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Gm #23 Kings v. Blackhawks, 11/26/11 - Post Game LOSS, Thoughts & Tidbits

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11-27-2011, 01:41 AM
  #101
deeshamrock
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And like most of you know, it's the system, not the players. If the players were so bad, the PP would be too.
Exactly. That's the only time they are out of the smothering effect of TM's suffoctaing system and can show a bit of creativity. Also, what happens to the players that go from his system to another team? I'm guessing their goal scoring and points increase.

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11-27-2011, 01:46 AM
  #102
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From LA Kings Insider TM's post game comment

First sentence opens with...
Quote:
Holding them at two goals is good.
And there Kings' fans is the coach of the year. Hopefully all the other coaches who were runners up are writing that down. Wow what a concept, esp when your team SCORES ONE...

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11-27-2011, 01:46 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
Exactly. That's the only time they are out of the smothering effect of TM's suffoctaing system and can show a bit of creativity. Also, what happens to the players that go from his system to another team? I'm guessing their goal scoring and points increase.
The PP is the one time TM lets the players get somewhat creative. And what happens? The players succeed. There is no lack of talent on this team. Sure, we can use a second line LW and a third line grinder, but the personnel on this team are more than capable of scoring over 1.3 5-on-5 goals a game. That is just pathetic. TM has to go. Period.

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11-27-2011, 01:47 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
Exactly. That's the only time they are out of the smothering effect of TM's suffoctaing system and can show a bit of creativity. Also, what happens to the players that go from his system to another team? I'm guessing their goal scoring and points increase.
Not really. None that really stick out. I might be missing a player...


Edit: there was Boyle and Purcell. It's hard to miss those players though.

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11-27-2011, 01:48 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
From LA Kings Insider TM's post game comment

First sentence opens with...

And there Kings' fans is the coach of the year. Hopefully all the other coaches who were runners up are writing that down. Wow what a concept, esp when your team SCORES ONE...
Yeah, that quote was hilarious. He sounds desperate. It really is pathetic.

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Old
11-27-2011, 01:53 AM
  #106
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Hockey is first and foremost a business. And if Dean had the opportunity to package Brown with other players and prospects to get an all star winger , like Parise or Nash or similar, he'd do it. His goal is to put the best team together to have a deep Cup run and that second line needs skilled wingers. If for no other reason, Gagne and Williams have an injury riddled history. What if one of them goes down??? If you have a highly skilled , elite winger on the 2nd lne, you havea replacment.

I thought Richards was a safe bet, not only because he wore the C well but because he was the heart of the team and did lead them deep to 2 ECF's and Cup Final. June 23rd, 4pm EST proved me wrong.

Being the captain and captaining the team can be the same player or not. Brown is wearing the C, but so far this year, Richards and Kopi have been doing what a captain needs to game in and game out, shift in and shift out .That 's what players respond to.
If Dean made that move, he has two excellent choices for the C.
Yeah, it is a business, and to trade away the player who first bought into DL creating a winning culture here is bad business. The fact that Brownie's a captain is secondary.

And an emphatic "no" to trading Brownie and package for a Parise the rental?

DL doesn't overpay for rentals!

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11-27-2011, 01:58 AM
  #107
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Yeah, it is a business, and to trade away the player who first bought into DL creating a winning culture here is bad business. The fact that Brownie's a captain is secondary.

And an emphatic "no" to trading Brownie and package for a Parise the rental?

DL doesn't overpay for rentals!
Winning culture? LOL. Zero playoff series wins and currently sitting with more losses than wins this season. A culture has surely been built, but winning isn't the word for it.

Brown is going nowhere because he is a textbook Lombardi and Murray player.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:01 AM
  #108
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Winning culture? LOL. Zero playoff series wins and currently sitting with more losses than wins this season. A culture has surely been built, but winning isn't the word for it.

Brown is going nowhere because he is a textbook Lombardi and Murray player.
Yeah, winning culture. I didn't say we were there yet. Still a work in progress.

Patience!

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:05 AM
  #109
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That was fun watching the Kings play in their turkey/stuffing/sweet potatoes/pumpkin pie induced coma.

Hunter with two golden opportunities. He fans on one and fires the other wide.

Loktionov needs to play center. His game picks up a level when he is feeding his wings.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:06 AM
  #110
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My thoughts on today's game:



Pretty much.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:11 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Shellz View Post
Not really. None that really stick out. I might be missing a player...


Edit: there was Boyle and Purcell. It's hard to miss those players though.
I know it's a small sample size, but Ryan Smyth has 12 goals and 12 assists in 23 games. He has more goals and the same amount of points as Kopitar...........think about that for a minute

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:13 AM
  #112
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Loktionov needs to play center. His game picks up a level when he is feeding his wings.
Okay, so would that be done? When Penner comes back, does Loki center the third line with Stoll in wing? Would TM do that?

Loki is talented, and maybe given more time thru the season all aspects of his game improve. But will TM see that or send him back to Manchester?

He still has Parse to fit in somewhere

Unless seeing how good Loki has been spurs DL to move some of the lower tier players.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:18 AM
  #113
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This is what I see happening. In past years we had difficulty in scoring, but it didn't seem as bad and we were actually pretty successful overall team wise. We didn't have much top end talent so we went with the dump and chase and the cycling forever down low offense because we had no other choice. What that did was actually keep us in the O-zone more often then our D-zone so shots against was low and we didn't get forechecked as much as we are getting to this point.

This year we upgraded skill wise so naturally we would want to open it up a little bit, but unfortunately the Kings are caught in the middle. First thing, the roster does not fit the system. Our identity in past years was dump and chase and cycle down low and then get the puck to the point and blast it! There will always be someone's ass in the goalie's face. Pucks will be bouncing everywhere and there would be chaos. No tape to tape beauty cutesy plays. Dump it in get the puck and muck it in. With the upgrade with skill we lost the grit, the board play, the puck protection, and the greasiness. Is it a surprise we that we did a little bit better once murray went with Hunter-Kopi-Clifford line et al in the third. Kopi had little option but to create and everyone else just banged. No pass to be just picked off and rushed the other way.

So, what is the solution? Should we get rid of Murray? Lombardi? I suppose Murray is dispensable. I believe he was here to in grain a system of defense first to a fledgling hockey club. Defense wins hockey games. He has succeeded in that department. Now, the system that he has instilled is just a bare bones system. I think Lombardi has now made the first step in making that next move already and that was increasing our skill level. You can see there is a system-roster mismatch. Like I said, the Kings are caught in the middle. The next coach is going to run most likely a similar model, but with more of an offensive plan that fits the Kings current roster better, or that is the idea. That's just what I am seeing and predicting. I don't know if I'm right, though.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:20 AM
  #114
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its gonna be a long season folks. if we can get into the playoffs with a healthy top six. gagne and williams step up in the playoffs as do JJ and DD. quick will stand on his head. kopi and richards will do what they do, game plan simplifies in the playoffs. if we can play solid defense. well be straight. let the blasting begin... psp get you licks in

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:25 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Wait a second - I thought that I was supposed to be the negative one around here...

I bet you're loving this.

Looks like you were right after all, Kings can't score goals.

I still have hope with or without TM but with each passing game I lean more towards the new coach bandwagon.

I still think this team is too talented to be this bad and will eventually find it's way. But right now is painful.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:32 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MynameisKing View Post
This is what I see happening. In past years we had difficulty in scoring, but it didn't seem as bad and we were actually pretty successful overall team wise. We didn't have much top end talent so we went with the dump and chase and the cycling forever down low offense because we had no other choice. What that did was actually keep us in the O-zone more often then our D-zone so shots against was low and we didn't get forechecked as much as we are getting to this point.

This year we upgraded skill wise so naturally we would want to open it up a little bit, but unfortunately the Kings are caught in the middle. First thing, the roster does not fit the system. Our identity in past years was dump and chase and cycle down low and then get the puck to the point and blast it! There will always be someone's ass in the goalie's face. Pucks will be bouncing everywhere and there would be chaos. No tape to tape beauty cutesy plays. Dump it in get the puck and muck it in. With the upgrade with skill we lost the grit, the board play, the puck protection, and the greasiness. Is it a surprise we that we did a little bit better once murray went with Hunter-Kopi-Clifford line et al in the third. Kopi had little option but to create and everyone else just banged. No pass to be just picked off and rushed the other way.

So, what is the solution? Should we get rid of Murray? Lombardi? I suppose Murray is dispensable. I believe he was here to in grain a system of defense first to a fledgling hockey club. Defense wins hockey games. He has succeeded in that department. Now, the system that he has instilled is just a bare bones system. I think Lombardi has now made the first step in making that next move already and that was increasing our skill level. You can see there is a system-roster mismatch. Like I said, the Kings are caught in the middle. The next coach is going to run most likely a similar model, but with more of an offensive plan that fits the Kings current roster better, or that is the idea. That's just what I am seeing and predicting. I don't know if I'm right, though.
nothing wrong with dump and chase and cycling the puck. seeing skilled players on the cycle is actually entertaining hockey.

you are right tho, the offensive philosophy/system is frustrating. nothing is clicking because TMs game plan wants the offense on the perimeter he doesnt want us to take risks and take the puck into high scoring areas and risk an oddman rush the other way. he puts a skilled center on the wing. leaves stoll at center, everyone on the bottom six is being utilized in the wrong way, et cetera. the list is too long.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:33 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by lakingsdrummer View Post
I bet you're loving this.

Looks like you were right after all, Kings can't score goals.

I still have hope with or without TM but with each passing game I lean more towards the new coach bandwagon.

I still think this team is too talented to be this bad and will eventually find it's way. But right now is painful.
No Kings fan is enjoying this, not even PSP. It f'ing sucks to watch so much talent play like garbage and not a damn thing being done about it.....

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:39 AM
  #118
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TM "Holding them at two goals is good. "

Uhh that was their third game in four nights. It's not surprising that they didn't score more.


Last edited by Cruel11: 11-27-2011 at 02:45 AM.
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Old
11-27-2011, 02:42 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Ethan Moreau and Trent Hunter aside, is anyone else extremely disappointed by Dustin Brown's play? His questionable decision making with the puck tends to kill many offensive opportunities for the Kings. As the captain of the team, I would think he is someone who needs to set an example, and if he's going to lead by example, then I guess I he's leading the Kings nowhere.
Ziggy's spot on as usual. The second line has been crap all year and Richards is doing all the job by himself. Brown is having his worst season as a King IMO, taking stupid decisions, shooting his usual weak shots into the goalie stomach and not throwing the bodie as he was used to do. He's really frustrating, but he's not the only one.

This team really needs a shake up, a coaching staff change would the be the best thing to happen. And we also need some radical adjustments on the bottom 6, we are simply atrocious.

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11-27-2011, 02:44 AM
  #120
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The sad thing about today's loss is that aside from a dismal first period where nothing was happening, the Kings did seem to outplay the Hawks, but in the end, it still is a wasted effort that goes back to the same tired old problem that has become this teams' Achilles heel: they simply have no finish. Just watch most of LA's great scoring opportunities, they don't come from setup plays, it is from second chances or scrambles in front. Their offensive strategy is playing a game of chance.

If the Kings are to take that apparent next step, then they have to become an intimidating team. Clearly they won't intimidate teams offensively, but they have failed to do so physically as well. What good are those big bodies that Dean Lombardi has accumulated if they aren't going to be a physical presence? Rather, we see guys like Moreau taking needless slashing penalties costing the team valuable points in the standings.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:47 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
But Murray was brought in because he runs the system that the GM wants to run. The GM and coach worked together in Philly, they are familiar with each other, they see eye to eye on how to win hockey games. They both believe in defensive "2-1" build from the net out hockey.
Why would the GM replace his hand picked coach and give the keys of his defensive baby to some offensive minded coach. The tiger known as Dean Lombardi is never going to change his stripes.
And how many stanley cups does these people in charge have got combined ??

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11-27-2011, 02:50 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
My thoughts on today's game:



Pretty much.
This brings the meaning of the word priceless to another level...

thank you!

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Old
11-27-2011, 03:09 AM
  #123
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No offense but Richards seems to make a lot of bone head passes on the power play break out....I don't know if I like Brown, Richards and Kopitar and Williams, Gagne and Hunter as the 2nd unit?

Matt Barry said it best....the Kings have no identity...We aren't tough, we aren't fast (especially without Lewis, Richardson), we aren't that skilled, we don't cycle like we did last year...

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11-27-2011, 03:15 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The sad thing about today's loss is that aside from a dismal first period where nothing was happening, the Kings did seem to outplay the Hawks, but in the end, it still is a wasted effort that goes back to the same tired old problem that has become this teams' Achilles heel: they simply have no finish. Just watch most of LA's great scoring opportunities, they don't come from setup plays, it is from second chances or scrambles in front. Their offensive strategy is playing a game of chance.

If the Kings are to take that apparent next step, then they have to become an intimidating team. Clearly they won't intimidate teams offensively, but they have failed to do so physically as well. What good are those big bodies that Dean Lombardi has accumulated if they aren't going to be a physical presence? Rather, we see guys like Moreau taking needless slashing penalties costing the team valuable points in the standings.
This team is no way as physical as it was last year. I don't really look at hit totals, so I don't know if there's a difference there, but with my own eyes I can see it. The new hit rules have had an effect on this team, but that is no excuse for not playing physical.

The team as a whole needs to push the envelope more. There's no fire, and at the risk of sounding like AM, no urgency. They don't play like they want to win every game, and that starts with the leadership and coaching. It's every player's responsibility to prepare to play, and they do, but just being prepared isn't enough. To succeed in the NHL it takes that extra push from your coaches and team leaders to gain that extra edge. I don't see that right now.

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Old
11-27-2011, 03:21 AM
  #125
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Kings were a lot meaner with Simmonds, Clifford and Westgarth....hell, even Poni threw the body...

Now Simmonds is gone, Clifford is struggling, Westgarth barely plays and the size of Handzus and Poni is gone and the speed of Lewis and Richardson isn't in the line-up.

So we ain't tough and we ain't fast.

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