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MZA may be back (The MZA Thread)

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Old
11-25-2011, 07:16 AM
  #201
raist
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I've been hard on Zuccarello, but, really, I've always liked the kid.

At this point, with how ****** the Rangers have been on the attack, id call up Zuccarello.

Power Play is awful. We need some creativity.

When Wolski comes back:

Wolski. Stepan. Gaborik
Hagelin. Richards. Callahan
Dubinsky. Anisimov. Zuccarello
Avery/Fedotenko. Boyle. Prust

Don't need Rupp, don't need Christensen.

Can't argue that Zuccarello hasn't been productive.

Still concerned about his skating and strength at the NHL level. But whatever. Give the kid a look.
To take another honest look cant hurt at this point. But even if he gets called up, torts will probably play him 5 min a night.

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11-25-2011, 07:32 AM
  #202
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10 min 5v5
5+ min PP

Should be enough minutes for Zuccarello.

We need a real third line that can actually create.

We are too redundant right now, top to bottom, as far as our forwards go.

Our defense is fine for now.

Have to be able to create, and we can't. Zuccarello still has great vision and can pass, even if he's not aagreat skater.

We need more creativity. This stagnant offense is going to kill our season.

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11-25-2011, 07:34 AM
  #203
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Wolski. Stepan. Gaborik
Hagelin. Richards. Callahan
Dubinsky. Anisimov. Zuccarello
Fedotenko. Boyle. Prust

We could roll 4 balanced lines.

I've been hard on the kid, because I wanted more out of him and still have concerns about his skating and strength. But I want him back up now. We need creativity badly.

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Old
11-25-2011, 08:54 AM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I've been hard on Zuccarello, but, really, I've always liked the kid.

At this point, with how ****** the Rangers have been on the attack, id call up Zuccarello.

Power Play is awful. We need some creativity.

When Wolski comes back:

Wolski. Stepan. Gaborik
Hagelin. Richards. Callahan
Dubinsky. Anisimov. Zuccarello
Avery/Fedotenko. Boyle. Prust

Don't need Rupp, don't need Christensen.

Can't argue that Zuccarello hasn't been productive.

Still concerned about his skating and strength at the NHL level. But whatever. Give the kid a look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Wolski. Stepan. Gaborik
Hagelin. Richards. Callahan
Dubinsky. Anisimov. Zuccarello
Fedotenko. Boyle. Prust

We could roll 4 balanced lines.

I've been hard on the kid, because I wanted more out of him and still have concerns about his skating and strength. But I want him back up now. We need creativity badly.

Eh, I share your dubiousness regarding MZA (I think the kid's combination of small size and below average speed simply doesn't work in the NHL, no matter the creativity) and frankly I have my doubts as to whether that lineup would work out long-term.

Having said that, given the players we have available today, it's hard to argue with your RWs and Cs in that scenario - at least until camp next year when hopefully one of Thomas, Miller or Fasth makes it more interesting. Not sure about your LWs (I think you're wrong about Rupp, especially if he's played on the 4th line) but I wouldn't mind rolling something along those lines. At least until an upgrade becomes available via trade.

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11-25-2011, 10:35 AM
  #205
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Crossposting from the Mitchell-Hagelin thread:

I made a spreadsheet, using the data on http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats to give a picture of NYR's defensive play last year

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...jN3TXVuemFTeUE

And while he's tenth in takeaways each match, he is fourth in giveaways (as in low number=higher), he's sixth in Giveaway/Takeaway ratio, having 2.667 takeaways for each giveaway. He threw more hits/game than Boogard, and blocked more shots/game than Prust or Dubi.

When a guy with that much skill and creativity put's up defensive numbers like that, you can't say he's a liability, or to small. And this is when he weren't put on the ice when the Rangers were pressured. His linemates most of the time were WW and Stephan, that scores worse than him on a per game basis in every singe category except takeaways.

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11-25-2011, 10:44 AM
  #206
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He should be up here for the PP alone. I can't agree with the Mitchell/Hagelin call ups as I don't think it addresses the Rangers most profound weakness - the PP. I could've seen Hagelin & MZA and scratching EC and Deveaux (suspension looming). Maybe it doesn't work under the $ cap.

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11-25-2011, 11:30 AM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anofsti View Post
Crossposting from the Mitchell-Hagelin thread:

I made a spreadsheet, using the data on http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats to give a picture of NYR's defensive play last year

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...jN3TXVuemFTeUE

And while he's tenth in takeaways each match, he is fourth in giveaways (as in low number=higher), he's sixth in Giveaway/Takeaway ratio, having 2.667 takeaways for each giveaway. He threw more hits/game than Boogard, and blocked more shots/game than Prust or Dubi.

When a guy with that much skill and creativity put's up defensive numbers like that, you can't say he's a liability, or to small. And this is when he weren't put on the ice when the Rangers were pressured. His linemates most of the time were WW and Stephan, that scores worse than him on a per game basis in every singe category except takeaways.
Yeaaah, look - quoting statistics isn't going to convince anyone who's watched him play in NA. Takeaway/giveaway factors in only those few plays where the puck is actually turned over.

Where's the statistic for "team X dominated play in team Y's zone because team Y had a slow, extremely undersized defender who couldn't prevent team X from doing anything"?

I was originally enthused for the MZA signing, because I hadn't seen him play and I assumed that a player that small with that kind of scoring acumen was likely to also be extremely fast. After all, that has been the pattern of successful undersized players in the past. Upon realizing that he's actually below average speed-wise and his skill is strictly limited to his (admittedly superior) vision and passing, I have little hope for his long-term success in the NHL with bigger, faster, more physical players playing on smaller rinks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm currently on record with SM's suggestion due to the lack of other options - I'm just not sanguine about the chance for long-term success.

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Old
11-25-2011, 11:16 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Eh, I share your dubiousness regarding MZA (I think the kid's combination of small size and below average speed simply doesn't work in the NHL, no matter the creativity) and frankly I have my doubts as to whether that lineup would work out long-term.

Having said that, given the players we have available today, it's hard to argue with your RWs and Cs in that scenario - at least until camp next year when hopefully one of Thomas, Miller or Fasth makes it more interesting. Not sure about your LWs (I think you're wrong about Rupp, especially if he's played on the 4th line) but I wouldn't mind rolling something along those lines. At least until an upgrade becomes available via trade.

Zuccarello looks likes he has given up NYR. He has not made any points his last 4 games. Last night - 3. I think he does not care anymore, He just want to finish the contract and get the h... out of there

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11-25-2011, 11:38 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anofsti View Post
Crossposting from the Mitchell-Hagelin thread:

I made a spreadsheet, using the data on http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats to give a picture of NYR's defensive play last year

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...jN3TXVuemFTeUE

And while he's tenth in takeaways each match, he is fourth in giveaways (as in low number=higher), he's sixth in Giveaway/Takeaway ratio, having 2.667 takeaways for each giveaway. He threw more hits/game than Boogard, and blocked more shots/game than Prust or Dubi.

When a guy with that much skill and creativity put's up defensive numbers like that, you can't say he's a liability, or to small. And this is when he weren't put on the ice when the Rangers were pressured. His linemates most of the time were WW and Stephan, that scores worse than him on a per game basis in every singe category except takeaways.
Yay! Positive stats!

Here's a negative one, which I also mentioned in another thread. ~40% of his points last year came in ~10% of his games. Take out those 4 games and suddenly his PPG average drops below 0.4. And look, the point of bringing this up is not to say that those other 38 games are necessarily more representative of his game than the 4 in which he had multiple points. The point is that statistics are really difficult to apply in such a small sample size. Therefore, many of us prefer to rely on our observations of the player on the ice and tend to discount the statistics out-right.

He's got great vision. He's got very good hands with the puck on his stick and a player to pass to. He's got a decent shot. He's very small. He's an average skater. Once again, I have my doubts that the former three points are enough to overcome the combination of the latter two. This isn't coming from anything Zuccarello specific. I like the player and I like the person. We've just seen a ton of players with this exact set of skills and obstacles become career AHLers and I can't think of one who was a career NHLer.

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Old
11-26-2011, 08:50 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenGuru View Post
Zuccarello looks likes he has given up NYR. He has not made any points his last 4 games. Last night - 3. I think he does not care anymore, He just want to finish the contract and get the h... out of there
He has 1 assist in his last 4.
But I agreed. I think he has resigned and lost his psyche. I afraid those two last call ups broke his last hope.
And I understand him.

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11-26-2011, 11:54 AM
  #211
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He did play his ass off against the Pirates, even if he didn't get any points.

I do belive he'll have a long way up at the moment though. He propably won't be called up unless there are two injuries, as long as Hagelin and Mitchell are working out. But I won't go hoping someone gets injured just to see MZA play in the NHL again. Worst case scenario is that Rangers gives him a Qualifying Offer, and he goes back to Europe until he is an UFA.

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11-26-2011, 12:03 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by fredrikstad View Post
He has 1 assist in his last 4.
But I agreed. I think he has resigned and lost his psyche. I afraid those two last call ups broke his last hope.
And I understand him.

Yes I know. He worked hard this summer, felt camp were going great. Torts said he was one of their best players in camp. Then he playes few minutes in 3 games on the 3rd-4th line and got cut off. And now he see many players get called up before him. If I were him I would have been really frustrated. I hope he gets traded to a more creative team in NHL.

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11-26-2011, 12:40 PM
  #213
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I don't think he's the kind of player that gives up...

He's jump in a slump..

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11-26-2011, 02:53 PM
  #214
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I don't think he'll give up either, but unless something bad happens to another player (injury or serious slump), I just don't think he'll get a chance anymore, and I won't wish for someone to get injured or get in a slump either.

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11-26-2011, 04:39 PM
  #215
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Rangers will almost assuredly trade him at the deadline for a pick.

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11-27-2011, 07:48 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Rangers will almost assuredly trade him at the deadline for a pick.
seems that way. Not sure if this source is any good but at snyrangerblog they have a Edmonton Journal source saying he is available

— If anybody’s interested in hockey Hobbit Mats Zuccarello, he’s certainly available. The five-foot-six Norwegian Olympic find (2010) was passed over when the Rangers were looking for reinforcements from their farm team on Friday. They went for a Swede named Carl Hagelin, who fits more into John Tortorella’s dump-and-chase game

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11-27-2011, 08:15 AM
  #217
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I don't doubt for a second that he's been made available. Zuccarello hasn't done anything wrong, Rangers brass probably understand that it would be beneficial to all sides to just move him and get some value. He's just not going to crack the top-6 on this team with this coach.

TBH, I really don't think he makes a big impact in the NHL. I mean, what's the ceiling on Zuccarello, 65-70 points a season? I think most NHL GM's and coaches look at a guy his size and figure he'd have to be a LOCK for that amount of points to stick on an NHL roster.

Look at other small guys around the league that have had success... Pat Kane is an offensive dynamo and is proving this season that he can play every forward position comfortably (and be decently successful at faceoffs, which boggles my mind)... Martin St. Louis goes without saying, the guy is a wizard... Gionta is captain of his team and kills penalties... Cammalleri is a pure sniper and can score 40 goals... Desharnais is on fire and wins a ton of FO's and gets occasional PK time... Derek Roy can be a PPG player and also wins FO's and plays solid D...

Really the two players in the NHL now most similar to Zuccarello are probably Ennis and Gerbe. Both small, youngish players and neither of them are getting lots of ice time and neither kill penalties. Ruff obviously has a different coaching philosophy from Tortorella and their system relies more heavily on speed and transition as opposed to ours which requires more physicality and forechecking so they're comfortable carrying players like that. They are the exceptions in this league.

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11-27-2011, 11:29 AM
  #218
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to quote herb brooks from Miracle

Quote:
I'm not looking for the best players, Craig. I'm looking for the right ones.
That's what ive always maintained. MZA's style does NOT fit in well with the Rangers style unless he's putting up points galore, which he isnt. Same thing is true about Marian Gaboriks game, his style doesnt fit in with the Rangers style, except he can still put up a ton of points. Carl Hagelins style fits in PERFECTLY with the Rangers style...as does Kreider, Cally, Dubi, etc.

Rangers are a team built to outwork the opponents on the boards, and play strong in their own zone. they transition well, which is why Gabby can still make it work. MZA is meant for more of a quick passing type team, which we arent. hed be great in the west on a few teams, and on the Habs here in teh East.

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11-27-2011, 04:15 PM
  #219
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it's mind boggling why anybody is still trying to argue that MZA should be on this team over anybody. the guy does not fit in the system, he has shown that. if you bring him up to just play him on the powerplay and give him 6 minutes of 5 on 5 (all he's shown he deserves) people will complain about his time still. why not keep the guys like hagelin and mitchell (whose line has 2 points in 2 games) and start looking to trade the guy away. he also still have wolski and rupp coming back. where do people see mats fitting in on this lineup?

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11-27-2011, 04:41 PM
  #220
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#TheNHLReport:

Quote:
#Rangers have said that Mats Zuccarello is available in the trade market
And of course there is another article in a norwegian news today. Once again his agent just cannot shut up. He says there are other NHL clubs following Zuccarello, but wont reveal which ones.....

Google Translate

Basically old news IOW....

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