one's career works. You work for your opportunity then when you finally get it you're inexperienced. No big deal.

As far as hindsight goes, I think fans as a whole are extremely quick to assume that the same things would happen in a different situation. Not the case at all. Let's say we draft Eberle and he gets injured twice and people are like "oh man what a fragile joke of a draft pick. We're at it again with our terrible drafting." What if Shea Weber was drafted by another team that hampered his progress and he was never able to evolve into the player he is today? What about Rinne getting picked by someone else and maybe he's still hanging around the AHL, or even Europe? Things don't just magically stay the same in every scenario. Hindsight is a great thing unless people assume the wrong stuff.
gopreds19 makes a good point. I questioned his argument, and he did the same to me because I essentially contradicted myself.

w/r/t the rest of your post, I agree wholeheartedly. It's easy to assume that X player will do the same thing regardless of environment, but often times the very same people who hold tight to this assumption also have the opinion that Trotz is an offense killer.

With that said, I feel as though Poile has done a fair job. He drafts based on team needs rather than letting the glitz and the glam of certain prospects lead him in a direction that is not necessarily where the team needs to go. He understands not only team needs, but the organization's ability to develop certain types of players.

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11-26-2011, 11:55 AM
  #43
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Poile is among the best at putting together a competitive team on a small payroll. The great unknown is if he could assemble a team to take the next step if given more money to play with. We've enjoyed teams that have been in contention and able to skate with anyone since 2003-04 ... unfortunately we've come out on the short end of too many one goal games in the post season.

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11-26-2011, 09:24 PM
  #44
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The next 1-2 years will be a telling year for the Poile and the Preds.

We supposedly are going to be close to a cap team, but a lot of that money will be to retain the the current core. But is the core of this team built to go deep in the playoffs? If not, we may throw around a ton of money for slightly above average results.

It's still early in the season. With teams like EDM, MIN, DAL looking much improved, it's still a long road to simply make the playoffs.

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11-27-2011, 07:10 AM
  #45
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Poile is a fantastic GM. Lets be perfectly honest in that regard. He builds teams incredibly well. He has a knack for unearthing scouts, front office leaders, and excellent coaches. His best attribute is his ability to select the right defensemen. We have an absurd defensemen to the NHL ratio, even when you factor in all the Russian kids that clearly could play but choose not too.

However.

He also has clear weaknesses. Poile is passive. He is conservative. He is hesitant to move prospects in any deal. He is usually the one to overpay in a deal. Thus, we have a team that embodies his very own style. Good, sometimes great, but never elite. Smart, never dumb, but usually on the outside looking in. Always close, but never at the finish line.

Poile is shrewd. He is smart. He plays it safe. He knows he can't make many mistakes, and he runs his draft board and FA signings accordingly. His greatest weakness is also his greatest strength.

David Poile is who he is. This team is on the cusp of the Stanley Cup. There are two top 5 defensemen, the best goaltender in the league, and a decent supporting cast to boot. The farm team is brimming with talent, and we have a wide array of draft picks in the upcoming draft. We are a player away from shaking up our transition game - whether that be continued maturation of the youngsters or the acquistion of a player. I think Poile needs to look outside of the organization for this player in the short term. I hope he realizes it. I think he does....but he doesn't want to get burned.

Meh.

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11-27-2011, 07:14 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I disagree that the Kessel deal is on the best moves list. There's not a sensible person on this board that wouldn't trade Blum or Wilson for a kid who is not much older than either and is far out in front in the league's scoring race. I'd put down falling 750k short of Kessel's asking price a major failure, actually.

I also don't consider trading for Grebs a bad move. When healthy, he looked incredible and actually made our PP look dangerous for the first time since Zidlicky left. It's not Poile's fault he got a nut exploded.
Agreed on both accounts. Grebs was a protected asset as well. I actually think we had a high likelyhood of bringing him back had he continued to play as his initial stint indicated, or, at the least dealing him away. His injury screwed all parties involved. As for Kessel, this was a moment of truth for Poile, and he came tanilizingly close....too close to not deliver. Ack. Still frustrated with that whole situation.

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12-15-2011, 10:02 AM
  #47
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Personally, I think both Poole and trotz are among the top 5 in the league at their jobs. I cann't think of a single individual who could have done a better job given the same budget and player constraints these guys have and still do operate under.

For those calling for change, simply for the sake of change, beware of what you wish for, odds are great that change would be for the worse.

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12-15-2011, 10:36 AM
  #48
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Agreed on both accounts. Grebs was a protected asset as well. I actually think we had a high likelyhood of bringing him back had he continued to play as his initial stint indicated, or, at the least dealing him away. His injury screwed all parties involved. As for Kessel, this was a moment of truth for Poile, and he came tanilizingly close....too close to not deliver. Ack. Still frustrated with that whole situation.
I cannot believe that if we had simply been willing to match Torontos offer (salary) that Kessel would have gone for it. I suspect we would have had to substantially exceed their offer or he would have just waited for offer sheets to end up where he wanted to be.

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12-15-2011, 11:36 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I disagree that the Kessel deal is on the best moves list. There's not a sensible person on this board that wouldn't trade Blum or Wilson for a kid who is not much older than either and is far out in front in the league's scoring race. I'd put down falling 750k short of Kessel's asking price a major failure, actually.

I also don't consider trading for Grebs a bad move. When healthy, he looked incredible and actually made our PP look dangerous for the first time since Zidlicky left. It's not Poile's fault he got a nut exploded.
At the time that $750k was money that the team really couldn't afford. I still see Kessel as using us to help drive up the price where he really wanted to go. We made our best offer, fell short ... it happens.

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12-15-2011, 01:53 PM
  #50
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I always got the impression from that ordeal that Kessel was never really interested in playing for us anyway. Not that I blame him really. He was a young and cocky kid. It takes a humble type of player to want to come here.

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