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Old
11-25-2011, 07:44 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
A lot of guys can't wait to take them off, and see it as a minor little "I'm a professional now, and it's my decision" type deal.

The NHLPA won't take this one lying down, that's for sure.
They certainly won't take it laying down, but I don't foresee it being THAT big of an issue. The number of players wearing facial protection in the league literally increases by the day, and the change would apply to guys that aren't even in the union yet.

I'd wager we see visors grandfathered in within the next five years, or after the next horrific facial injury. Whichever comes first. Hopefully the former.

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Old
11-25-2011, 08:17 AM
  #77
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I wonder if Deveaux used the Lucic defense. "I didn't see him till the last minute and it was too late to stop." I mean Shanahan was stupid enough to fall for it once right?


As far as the "old time hockey" some here are advocating, the biggest thing you are forgetting is that those elbows were thrown using leather pads. Ever picked up an elbow or shoulder pad these days? Rock solid hard plastic. That has made a huge difference in the severity of the hits. Even "old time hockey" players have said the same thing.

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11-25-2011, 08:24 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truebluegoalie View Post
I wonder if Deveaux used the Lucic defense. "I didn't see him till the last minute and it was too late to stop." I mean Shanahan was stupid enough to fall for it once right?


As far as the "old time hockey" some here are advocating, the biggest thing you are forgetting is that those elbows were thrown using leather pads. Ever picked up an elbow or shoulder pad these days? Rock solid hard plastic. That has made a huge difference in the severity of the hits. Even "old time hockey" players have said the same thing.
I am a fan of oldtime hockey, I readily admit
But the laws of physics have taken a bit of the physical possibilities out of the game.
Impact = Speed x weight
Players are much bigger & faster today hence bigger consequences of impact. Especially on the head.
Although players wear helmuts - the effect on the head is undisputeably more severe than before. Basic science.
Maybe invent & impose rules on having slower skates ??? Kidding - but if the trend continues and players are even faster, bigger and stronger in the future - things will get even more extreme here. Does anyone want this?

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11-25-2011, 08:26 AM
  #79
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"Maybe invent & impose rules on having slower skates ??? Kidding - but if the trend continues and players are even faster, bigger and stronger in the future - things will get even more extreme here. Does anyone want this?"

Apparently there are some idiots who do want this.

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11-25-2011, 09:01 AM
  #80
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Dare I suggest the international size ice surface...?

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Old
11-25-2011, 09:16 AM
  #81
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Dare I suggest the international size ice surface...?
Its time has come.

About 15 years ago, but I doubt it will ever happen.

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Old
11-25-2011, 10:06 AM
  #82
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Its time has come.

About 15 years ago, but I doubt it will ever happen.
Ironically, in KHL there is a discussion to make rinks smaller for the entertainment value.

Separately, other than those defending Deveuax' hit as accidental, I'm totally dumbfounded by his other defenders - it was only months ago before everyone was outraged by Cook's hit on McD. The only difference is that Deveaux is the first time offender.

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Old
11-25-2011, 10:51 AM
  #83
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I don't think anyones defending the hit..Im opposed to those who say he should never play again..That is asinine..I thought Andy played very well doing his job for us.He wasn't a dirty player and didn't cost us any games..He is what every team needs, a big willing body on the 4th line..He is only here until Rupp gets back..I would much rather have Andy on the 4th line than MZA.




Quote:
Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
Ironically, in KHL there is a discussion to make rinks smaller for the entertainment value.

Separately, other than those defending Deveuax' hit as accidental, I'm totally dumbfounded by his other defenders - it was only months ago before everyone was outraged by Cook's hit on McD. The only difference is that Deveaux is the first time offender.

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Old
11-25-2011, 10:59 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Dare I suggest the international size ice surface...?
I'd like a bigger, longer rink. Not just wider.

Problem is, it would cut down on VIP seating and force major renovations to all arenas. We cant cut down on the size of the bedrooms where VIPS watch the games on TV, can we?

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11-25-2011, 11:07 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by truebluegoalie View Post
I wonder if Deveaux used the Lucic defense. "I didn't see him till the last minute and it was too late to stop." I mean Shanahan was stupid enough to fall for it once right?


As far as the "old time hockey" some here are advocating, the biggest thing you are forgetting is that those elbows were thrown using leather pads. Ever picked up an elbow or shoulder pad these days? Rock solid hard plastic. That has made a huge difference in the severity of the hits. Even "old time hockey" players have said the same thing.

Lucic's hit on Miller was clean. Nothing dirty about the hit.

Miller went way out of the crease to play the puck. The puck was not even remotely close to the crease. The skater (Lucic) has just as much right to the puck as the goalie.

Miller attempted to use his body in an obstructive manner, on Lucic. Miller actively and aggressively attempted to throw a "push" or hit into Lucic. Lucic flattened him out, as he should have.

This whole facade that Miller was some poor, innocent bystander or sitting duck; is absurd and absolutely wrong. The video clearly shows what Muiller did. He has only himself to blame.

No one forced him to come that far out and play the puck. No one forced him to engage with Lucic.

Miller could have easily skated back towards his crease and all of this would have been avoided. But he aggressively engaged with Lucic and Lucic cleaned his clock with a clean hit. As he should have.

If Miller is stupid enough to engage with a guy who out-weights him by 50-60 lbs, then, he needs to shut the hell up about how he got hit. Miller is an embarrassment.

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Old
11-25-2011, 11:12 AM
  #86
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Let's keep this on topic, guys and gals.

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Old
11-25-2011, 11:25 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
Ironically, in KHL there is a discussion to make rinks smaller for the entertainment value.

Separately, other than those defending Deveuax' hit as accidental, I'm totally dumbfounded by his other defenders - it was only months ago before everyone was outraged by Cook's hit on McD. The only difference is that Deveaux is the first time offender.
There's a big difference between what Cook does on a regular basis and what Deveaux did. Yes, their history speaks vloumes about each individual player. Cook, a mutil-repeat offender. Deveaux, never did anything like this in any league he played in, in his whole career. Then you watch the video, and if you actually played the game, you realize what happened. It wasn't intentional. It was spastic reflex in response to Deveaux's body passing Feigningfish's body postion and Deveaux wanted to lay a clean hit on him. So in a last ditch effort of spastic reflex, your brain tells your body to at least catch/tag a part of his body (chest, shoulder, arm) with a chicken wing flap.

I've seen it happen many times in games I played in and have done it myself many times.

Usually, the chicken wing doesn't catch the guy's head. Unfortunately, accidently, this time it did.

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Old
11-25-2011, 11:25 AM
  #88
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3 game suspension for Deveaux according to Darren Dreger

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Old
11-25-2011, 11:34 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
3 game suspension for Deveaux according to Darren Dreger
Eh, probably a little light, there. I'm thinking at least Five for first timers. But considering the situation and clearly it was accidental. I guess 3 is fine.

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11-25-2011, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Eh, probably a little light, there. I'm thinking at least Five for first timers. But considering the situation and clearly it was accidental. I guess 3 is fine.
Yeah, I was thinking 5 too...Shanny likely accepted the accident explanation.

I'm hoping that what we see is some consistency in the way these things get treated...something that combines the offense itself, the offenders past record and the injury sustained...and something that ignores the offender's salary, importance to their team or number of endorsements held (yeah...talkin' to you Ovi )

Overall, though, I think Shanahan's on the right track...

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11-25-2011, 11:47 AM
  #91
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I would have thought five, but three is reasonable.

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Old
11-25-2011, 11:47 AM
  #92
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OMG is this post serious? cause if it is then I have lost all hope for hockey and it's fans.. Let's send down Gabby cause he scores goals and we want other teams not to do it either.. omg i am so not understanding the logic
U do realize that Gabs scoring as an example is very poor since were talking about avoiding UNECASSARILY DANGEROUS. Play. I personally wasn't convinced that it was such a horrible hit but I'm not blind to the fact that just like driving u hit someone ur in trouble. U hit the head and ur intent doesn't matter u screwed up and weren't responsible enough.only thing they need to b fair about is guys who put their own heads in the way or turn their backs when they know they shouldnt

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11-25-2011, 11:49 AM
  #93
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Yeah, I was thinking 5 too...Shanny likely accepted the accident explanation.

I'm hoping that what we see is some consistency in the way these things get treated...something that combines the offense itself, the offenders past record and the injury sustained...and something that ignores the offender's salary, importance to their team or number of endorsements held (yeah...talkin' to you Ovi )

Overall, though, I think Shanahan's on the right track...
Agreed. As to Deveaux in particular, I wonder if Shanny took into account that a) he's got no history (that I'm aware of) and, b) as a fringe player, anything much longer than 3 games and you may have effectively ended his NHL career?

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11-25-2011, 12:20 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Agreed. As to Deveaux in particular, I wonder if Shanny took into account that a) he's got no history (that I'm aware of) and, b) as a fringe player, anything much longer than 3 games and you may have effectively ended his NHL career?
I think that second part may have played a huge role in his decision. 3 games seems like enough of a deterrent to someone who probably just saw his career flash before his eyes. I don't think the elbow was THAT malicious, just ill thought out. It certainly came off extremely ugly though.

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11-25-2011, 12:55 PM
  #95
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Deveaux is a little lucky here. I think he could easily have got 5 or more.

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11-25-2011, 01:31 PM
  #96
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Deveaux is a little lucky here. I think he could easily have got 5 or more.
Had Fleischmann suffered a concussion you can bet he would have gotten 5-8 games...

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11-25-2011, 02:01 PM
  #97
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They got this one right...now hopefully he learns his lesson because he has been a solid player for us.

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Old
11-26-2011, 06:14 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Glennsoe View Post
anyone got a youtube link to the hit?
Same here. Can't find a link anywhere. Anyone ???

Of course Prof.Shanahan http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=603118


Last edited by Ranger Angst: 11-26-2011 at 06:18 AM. Reason: found link
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Old
11-26-2011, 08:57 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
There's a big difference between what Cook does on a regular basis and what Deveaux did. Yes, their history speaks vloumes about each individual player. Cook, a mutil-repeat offender. Deveaux, never did anything like this in any league he played in, in his whole career. Then you watch the video, and if you actually played the game, you realize what happened. It wasn't intentional. It was spastic reflex in response to Deveaux's body passing Feigningfish's body postion and Deveaux wanted to lay a clean hit on him. So in a last ditch effort of spastic reflex, your brain tells your body to at least catch/tag a part of his body (chest, shoulder, arm) with a chicken wing flap.

I've seen it happen many times in games I played in and have done it myself many times.

Usually, the chicken wing doesn't catch the guy's head. Unfortunately, accidently, this time it did.
Totally right.

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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Lucic's hit on Miller was clean. Nothing dirty about the hit.

Miller went way out of the crease to play the puck. The puck was not even remotely close to the crease. The skater (Lucic) has just as much right to the puck as the goalie.

Miller attempted to use his body in an obstructive manner, on Lucic. Miller actively and aggressively attempted to throw a "push" or hit into Lucic. Lucic flattened him out, as he should have.

This whole facade that Miller was some poor, innocent bystander or sitting duck; is absurd and absolutely wrong. The video clearly shows what Muiller did. He has only himself to blame.

No one forced him to come that far out and play the puck. No one forced him to engage with Lucic.

Miller could have easily skated back towards his crease and all of this would have been avoided. But he aggressively engaged with Lucic and Lucic cleaned his clock with a clean hit. As he should have.

If Miller is stupid enough to engage with a guy who out-weights him by 50-60 lbs, then, he needs to shut the hell up about how he got hit. Miller is an embarrassment.
Totally wrong. Should Miller have stood there and let the guy come in on a breakaway? One of the Sabres should have sucker punched Lucic or Thomas, even if they were suspended. That's how you stop guys from taking cheap shots at your goalie.

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11-26-2011, 10:00 PM
  #100
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Totally right.



Totally wrong. Should Miller have stood there and let the guy come in on a breakaway? One of the Sabres should have sucker punched Lucic or Thomas, even if they were suspended. That's how you stop guys from taking cheap shots at your goalie.


No, I'm totally right on both counts.

Since when is "standing there and letting the guy come in on a breakaway" his only option? O h wait, he's a goalie. His job is to stop the puck on breakaways. Not go out and obstruct and physically engage with a player.

But regardless, your own words betray you. You admit Miller physically obstructed and engaged with Lucic. And in doing so, he's just like any other skater out there: subject to clean, hard checks.

If Miller does not want to get flattened by clean, hard checks; then he shouldn't engage in physical content. This nonsense with goalies be allowed to do whatever they want is pure garbage. If they want to engage, then there are consequences for engaging.

Don't want to suffer the consequences? Then stay in the net and make the save. Or if you go out there (out of your crease), play the puck, move it along quickly and get back to your net. Don't try to physically obstruct the opponent and nsdon't try to throw a shoulder or shove into an opponent. quite simple, really.

And don't go repeatedly whining like some 11 year old bratty little girl about how you got leveled. Miller is an embarrassment.

What amazes me is that the league hasn't gone adfter Muller for publically calling Lucic a piece of *****, twice. I mean, if Sean Avery says that.....Gary Buttman creates a whole new " Kill Avery Commitee" ....creates 15 new Anti-Avery Rules and bans Avery for three years.

This spineless whiner Miller says it and the league doesn't even blink and eye.


Last edited by Jeds2StepOpus: 11-26-2011 at 10:13 PM.
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