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[Shocker] Weīll donīt acquire Weber or Suter!! Other Options?

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Old
11-26-2011, 04:05 PM
  #26
Spongolium*
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
You'd rather have voracek than suter?
Oh right, because acquiring this years biggest FA guarantee's that he will sign for your team. He's not worth 7 mil either.

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11-26-2011, 04:29 PM
  #27
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I'd like to say 7 mil for any defenseman is too rich for my blood...but realistically, we're paying Kimmo 6.5 as it is. Suter is a top 5, possibly Top 3 defenseman in the league (depending who you ask), he'd be worth that contract. I've been talking him up for the last 4 years, he's probably the most reliable/stable/rock defenseman i've seen...he just generally always seems to be on his game. He would bring some needed stability to this team defensively.

He's been my favorite defenseman to watch the last few years, he really seems to almost calm his team down defensively.

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Old
11-26-2011, 05:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Oh right, because acquiring this years biggest FA guarantee's that he will sign for your team. He's not worth 7 mil either.
no need to get sarcastic, buddy, i was sincerely asking your opinion.

i guess we just disagree then, because i fully think he's worth 7 million.

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11-26-2011, 07:26 PM
  #29
Ironmanrulez
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again: Sry for my bad english! But it must be very funny to laugh about it for some of you.

I want the fanbase to accept, that we donīt get Suter or Weber this offseason! They donīt fit in our team cap wise. And i bet some team will overpay them that big, that no contender can equal this bid!

So i ask for other options!

I like the idea of trading for a higher draft pick to get a really nhl ready dman with Top 2 upside. Or to aquire 2 rfa, ufa dman.

I hope its a bit more understandable than my first try

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11-26-2011, 09:53 PM
  #30
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Suter isn't a 7M defenseman. he's a product of one of the best defensive systems in the league. on this Flyers team he wouldn't be half as good as he is on Nashville. he's still a good dman yes, but worth 7M/year? ouch. no thanks.

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11-27-2011, 12:15 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by bauer View Post
Suter isn't a 7M defenseman. he's a product of one of the best defensive systems in the league. on this Flyers team he wouldn't be half as good as he is on Nashville. he's still a good dman yes, but worth 7M/year? ouch. no thanks.
He looked pretty damn good for the Americans a few short years ago

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Old
11-27-2011, 01:30 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bauer View Post
Suter isn't a 7M defenseman. he's a product of one of the best defensive systems in the league. on this Flyers team he wouldn't be half as good as he is on Nashville. he's still a good dman yes, but worth 7M/year? ouch. no thanks.
yeah, the defensive system that has made gotten past the 1st round of the playoffs once has made suter look like an elite defenseman.

nashville plays a very tight defensive game, but that's just a ridiculous claim.

if anything, suter has made the system one of the best in the league.

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11-27-2011, 03:24 AM
  #33
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I'm weary to see how good each defenseman is individually.

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11-27-2011, 02:15 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
yeah, the defensive system that has made gotten past the 1st round of the playoffs once has made suter look like an elite defenseman.

nashville plays a very tight defensive game, but that's just a ridiculous claim.

if anything, suter has made the system one of the best in the league.
as i said, he's GOOD, just not worth 7M. that kind of money you only pay for the best of the best elite defensemen, like Lidstrom and Chara, etc. and Suter is nowhere near that group. 7M is more than Keith and the same as Doughty, and i'd take both of those guys over Suter anyday.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:32 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Id suggest watching some hockey
I do, and Suter is still no 7 million dollar defenseman.

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Old
11-27-2011, 02:36 PM
  #36
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I think we should look to the draft for a potential #1 Dman. A lot of the potential #1 Dmen right now were drafted in the mid to late first round. Some examples Karlsson, Runblad, Gormley, and Blum. Or we could try trading up to get someone like Larsson, OEL, Gudbranson, or Hamilton. This draft is supposed to be deep on Dmen, so hopefully we can find our potential #1.

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11-27-2011, 03:19 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by cheesesteak View Post
I think we should look to the draft for a potential #1 Dman. A lot of the potential #1 Dmen right now were drafted in the mid to late first round. Some examples Karlsson, Runblad, Gormley, and Blum. Or we could try trading up to get someone like Larsson, OEL, Gudbranson, or Hamilton. This draft is supposed to be deep on Dmen, so hopefully we can find our potential #1.
Doubt we get guys like Dumba, Murray, Trouba, or Reilly, but it isn't inconceivable to pick someone like Reinhardt, Koekkek, Maata, Ebert (unlikely but possible).

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11-27-2011, 04:03 PM
  #38
Krishna
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Count me in the boat that doesn't think that Suter is a 7m defenseman
Id say anywhere from 5.5-6.8 depending on the length of the deal

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11-27-2011, 05:43 PM
  #39
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I'm liking this title. Still doesn't really make sense. I think it means we shouldn't try to get them??? Anyway, I'd definitely be down for trading to acquire a higher pick. Getting any first round dman in this draft is pretty good. There's obviously a difference between the Maata's and the Murray's of this draft class, but they're still all good future top 4's. Even Matheson (projected to go in the 2nd) could still be a good pick for us. I'm not saying to just take a dman though because of the luck we had in this draft with Couturier dropping to us.

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11-27-2011, 09:46 PM
  #40
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Sure we should try to aquire both of them! But i donīt agree on most of the flyers fans, that it is automatic.... Everywhere i go, i read, the flyers will go after Suter or Weber or both of them. And itīs 100% sure, that we will get them, like before this season with Bryzgalov....

Sure if weīre ready to overpay both of them like we do it with Bryz we will get them both. But who must leave instead of them? Cap wise there is not much space and our high cap players are really no move players (Timonen -> age; Pronger -> age, injuries, contract; Briere -> Contract, NTC, Age; Bryzgalov -> Contract, Performance).

So how in hell can we be so sure we get on of them? Not two mention both of them?

IMO itīs a bit too much of wishfull thinking. So i want the community to become a little bit more realistic. So i ask the question about other options.

simple as that

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Old
11-27-2011, 09:46 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
You want to trade an RFA voracek for a UFA suter.
If I could do that deal right now and have the next 7 months to convince him that he belongs in Philly long term then I'd certainly trade Voracek for him. After the season, his "rights" would only be worth a 2nd rnd pick IMO. Think of it this way, that would be like us getting Ryan Suter + Sean Couturier + Nick Cousins all for just Jeff Carter. I'd be all over that like stink on a Pens fan. (j/k but it's still funny, lol).


Oh, and BTW, I said it beore and I'll say it again, I'd offer Suter 75 mil for a 10 year deal to play in Philly. Suter is by far the BEST defensive dman in the entire league. in any 2v1 you'd want HIM over anybody else including Timonen, Pronger, Chara and Lidstrom. Suter is one of the ten best dmen in the league and probably in the 6-7 range (Lidstrom, Pronger, & chara for the time being, Weber, and probably one of Doughty and/or Yandle are above him but that's probably it).


Last edited by phlocky: 11-27-2011 at 09:57 PM.
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Old
11-27-2011, 10:05 PM
  #42
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Two more affordable UFAs that I really enjoy the style of play of are Boychuk and Gleason. Boychuk I would assume may cost in the 2.5-3.5 range, and Gleason in the 3.5-4.5 range. Obviously neither will be future #1's, but both are solid defensive defensemen with a nasty side that'd fit in great in O&B. We could roll out:

Timonen - Boychuk
Pronger - Coburn
Meszaros - Gleason

next season, that'd be ridiculously awesome. Then we could trade up in the draft and snag a top D prospect, and draft defense for the first several picks, and hopefully post-Pronger/Timonen end up with:

prospect-Coburn
prospect-Boychuk
Meszaros/Gleason/Gus-Gleason/Gus/prospect


RFAs are just pipe dreams really, but being able to steal Weber, EJ, Hedman, Goligoski, or Karlsson would thrill me.

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11-27-2011, 10:15 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Two more affordable UFAs that I really enjoy the style of play of are Boychuk and Gleason. Boychuk I would assume may cost in the 2.5-3.5 range, and Gleason in the 3.5-4.5 range. Obviously neither will be future #1's, but both are solid defensive defensemen with a nasty side that'd fit in great in O&B. We could roll out:

Timonen - Boychuk
Pronger - Coburn
Meszaros - Gleason

next season, that'd be ridiculously awesome. Then we could trade up in the draft and snag a top D prospect, and draft defense for the first several picks, and hopefully post-Pronger/Timonen end up with:

prospect-Coburn
prospect-Boychuk
Meszaros/Gleason/Gus-Gleason/Gus/prospect


RFAs are just pipe dreams really, but being able to steal Weber, EJ, Hedman, Goligoski, or Karlsson would thrill me.
Me personally, I'd want Meszaros out of that lineup and insert Gustafsson in his place. We'd still have Bartulis, Marshall and MAB that we could bring up/use as the 7th dman and for when injuries occure.

The Isles need a top 4 dman, I say we trade them Meszaros for either a 2012 + 2013 2nd rnd picks or just a 2014 1st. Then I'd go ahead and trade Carle to the Canes for Kabs and a 2nd in 2012. Yes Kabs is having a bad bad year but if we could get a 2nd for Carle and still end up with someone just about as effective (or more appropriately IN-effective) in his own zone in Kaberle then I'd do it. Hell, we could just bury Kabs in the AHL if he sucks that bad next year.

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11-27-2011, 10:35 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Me personally, I'd want Meszaros out of that lineup and insert Gustafsson in his place. We'd still have Bartulis, Marshall and MAB that we could bring up/use as the 7th dman and for when injuries occure.

The Isles need a top 4 dman, I say we trade them Meszaros for either a 2012 + 2013 2nd rnd picks or just a 2014 1st. Then I'd go ahead and trade Carle to the Canes for Kabs and a 2nd in 2012. Yes Kabs is having a bad bad year but if we could get a 2nd for Carle and still end up with someone just about as effective (or more appropriately IN-effective) in his own zone in Kaberle then I'd do it. Hell, we could just bury Kabs in the AHL if he sucks that bad next year.

No Kaberle...he's useless.

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11-27-2011, 10:38 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Me personally, I'd want Meszaros out of that lineup and insert Gustafsson in his place. We'd still have Bartulis, Marshall and MAB that we could bring up/use as the 7th dman and for when injuries occure.

The Isles need a top 4 dman, I say we trade them Meszaros for either a 2012 + 2013 2nd rnd picks or just a 2014 1st. Then I'd go ahead and trade Carle to the Canes for Kabs and a 2nd in 2012. Yes Kabs is having a bad bad year but if we could get a 2nd for Carle and still end up with someone just about as effective (or more appropriately IN-effective) in his own zone in Kaberle then I'd do it. Hell, we could just bury Kabs in the AHL if he sucks that bad next year.
Perhaps package Mez and our 1st (or a 2nd) to move up in the draft as a draft day deal. Do the same with Bob, and go hard after Montoya or someone like that in FA. We'll see. I'm probably NHL12ing it up too hard

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11-27-2011, 11:07 PM
  #46
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I don't see homer getting rid of Mez and Carle. I think that's just wishful thinking for some of you.

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11-27-2011, 11:22 PM
  #47
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I don't see homer getting rid of Mez and Carle. I think that's just wishful thinking for some of you.
With the signing of Coburn we don't have a lot of capspace next season. JVR is also entering his new crazy contract. So honestly the chances of Carle coming back next season are slim. Unless they want to gut the offense again.

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11-27-2011, 11:40 PM
  #48
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With the signing of Coburn we don't have a lot of capspace next season. JVR is also entering his new crazy contract. So honestly the chances of Carle coming back next season are slim. Unless they want to gut the offense again.
They could do that if they wanted. I'd prefer them not to lose Voracek, I still think he's going to be a very good player. Carle and Jagr (maybe) should be off the books next season. I also don't agree with moving Mez, but if there's a good offer on the table...who knows?

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11-27-2011, 11:48 PM
  #49
phlocky
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Perhaps package Mez and our 1st (or a 2nd) to move up in the draft as a draft day deal. Do the same with Bob, and go hard after Montoya or someone like that in FA. We'll see. I'm probably NHL12ing it up too hard
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
I don't see homer getting rid of Mez and Carle. I think that's just wishful thinking for some of you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
With the signing of Coburn we don't have a lot of capspace next season. JVR is also entering his new crazy contract. So honestly the chances of Carle coming back next season are slim. Unless they want to gut the offense again.

Sa Cyred is right IMO, we won't have all 3 of Coburn, Meszaros and Carle on the team next year, I just can't see us doing it cap-wise. Coburn is already signed so he stays and Meszaros still has a contract after this year so unless he gets traded Carle will be let go for nothing. This is what I'd REALLY like to see happen:

Just before the draft, trade Meszaros + Bob + our 1st or both 2nd's to move up in the draft to around the #10 pick (probably over paying but I'd like one of the potential franchise dmen available in the 2012 draft class). Then resign Carle at about 4 mil (he'll most likely get a raise even if WE don't believe he has earned it ) and maybe Nabby as a backup for Bryz.

run with the following:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jake Voracek ($3.000m)
Harry Z ($1.100m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($4.000m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)
Morgan Rielly ($0.900m) (1st rnd pick in 2012 )

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / E Nabokov ($1.000m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,033,373; BONUSES: $5,355,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,266,627

Bolded = players that we signed or resigned. RED = the player we took with the 10th OA in the 2012 draft. We'd also have about 7.5 mil in cap space + whatever the cap rises to add in dealine deal players or to bring back Jagr.

If Rielly looks really good we make Lilja the 7th dman. If not we send him back to juniors and bring up one of Marshall/MAB/Bartulis.


Last edited by phlocky: 11-27-2011 at 11:57 PM.
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Old
11-28-2011, 12:02 AM
  #50
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IF the Preds don't resign Suter or IF the Preds don't agree to a contract ahead of time w/ Weber, I'd assume that means they really cannot afford to sign them both.

If Weber is available as a restricted free agent, I would go hard after Weber, offer sheeting him @ the max cap hit allowable that still puts us in @ the level of compensation for 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd (probably like 7.8M or so). I would offer him a 7 year deal... maybe more. I would then max front-load that deal so that the Preds would need to pay Weber 13.5M for each of the first 3 years of the deal if they were to match. If you could get Weber for that offer sheet, you'd be set. A core of Giroux, JVR, Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, Read, Weber going forward would be incredible. Plus you'd still have all of your picks this year in a very deep draft.

If Weber isn't available & Suter is available as an unrestricted free agent, I'd go hard after him.

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