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Jagr or Lafleur? Better career?

View Poll Results: Better career so far?
Guy Lafleur 28 62.22%
Jaromir Jagr 17 37.78%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-21-2005, 10:03 AM
  #1
KOVALEV10*
 
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Jagr or Lafleur? Better career?

I know Jagr's career isnt over but who do you think has had the better career so far? Let's take a look at some of their numbers of both guys in their primes. (Starting in their 4th seasons respectively)



Jagr: 48 32 38 70
Lafleur: 70 53 66 119

Jagr: 82 62 87 149
Lafleur: 80 56 69 125

Jagr: 63 47 48 95
Lafleur: 80 56 80 136

Jagr: 77 35 67 102
Lafleur: 78 60 72 132

Jagr: 81 44 83 127
Lafleur: 80 52 77 129

Jagr: 63 42 54 96
Lafleur: 74 50 75 125

Jagr: 81 52 69 121
Lafleur: 51 27 43 70

Jagr: 69 38 41 79
Lafleur: 66 27 57 84

Jagr: 75 36 41 77
Lafleur: 68 27 49 76

Jagr: 77 31 43 74
Lafleur: 80 30 40 70

50 or more goal seasons:
Lafleur: 6
Jagr: 2

65 or more assists seasons:
Lafleur: 6
Jagr: 5

100 or more point seasons:
Lafleur: 6
Jagr: 4

Hart Trophies:
Lafleur: 2
Jagr: 1

Art Ross Trophies:
Lafleur: 3
Jagr: 5

Lester Pearson Trophies:
Lafleur: 3
Jagr:2

Cups:
Lafleur: 6
Jagr: 2

Conn Smythes:
Lafleur: 1
Jagr: 0

Goals:
Lafleur: 560
Jagr: 556

Assists:
Lafleur: 793
Jagr: 788

Points:
Lafleur: 1353
Jagr: 1344

Both players were also on pace for 2 more 100 or more point seasons and were injured. Both players has incredible stickhandling and raw speed. Lafleur used his slap shot more while Jagr preferred the wrister. Both were on great teams most of their careers but playing with Lemieux helped Jagr much more then anything Lafleur got. Too bad one guy got injured in the middle of their prime and the other simply didn't care to play great anymore. Anyways who do you think has had the better career so far? Who would you rather have on your team in their primes?

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Old
11-21-2005, 10:13 AM
  #2
Twist and Shout
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Jagr. The fact that Jagr has almost the same amount of points in a low-scoring league (until now) speaks volumes about his talent and impact on the game.

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11-21-2005, 11:23 AM
  #3
rad_sci_guy
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Lafleur

I feel that the competition was stronger in the seventies and early eighties. Also althought the Montreal teams in the seventies were some of the best, they were not the most talented offensively as the Penguins were. Could you imagine if Lafleur had offensive teammates like Lemeiux, Recchi, and Coffey playing with him on the powerplay or on a regular shift?

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11-21-2005, 12:00 PM
  #4
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LaFleur by a very wide margin. I'd say Guy is a top 15, certainly a top 20 player of all-time. Jagr would be top 50. To me the difference is in the playoffs. Jagr has two Cups, won early in his career, when he was a secondary contributor. (Even in 1992, when he was very good for Pittsburgh, he wasn't as good as Lemieux, Stevens, Tocchet, Francis, Murphy or Barrasso). Guy won six Cups, including four at his peak. I don't think a team could have won a Cup with Jagr as its best player. It's a reflection on the type of player he was. Montreal won a Cup with Guy as their best player, and a couple other when he was a frontrunner for the Conn Smythe.

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Old
11-21-2005, 12:03 PM
  #5
LePoche69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenSteen
Jagr. The fact that Jagr has almost the same amount of points in a low-scoring league (until now) speaks volumes about his talent and impact on the game.
mmm... While I sligthly agree, let's remember that Lafleur started his most productive seasons when only 1 or 2 guys were making 100+ point. At that time, goalies like Parent, Dryden and Resch had GAA around 2.00 or less.

There was like only Lafleur, Dionne and Trottier who made 100+ points. I think you confused the Lafleur's years with the Gretzky area.

On the opposite, Jagr started his years with Lemieux. Gretzky, Yzerman, Lafontaine, etc, were still amassing a lot of points.

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11-21-2005, 12:05 PM
  #6
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Lafleur quite easily

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Old
11-21-2005, 12:30 PM
  #7
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Lafleur,on principle if nothing else.

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11-21-2005, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rad_sci_guy
Lafleur

I feel that the competition was stronger in the seventies and early eighties. Also althought the Montreal teams in the seventies were some of the best, they were not the most talented offensively as the Penguins were. Could you imagine if Lafleur had offensive teammates like Lemeiux, Recchi, and Coffey playing with him on the powerplay or on a regular shift?
Lafleur played on the most dominant team ever. You can't say Jagr had better teammates that is absurd outside of Lemieux. How long did Jagr play with Coffey? Now ask how long the flower played with the Big 3 and Robinson in particular...

The Habs led the league in goals through the 70's.
72-73 2nd by 1 goal; 74-75 1st, 75-76 4th (11 behind leader); 76-77 and 77-78 1st; 78-79 2nd; 79-80 1st. They were the best scoring team of All-time in that period besides the early 70's Bruins and the 80's Oilers.

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11-21-2005, 05:11 PM
  #9
Luigi Lemieux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
LaFleur by a very wide margin. I'd say Guy is a top 15, certainly a top 20 player of all-time. Jagr would be top 50. To me the difference is in the playoffs. Jagr has two Cups, won early in his career, when he was a secondary contributor. (Even in 1992, when he was very good for Pittsburgh, he wasn't as good as Lemieux, Stevens, Tocchet, Francis, Murphy or Barrasso). Guy won six Cups, including four at his peak. I don't think a team could have won a Cup with Jagr as its best player. It's a reflection on the type of player he was. Montreal won a Cup with Guy as their best player, and a couple other when he was a frontrunner for the Conn Smythe.
jagr will end up somewhere between 10-20 all time too. remember, he's only 33 and probably has a good 3 or 4 years of production left.

i think jagr will end up having the better career without a doubt(13 straight 30 goal seasons). jagr will probably end up with 700 goals 1000 assists when he's done. who was better in their prime is probably a better question. that would be close and i'm not sure who i would take. ive only seen a couple of old games of lafleur so i have to go off numbers more than anything.

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Old
11-21-2005, 05:27 PM
  #10
reckoning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Both were on great teams most of their careers but playing with Lemieux helped Jagr much more then anything Lafleur got.
I don`t like Jagr, but to be fair it should be noted that 4 of his 5 scoring titles were won in years that Lemieux didn`t play, so the argument that he only put up big numbers because of Mario is false. Jagr would have been a top scorer on any team as long as he was motivated.

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11-21-2005, 05:38 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
I don`t like Jagr, but to be fair it should be noted that 4 of his 5 scoring titles were won in years that Lemieux didn`t play, so the argument that he only put up big numbers because of Mario is false. Jagr would have been a top scorer on any team as long as he was motivated.
Well if not for Lemieux.. in other years he also had Francis who was a top 10 playmaker himself.

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11-21-2005, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Well if not for Lemieux.. in other years he also had Francis who was a top 10 playmaker himself.
Nope. In the three year run of 99,00,01 Francis was a Carolina Hurricaine and Lemieux's contribution was the first 43 games of his comeback from retirement. Give credit where credit is due, I hate Jagr but he didn't ride any coat tails in that period- he was simply the best offensive player in the league.

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11-21-2005, 05:57 PM
  #13
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What do you mean by "better"?

Schumacher has 7 titles, Gilles has 6 wins. Which one is the "Greatest Driver Ever"?

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11-21-2005, 06:01 PM
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I'm a huge Jagr fan but as of right now I'd have to go with Lafleur.
Now if Jags has 4 or 5 more years at being in the top 5 players in the NHL, well then after Jagr retires I'd have to say they were pretty equal in every sense of the game.

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11-21-2005, 06:04 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
I don`t like Jagr, but to be fair it should be noted that 4 of his 5 scoring titles were won in years that Lemieux didn`t play, so the argument that he only put up big numbers because of Mario is false. Jagr would have been a top scorer on any team as long as he was motivated.
The five Art Ross trophies show he was better than his peers by a LARGER MARGIN than Lafleur was over his peers.

Jagr has been head and shoulders above everyone else not named Mario or Gretzky.

And in the LOW SCORING clutch-and-grab era of the nineties.

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11-21-2005, 06:26 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69
mmm... While I sligthly agree, let's remember that Lafleur started his most productive seasons when only 1 or 2 guys were making 100+ point. At that time, goalies like Parent, Dryden and Resch had GAA around 2.00 or less.

There was like only Lafleur, Dionne and Trottier who made 100+ points. I think you confused the Lafleur's years with the Gretzky area.

On the opposite, Jagr started his years with Lemieux. Gretzky, Yzerman, Lafontaine, etc, were still amassing a lot of points.
Get your facts straight.

In the 6 year run Lafleur had at 100+ points (age 23-29 approx) there were
7, 9, 3, 3, 7, 8 players with 100+ points (Orr, Espo, Dionne, P Mahovlich, Clarke, Robert, Perreault, Barber, Larouche, Ratelle, Pronovost, Sittler, Shutt, Trottier, Bossy, MacMillan, Chouinard, Potvin, Rogers, Simmer, Stoughton, Gretzky) So 22 different players got 100 points in Lafleur's 6 100 point years.

From Jagr's first 100+ point season (age 23-29 approx) in 95-96 over the next 6 years 12, 2, 1, 3, 0, 2 scored 100+ points (Lemieux, Sakic, Francis, Forsberg, Lindros, Kariya, Selanne, Mogilny, Fedorov, Weight, Gretzky in 95-96 and after that in the next 5 seasons no new player scored 100+ and there were only 5 times ANY player besides Jagr scored 100 in 5 SEASONS!

So the reality is that what acually occured was the exact opposite of your argument.

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11-21-2005, 06:59 PM
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I went with Lafleur.

Not that I am bias or anything

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11-21-2005, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
What do you mean by "better"?

Schumacher has 7 titles, Gilles has 6 wins. Which one is the "Greatest Driver Ever"?
Schumacher is. He has 7, remember?

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Old
11-24-2005, 03:37 AM
  #19
Evilo
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Jagr.
He had dominant seasons like Lafleur never had. And please people, stop talking about the high scoring Penguins. Jagr was the most dominant when he was playing with no names like Kip Miller and Jan Hrdina.
His 120+ season in 99 with these two, having a point in 50% of his team's goals, leading his team past the Devils even though he was injured and playing on one leg is as Gretzky and Mario both put it, one of the best season by a hockey player ever.

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11-24-2005, 07:30 AM
  #20
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They both had/have had great careers. Early on Jagr did not have the pressure that Lafleur did. Lafleur was expected to replace Jean Beliveau which was/is impossible. The expectations in Montreal at the time were ridiculous. The expectation was winning the Cup every year, a carryover from the late '50's and 60's.

Jagr was able to develop early on without the huge expectations. But he faced them later on. He is still villified by some in Pittsburgh for needing to move on from that. Lafleur was forced to retire because the Habs would not deal him. I'm glad he was able to come back later on and play elsewhere. Interesting that both players ended up in New York (as did Gretzky).

These are probably my two favorite players of all time, so I would never pick one or the other. They both were able to create offence all by themselves like very few others who have ever played the game.

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