Don't get me wrong, I like Erik Cole, but this thread exist because the habs have lacked any player resembling a power forward for years, now that we have one he's vital to our needs and just what the Dr ordered, before his acquisition many fans claimed on here that size and toughness in the top 6 was never really an issue and was grossly exaggerated. Now that we have him, things have changed.
Don't get me wrong, I like Erik Cole, but this thread exist because the habs have lacked any player resembling a power forward for years, now that we have one he's vital to our needs and just what the Dr ordered, before his acquisition many fans claimed on here that size and toughness in the top 6 was never really an issue and was grossly exaggerated. Now that we have him, things have changed.
actually, what I recall from the toughness thread is we were lacking muscle on the 4th line according to some...
now that we see what Cole can bring, most in favor of muscles on the fourth line (forgot all those who talked about Rupp, Konopka, etc I guess) dont complain much anymore...
Don't get me wrong, I like Erik Cole, but this thread exist because the habs have lacked any player resembling a power forward for years, now that we have one he's vital to our needs and just what the Dr ordered, before his acquisition many fans claimed on here that size and toughness in the top 6 was never really an issue and was grossly exaggerated. Now that we have him, things have changed.
That's because most of the fans here associate size and toughness to people like George Laraque and Shawn Thornton.
now that we see what Cole can bring, most in favor of muscles on the fourth line (forgot all those who talked about Rupp, Konopka, etc I guess) dont complain much anymore...
guess things did change.
You're talking about 2 completely different needs with 2 completely different outcomes.
You guys made a bunch of excuses and brought in a bunch of stats( I have some posters in mind, I'll shut up about it for now) on why we didn't badly need a powerforward. We get a powerforward and it's all good now, the same would happen if we got muscle on the 4th line, obviously for different reasons. If Chris Niel or Shawn Thornton was playing for the Habs, I GUARANTEE we would have Chris Niel is ****ing awesome thread too.
That's because most of the fans here associate size and toughness to people like George Laraque and Shawn Thornton.
Not true. We needed size and toughness on the top 6, bottom 6 and on the back-end all together. It's the Gauthier defenders that put it all in the same basket. NOBODY ever said that they were fine with the bottom 6 when we signed Cole and nobody was pissed off that we signed Cole instead of a 4th liner either.
I don't think anyone in their right mind supported Darche on the PP, but I can understand Martin's thinking behind doing it; put a hard-nosed grinder down low to mess with the goalie. It just didn't happen to work out though.
I said this in the GDT last night: saying it was obvious to put Cole on the PP is a guess at best because there's no history to support the move, but it turned out to be a good guess so far and that's all it is.
Saying it was obvious is the luxury of us armchair coaches who happen to get a lucky guess every now and then.
EXACTLY.
Also, if memory serves me right, Darche had success on the PP last season. That's why JM stuck with it for a while this season. Coaches make incremental and systematic changes and they give changes time to work. Coaches generally have more patience than fans. Incidentally, lots of people here were already labelling Cole a bust, the worst UFA signing last summer after 5 games or so. Talk about patience... (And no, it was not because JM put Cole on the PP that the latter started playing well -- it was the other way around.)
Last edited by Poulet Kostopoulos: 11-21-2011 at 01:51 PM.
Not true. We needed size and toughness on the top 6, bottom 6 and on the back-end all together. It's the Gauthier defenders that put it all in the same basket. NOBODY ever said that they were fine with the bottom 6 when we signed Cole and nobody was pissed off that we signed Cole instead of a 4th liner either.
You know very well it is... Konopka is the name we saw the most from you guys so...
along with Neil probably, who EVERYONE agrees is a different type of player than Konopka.
You know very well it is... Konopka is the name we saw the most from you guys so...
along with Neil probably, who EVERYONE agrees is a different type of player than Konopka.
wait, WHAT? You don't agree that Niel and Konopka are players that would make our bottom 6 tougher? Yeah, one is good on face-off and the other is a tad better player, but their role are basically the same anyways.
I'm talking about the seprate needs on the top 6 and bottom 6 of the line-up.
Having Cole in the top 6 =/ having Niel on the 4th line. You said that since we had Cole people talked less about the 4th line, thus why I said you guys put everything in the same basket.
wait, WHAT? You don't agree that Niel and Konopka are players that would make our bottom 6 tougher? Yeah, one is good on face-off and the other is a tad better player, but their role are basically the same anyways.
I'm talking about the seprate needs on the top 6 and bottom 6 of the line-up.
Having Cole in the top 6 =/ having Niel on the 4th line. You said that since we had Cole people talked less about the 4th line, thus why I said you guys put everything in the same basket.
Who would you rather against Boston tonight as the 4th line centre? Nokelainen or Konopka (keeping in mind that Konopka has the better FO%)?
Nokelainen and it's not even a question.
Didn't we beat the Bruins twice already this year? I wonder how we managed to do that without Konopka and his super faceoff skills..
Konopka sucks. People have to stop bringing him up, it's embarrassing.
Don't get me wrong, I like Erik Cole, but this thread exist because the habs have lacked any player resembling a power forward for years, now that we have one he's vital to our needs and just what the Dr ordered, before his acquisition many fans claimed on here that size and toughness in the top 6 was never really an issue and was grossly exaggerated. Now that we have him, things have changed.
Actually, the problem starts when people attribute toughness due to size. We've heard the name of Penner thrown out quite frequently and he's by no stretch of the imagination tough. But he is a big fella, so uninformed people here were speaking of him. He has 0goals this year btw for those that wonder (2 assists in 14gp). What is really comical is some criticized AK and ordered Penner has a replacement which really shows how little they know.
We also heard some go crazy over the Steckel trade, and again, associated him with toughness because of his size.
A guy like Gionta is tough. Even DD is proving himself to have the same type of toughness, that despite his midget size, he isn't scared to crash the net.
Nobody was against bringing in PF, but this is Mtl, so even some of the guys that wanted one, still found a way to complain and say it either was too much money or that he's too old.
Personally, I thought it was a great signing. If we could have signed Jagr as well, I would have been as happy as one could be considering the market.
But to get back on track, I think the problem is when people think anybody over 6' is tough, and anybody under it isn't.
Martin went on record in asking how many goals Cole scored on the power play last season, he implied Darch outscored Cole. Checking stats saves you from buying the Hyperbole doled out by the coach.
Erik Cole was outstanding tonight. It was too bad he couldn't find the handle on that lead pass from Patches (But it was cool when they joked about it afterward). But Cole was the best Montreal player by a pretty good amount tonight. He could have had a hatty easily.
Martin went on record in asking how many goals Cole scored on the power play last season, he implied Darch outscored Cole. Checking stats saves you from buying the Hyperbole doled out by the coach.
From stats, Darche was far more effective than Cole on the PP last year. Cole had 8 points in substantial PP time, while Darche had 7 points in about 1/6th the amount of PP time (From the top of my head, the TOI may be a little off).
However, Cole has proved he belongs on our PP as he's consistently in our Top-3 forwards. Usually with a mix of Desharnais, Eller, Pacioretty and surprisingly, Travis Moen.
From stats, Darche was far more effective than Cole on the PP last year. Cole had 8 points in substantial PP time, while Darche had 7 points in about 1/6th the amount of PP time (From the top of my head, the TOI may be a little off).
However, Cole has proved he belongs on our PP as he's consistently in our Top-3 forwards. Usually with a mix of Desharnais, Eller, Pacioretty and surprisingly, Travis Moen.
anyone trying to compare Darche vs Cole and justify it in any capacity as JM did , well way over yonder ............
I mean we talking one guy with 46 career power play goals...the other has 3 career power play goals....
