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11-27-2011, 03:46 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Count me in dude. I agree with you 100% regarding your take on both Girardi and Staal. For some reason, Staal, perhaps because of his name and more famous(and better) brothers has gotten all of this unconditional love here and is way overrated on this forum. He doesn't have near the upside as an all around defenseman of a McDonagh or a Girardi who are both superior to Staal offensively. Is Staal a solid defensive defenseman? -YES! Would I be happy if he comes back healthy and regains his game and is part of our defensive core going forward?- YES! However, I would really like to see how this year plays out(especially if Staal does not return anytime soon) before I would make a judgement that we can indeed survive and even thrive defensively going forward w/o Staal.
If we can, I would consider moving him sometime down the road if and only if MDZ continues to play well and finds his offensive game, if and only if Erikson becomes a solid NHL defenseman and IF and only IF Mcilrath continues to develop and makes the team within 2 years. At that point in time, it would become a salary cap issue to move one of our defenseman and if all the above IFS come to fruition, I would definitely consider making Staal the out guy and move him in a package.
i dint see Staals offensive game gettig much better.I also thik McDonagh and Sauer have the potential to be better than Staal.Sauer only went 2nd round do to him having a past with injuries.Girardi,better offensively as well is better. Yeah,im not saying move Staal,but if everyone develops well,he can get NYR the big asset on the first line down the road.

My thread is ust a debate on the 2 players,i dont wanna trade anyone to be honest,but saying Staal can get us something good if he was to be moved. His name and draft position is a big reason.What different has Staal done than GHirardi or McDonagh or Sauer?

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11-27-2011, 03:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
First off, its Erixon. 2nd Why would we trade Staal when our 5th & 6th dman are a combination of Eminger, Woywitka, and Stralman?

I can't even begin to fathom all this trade Staal BS, or Staal is over rated. Ugh.
So tell me what makes Staal so much better than any other set of first pairing d-men? What makes Staal so special when the likes of Sauer,McDonagh and Girardi do the same and are all better offensively? Plead your case,cause I definitly want to hear this,lol

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11-27-2011, 03:51 PM
  #53
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Staal is better defensively than Sauer and McDonagh.

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11-27-2011, 03:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Mugless View Post
I could swear that Staal was an All-Star last season.
Mainly cause his name..Go ahed and look at his stats and tell me if there oh so all star worthy?i was shocked when he was an all star!

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11-27-2011, 03:54 PM
  #55
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This post is absurd.

First off, Girardi has finally put together (last year) one great, FULL year. Before that, he historically played great for half the year and mediocre-bad for the other half. It was always a tail of two halves for him. This year, he's been great the first half. Before we even begin to talk about overrated, underrated, etc. he needs to finish up the year as he's started it.

I don't think that is asking too much, as he showed last year that he can finally do it.

With that said, how can the OP even say that Staal is not missed? One of the reasons we are not getting as much pressure as we should is that we are missing his puck-moving skills greatly. Over the last few years, Staal has become an excellent puck mover. He's been fantastic getting the puck out of his zone (something Girardi has ALWAYS struggled with -- it's one of his few bad elements). He has a great first pass and he will rush the puck up the ice. Sauer has a great first pass, but can't rush the puck. Del Zotto can rush the puck, but doesn't have a great first pass.

We don't have a single player that can do both of those things. McDonagh may in the future, but he has neither Del Zotto's rushing skills nor Sauer's first pass as of right now.

Staal is TREMENDOUSLY missed. We have had to rely on our top 4 nearly exclusively. That is going to be extremely hard on those guys come the latter half of the season. Staal is a workhorse. Staal gets better as his minutes increase. If you don't think our defense is missing a guy who is elite defensively, above average offensively, and can eat more minutes than most d-men in the league... I really don't know what to say. Our defense has been great this year. But we are seeing our top 4 rode into the ground because there is just no trust in the bottom pairing (and for good reason - Eminger has been mediocre, Woywitka sucks, and Stralman is still an unknown).

The entire thought that Staal is somehow overrated and not missed is just ludicrous at best.

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11-27-2011, 03:56 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay8899 View Post
Mainly cause his name..Go ahed and look at his stats and tell me if there oh so all star worthy?i was shocked when he was an all star!
You're right. One of the best defensive d-men in the game who can put up 30+ points, eat minutes, etc. is not good enough to play in the All Star game.

I would expect posts like these from Fishie fans or Debbie fans. Rangers fans? No idea where something like this is coming from. Anyone who actually watches a game would know how valuable Staal is for our team and how much we are missing him.

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11-27-2011, 03:57 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
...I don't see why you're making such a big deal of this, other than to try and prove a point, which you're failing to do..
Listen hypocrite,your doing the exact same thing you say that Drew is so called doing..trying to plead your point so badly.there called opinions bud,your not right..He is pleading his case and opinion and has every right.Who are you to try and shut him down.

I was a member here about 8 yrs ago and for only a little do the fact i left cause of guys like you.If you notice i have 100 post appx in about 1 yr,theres a reason why.Everyone here hates when you tell them there worng. weel Zeneith,you are WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!


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11-27-2011, 03:57 PM
  #58
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funny because i think both Staal and Girardi were both underrated. Staal being underrated in so far as he's a number 1 level d-man in a vast majority of teams in the NHL while largely being considered only a number 1 on a handful of teams. Girardi because he's considered a 4 or bottom pairing guy by many fans, when i truly believe he's a top pairing guy on a chunk of NHL defenses and a serious second pairing guy on most playoff quality teams.

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11-27-2011, 04:01 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
You're right. One of the best defensive d-men in the game who can put up 30+ points, eat minutes, etc. is not good enough to play in the All Star game.

I would expect posts like these from Fishie fans or Debbie fans. Rangers fans? No idea where something like this is coming from. Anyone who actually watches a game would know how valuable Staal is for our team and how much we are missing him.
30 points,big deal man.Why cause I dont just agree with the masses like u and most all people.i dont feel i have to ,i have an opinion and will voice it.

and yeah,i dnt watch the games,im just a poser ranger fan,lol..Your a waste to debate with.Probably not even 21,haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Staal is better defensively than Sauer and McDonagh.
Ok,go take a look at McD and Sauers plus minus last year. Although Staal was playing against top line players,he also has 3 or 4 season under his belt as opposed to MCD and SAUER.

Mc Donagh and Sauer will be better and more valuable than Staal. Thats my OPINION,not a fact,but what i think.

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11-27-2011, 04:01 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
No I just have the ability to recognize greatness in a player. Staal is a great shutdown defenseman with a good offensive side.

Its kind of hard to compare Staal to his two elder brothers who both play offense.
If Staal was playing in Phoenix, you wouldn't know much about him. It's funny how two defensemen drafted after Staal, Letang(#62) and Yandle(#105) are both better defensemen than Staal!

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11-27-2011, 04:02 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by jay8899 View Post
So tell me what makes Staal so much better than any other set of first pairing d-men? What makes Staal so special when the likes of Sauer,McDonagh and Girardi do the same and are all better offensively? Plead your case,cause I definitly want to hear this,lol
On what planet is Sauer a better offensive defenseman than Staal?

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11-27-2011, 04:02 PM
  #62
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Can't wait to see these pairs later in the year:

Staal-Girardi
McD-Sauer
MDZ-Erixon

Eminger

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11-27-2011, 04:07 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
If Staal was playing in Phoenix, you wouldn't know much about him. It's funny how two defensemen drafted after Staal, Letang(#62) and Yandle(#105) are both better defensemen than Staal!
YUP,Sather likes Blood lines...Staal,Sauer,Hossa (through trade).Sure there are a few more ive forgotten..He also likes other teams first rounders that busted or didnt work out...Thank God Boyle did,i was glad for that trade.Not to get off topic

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11-27-2011, 04:14 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay8899 View Post
Mainly cause his name..Go ahed and look at his stats and tell me if there oh so all star worthy?i was shocked when he was an all star!
If you can't tell, you aren't watching hard enough. Or with this stat nonsense, simply not watching at all.

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11-27-2011, 04:15 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by jay8899 View Post
30 points,big deal man.Why cause I dont just agree with the masses like u and most all people.i dont feel i have to ,i have an opinion and will voice it.

and yeah,i dnt watch the games,im just a poser ranger fan,lol..Your a waste to debate with.Probably not even 21,haha.



Ok,go take a look at McD and Sauers plus minus last year. Although Staal was playing against top line players,he also has 3 or 4 season under his belt as opposed to MCD and SAUER.

Mc Donagh and Sauer will be better and more valuable than Staal. Thats my OPINION,not a fact,but what i think.
I agree with you 100%! There are too many fans on this forum who are head over heels in love with Marc Staal like he was the next coming of Larry Robinson and Serge Savard or something. He has a pedigree(see Torts) because of two more famous brothers who made the league and had great years right out of the gate and have won stanley cups. McDonagh(especially)
and Girardi both have more upside than Staal offensively and are his equals defensively.

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11-27-2011, 04:16 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay8899 View Post
30 points,big deal man.Why cause I dont just agree with the masses like u and most all people.i dont feel i have to ,i have an opinion and will voice it.

and yeah,i dnt watch the games,im just a poser ranger fan,lol..Your a waste to debate with.Probably not even 21,haha.
First off, it's "you're". My name is Jonathan. Not "a waste to debate with." If you are going to insult me, please do so using correct English. I mean, it's pretty damn hard to even read a post like this.

Second off, your opinion is wrong. It's to the contrary of reality. There is zero basis in reality for what you are spouting off here. It's absurdity. To sit there and denigrate Staal as you are doing is pretty shameful. It shows a real lack of knowledge about both Staal and the game of hockey. Again, something like this is what I would expect from a Deb or Fishie fan. Not from a "Rangers fan" who supposedly watches hockey.

I would implore you to actually watch Staal play. Go back and watch some past tapes. You clearly need some freshening up.

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11-27-2011, 04:18 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
If you can't tell, you aren't watching hard enough. Or with this stat nonsense, simply not watching at all.
Our friend has already brought out the plus/minus debate. Clearly someone who is just stat surfing. He is infatuated with points; Staal's actual game does not matter to him.

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11-27-2011, 04:19 PM
  #68
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This is fair:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
McDonagh(especially) and Girardi both have more upside than Staal offensively
This is 100%, undeniably, wrong:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
and are his equals defensively.

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11-27-2011, 04:20 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Staal is better defensively than Sauer and McDonagh.
Oh NO HE ISN'T! Staal is an absolute trainwreck when he pinches offensively constantly caught out of position while McDonagh who is a superior skater to Staal can get back in position easily.

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11-27-2011, 04:21 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Oh NO HE ISN'T! Staal is an absolute trainwreck when he pinches offensively constantly caught out of position while McDonagh who is a superior skater to Staal can get back in position easily.
Did you just say that Staal is not better defensively than either McDonagh or Sauer?

Just need to make sure I got that right before I comment back.

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11-27-2011, 04:22 PM
  #71
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I would just leave things as-is. I love the way this team (really, a 'team') is shaping up. Id like to see them add a goal-scorer but other than that, leave it alone.

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11-27-2011, 04:23 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
First off, it's "you're". My name is Jonathan. Not "a waste to debate with." If you are going to insult me, please do so using correct English. I mean, it's pretty damn hard to even read a post like this.

Second off, your opinion is wrong. It's to the contrary of reality. There is zero basis in reality for what you are spouting off here. It's absurdity. To sit there and denigrate Staal as you are doing is pretty shameful. It shows a real lack of knowledge about both Staal and the game of hockey. Again, something like this is what I would expect from a Deb or Fishie fan. Not from a "Rangers fan" who supposedly watches hockey.

I would implore you to actually watch Staal play. Go back and watch some past tapes. You clearly need some freshening up.
Staal makes lousy decisions, poor reads, falls down way too much, and gets caught out of position too frequently. I know what I'm watching and I'm not alone in my belief that he is grossly Overrated!

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11-27-2011, 04:25 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
I agree with you 100%! There are too many fans on this forum who are head over heels in love with Marc Staal like he was the next coming of Larry Robinson and Serge Savard or something. He has a pedigree(see Torts) because of two more famous brothers who made the league and had great years right out of the gate and have won stanley cups. McDonagh(especially)
and Girardi both have more upside than Staal offensively and are his equals defensively.
I agree..Drew,I think you are a genius man..I remember Larry robinson comparisons to when he got drafted.

Yes I mentioned Sauer cause last year i saw some good flashes of offensive talent.His rookie season did chip in a little offensively.

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11-27-2011, 04:25 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by jay8899 View Post
Listen hypocrite,your doing the exact same thing you say that Drew is so called doing..trying to plead your point so badly.there called opinions bud,your not right..He is pleading his case and opinion and has every right.Who are you to try and shut him down.

I was a member here about 8 yrs ago and for only a little do the fact i left cause of guys like you.If you notice i have 100 post appx in about 1 yr,theres a reason why.Everyone here hates when you tell them there worng. weel Zeneith,you are WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!
I would respond, but I seriously can barely read this.

I'll try to get through bits and pieces of it though.

- Hypocrite, eh? "You're wrong!!!!!!" Opinions aren't wrong. Guess what - they can be. And the "opinion" of Sauer/McDonagh being better defensively that Staal is dead wrong.

- +/-? Guess McDonagh and Sauer were better defensively that Nick Lidstrom last year based upon that line of thinking.

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Old
11-27-2011, 04:26 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
This is fair:



This is 100%, undeniably, wrong:
What, is your opinion gospel now?
Staal is undeniably overrated and wouldn't be better than a 2nd pairing guy on half the teams in the league.

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