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Washington Capitals vs New York Rangers, November 25th, 4pm, @ The Phone Booth

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11-26-2011, 08:08 AM
  #251
Fallschirmyager
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
in a perfect world? sure. if the caps continue to slide and need an in season change, what is the alternative? let dean evason coach the team til they find someone? go the interm coach route and when the team picks it up under the interm coach, hire him for the obvious reasons or fire him anyway?

if the idea is to chunk the season, they might as well keep boudreau regardless and then can him off season. but that could be intolerable, if things dont improve.

i certainly see problems with hiring hunter who has no professional coaching experience. but i also dont see the instant cup that many see coming because changing boudreau is the key to a cup.

do many here still want to see a hard driving/accountability driven coach after the caps best players(player) seems to responded badly to the whip being cracked? half the roster has been benched or healthy scratched by now. is another coach like bob hartley who is harsher yet going to get a better performance?
or
is the next coach another players coach?

by the way...why kirk muller? muller is basically a devils style trap coach. is that the best use of the caps roster? food for thought.
In short, yes. It's about when you crack the whip. If you're buddy buddy with the guys and need to tighten up the discipline it's much harder to do. There is a lot more push back. If you come in and crack the whip to not only shake up the team but also establish what I say goes it's much more effective. That isn't to say you have to be a task master but you can't be lax and then decide to make the guys jump. It's significantly more difficult.

BB did not establish and maintain enough distance/discipline over his tenure so now that he is cracking the whip, no one is jumping.

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11-26-2011, 08:37 AM
  #252
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you believe then another step up on the demanding scale will be successful? it might be, but i dont see anyone mentioning that it could go the other way.


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11-26-2011, 08:55 AM
  #253
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you believe then another step up on the demanding scale will be successful? it might be, but i dont see anyone mentioning that it could go the other way.
If that next step up is by BB it will most likely fail for the reasons I already stated. A new coach coming in with that step up is far more likely to be successful because he's starting out that way and not changing. I'm not advocating a Mike Keenan type but certainly a coach that consistently demands accountability and hard work if you want ice time.

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11-26-2011, 09:16 AM
  #254
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here's what i dont buy. that another figure telling ov to sit on the bench is going to make a dent.

part of what i read in this mess is those that wanted players benched and scratched for poor play didnt consider that the focus of such accountability would be ovechkin. if ovechkin goes sour, the entire team goes down.

i see what you are saying that boudreau was the wrong person to deliver the medicine. i think you are playing with fire if you think its not a risk to bring someone new in with the same or nastier tasting medicine and think that ovechkin is going to return to his old self.

the whip is still the whip.

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11-26-2011, 09:20 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
In short, yes. It's about when you crack the whip. If you're buddy buddy with the guys and need to tighten up the discipline it's much harder to do. There is a lot more push back. If you come in and crack the whip to not only shake up the team but also establish what I say goes it's much more effective. That isn't to say you have to be a task master but you can't be lax and then decide to make the guys jump. It's significantly more difficult.

BB did not establish and maintain enough distance/discipline over his tenure so now that he is cracking the whip, no one is jumping.
Amen.

Also, the players know bb. This new bb may be a lot more forced, not natural, and seen as fake. Also if it's not natural, he could really suck at understanding when to push buttons.

Lastly, a new coach isn't going to get fired. Players know they can't wait him out.

Not saying any above is true. Just reasons why you can't transfer accountability/discipline by BB to a new coach.

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11-26-2011, 09:23 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
here's what i dont buy. that another figure telling ov to sit on the bench is going to make a dent.

part of what i read in this mess is those that wanted players benched and scratched for poor play didnt consider that the focus of such accountability would be ovechkin. if ovechkin goes sour, the entire team goes down.

i see what you are saying that boudreau was the wrong person to deliver the medicine. i think you are playing with fire if you think its not a risk to bring someone new in with the same or nastier tasting medicine and think that ovechkin is going to return to his old self.

the whip is still the whip.
If ovi reacts this way over long haul, he's not a player I want on my team and not the player we thought.

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11-26-2011, 09:53 AM
  #257
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An effective disciplinarian has a clear-cut way the team is supposed to play. They're black and white all the way down the line and that certainty is where the motivation comes from. It's not just making players accountable but the reasoning behind it and the strength of that personality from a preparation standpoint. It's the difference between a natural philosophy...and posturing.

This group has the look of a team that folds under pressure because they still don't execute with nearly enough tempo, chemistry or work ethic. In increasingly frequent fashion, they show up lacking urgency in their game and let the opponent dictate the style of play. If they match the opponent's focus and the opponent relents they're fine. If the opponent is on a roll, forechecks aggressively and plays 60 minutes they're in trouble. It's precisely the sort of thing that makes them a questionable playoff team because most every team in the league these days plays that sort of aggressive game. They're not going to go anywhere playing passive or not having their possession game in order and that's been an issue for going on eleven months now.

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11-26-2011, 10:08 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
here's what i dont buy. that another figure telling ov to sit on the bench is going to make a dent.

part of what i read in this mess is those that wanted players benched and scratched for poor play didnt consider that the focus of such accountability would be ovechkin. if ovechkin goes sour, the entire team goes down.

i see what you are saying that boudreau was the wrong person to deliver the medicine. i think you are playing with fire if you think its not a risk to bring someone new in with the same or nastier tasting medicine and think that ovechkin is going to return to his old self.

the whip is still the whip.
The whip is still the whip but it's very different when it's delivered by someone you're not buddies with. This is the specific reason that when a young soldier is first promoted into a leadership position, they move him to at least a new platoon where the soldiers he now has to lead aren't his friends. The resistance is formidable. When a guy you don't know is given that authority he has a distance you don't have with a friend.

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11-26-2011, 10:46 AM
  #259
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If ovi reacts this way over long haul, he's not a player I want on my team and not the player we thought.
I agree and Ovy is one of my favorites all time. One of the things I like about him is he wasn't like Bure, Mogilny, or Semin. He changed my opinion on Russian players outside of Larionov and Fetisov. I'm not too harsh on him because he still hits people and had chances. I really think a coaching change and PP position will help him a ton with scoring. I try not to think his issues are team related but who really knows.

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11-26-2011, 10:57 AM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langway View Post
An effective disciplinarian has a clear-cut way the team is supposed to play. They're black and white all the way down the line and that certainty is where the motivation comes from. It's not just making players accountable but the reasoning behind it and the strength of that personality from a preparation standpoint. It's the difference between a natural philosophy...and posturing.

This group has the look of a team that folds under pressure because they still don't execute with nearly enough tempo, chemistry or work ethic. In increasingly frequent fashion, they show up lacking urgency in their game and let the opponent dictate the style of play. If they match the opponent's focus and the opponent relents they're fine. If the opponent is on a roll, forechecks aggressively and plays 60 minutes they're in trouble. It's precisely the sort of thing that makes them a questionable playoff team because most every team in the league these days plays that sort of aggressive game. They're not going to go anywhere playing passive or not having their possession game in order and that's been an issue for going on eleven months now.
Agreed. And on the first point the players may be frustrated and confused caused they don't know where the lines are because of BB's communication style. And that frustration may come across as quitting on the coach. I know this season is a whole different set of rules for players and coaches. There was always going to be pain. Not a smooth transition. I hope gmgm and Ted know the difference between pain and failure and don't cut bb too soon.

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11-26-2011, 12:22 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
Agreed. And on the first point the players may be frustrated and confused caused they don't know where the lines are because of BB's communication style. And that frustration may come across as quitting on the coach. I know this season is a whole different set of rules for players and coaches. There was always going to be pain. Not a smooth transition. I hope gmgm and Ted know the difference between pain and failure and don't cut bb too soon.
This last point is very important but it runs up against the calendar. I think a coaching change may well be in order and agree with what's been said here about the difference between a lax coach changing his style vs. someone coming in tough from the start, but it is possible that these are merely growing pains and it will sort itself out with BB behind the bench.

I think tho that time becomes a factor pretty soon, too. Even if the ship will right, can we afford to fall to 12th in the EC going into the new year? Don't think so. A few more games is all the cushion I think GMGM and Ted can allow.

Also, thinking about this I had another depressing thought: if the Caps fire Bruce, I could see the Avs replacing Sacco with him. Given how good he can be with a young roster, he could **** that promising situation up for the Caps too. Sorry, just a little post-rout catastrophizing.

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11-26-2011, 12:51 PM
  #262
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One of my favorite parts of yesterdays game was Brouwers goal. TB takes the body behind the net than Ovechkin feeds of that and lands a hit of his own. It would be cool to see those two always try to out-do eachothers hits.

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