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Re-signing Josh Gorges (All Gorges contract talk here)

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Old
11-27-2011, 09:15 PM
  #26
AcadiaAxeMan
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+10, 10 pts, 10 ESP in 24 games!~!~

He is worth every cent (at the super-inflated rate for pro athlete's when stupid people pay $$$ for tickets that makes these athletes Gods??) Make sense?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...me=points&pg=2



Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
So people complain about the Gionta, Gomez, Cam, Gill, Hamr, Markov contracts but want to give Gorges $4M long term?

If he wants 4, I tell him to go elsewhere. Gorges should get $2.7-3.3M. If he wants 4, he needs to contribute a hell of a lot more offensively.

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11-27-2011, 09:16 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Yes.
You're making your own crap up. I've never said that it would be cheaper for another GM. Show me where in my text, I dare you...

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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Unless he re-injures his knee, it will cost a hell of a lot more to sign Gorges this summer than it would have last summer, especially if Gauthier is still running the show.

Gorges was hurt by the contract offers this past summer, especially after seeing the Habs sign Markov, who was coming from three serious injuries including two similar knee surgeries to his own, get signed to a lucrative three year deal.

He has too much class to say anything publicly but don't be surprised if he listens to offers this summer and if he does, that's not a good sign for the Habs.

They could have signed him at fair market value this summer, they'll have to overpay next summer. Poor asset management.

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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Pretty sure Gorges was coming off a very serious injury and surgery, and I seem to remember most fans being wary of both Gorges and Markov's health. How can you justify blaming PG when he showed caution towards Gorges (who is a lesser player than Markov) and in contrast, desperate to keep Markov (who was possibly the best defenseman at risk of being UFA). Would you have done something differently considering the risk of both players return of hockey and would you have chosen to give both Gorges and Markov long term commitment or pick Gorges over Markov? Those are some tough pills to swallow and I'm willing to bet even Pierre Gauthier himself lost a lot of sleep over.

I agree with what he did. This team will live or die with Markov. They can replace a player of Josh Gorges caliber, but I hope it doesn't come to that.
Let me ask you an honest question here: what risk is bigger?
  1. Markov: coming off three major surgeries, including two to the same knee, on a 3 year 17,25M deal; or
  2. Gorges: played 7 years on one leg (blew his ligament while in Kelowna), who never missed a game after getting a slapshot behind the head, after one knee surgery, on a 3 year, $8-9M deal.
The reason why I'm picking those figures is because I've spoken to Gorges myself and he laughed out loud at the so-called rumour from Team 990 to the effect that he was asking $4M per season, saying they never went close to that ball park.

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11-27-2011, 09:58 PM
  #28
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Looking for comparables for Gorges... how about Nick Schultz in Minnesota? Average sized, minimal offence, but heavily relied upon for defence? He got 3.5mil per for 6yrs in 2008. In 2012, I could see Gorges getting 4mil per for the same term.

And now for something completely different (sorry other posters!):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You're making your own crap up. I've never said that it would be cheaper for another GM. Show me where in my text, I dare you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Unless he re-injures his knee, it will cost a hell of a lot more to sign Gorges this summer than it would have last summer, especially if Gauthier is still running the show.

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11-27-2011, 10:06 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
And now for something completely different (sorry other posters!):
I see what you're saying here. Another Habs' GM. I thought you meant a GM of another team...

Because Gorges is not happy about the way the negotiations went and the relationship is far from perfect. If it's another GM at the helm for the Habs, I'm pretty sure Gorges would even sign before July 1st. Unless an overpayment, I'm not sure the same could be said with Gauthier as GM. That's why.

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11-27-2011, 10:06 PM
  #30
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If Gorges goes, he goes. Worse things have happened to the Habs over the years. He's not Patrick Roy ... or Andrei Markov.

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11-27-2011, 10:15 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
So people complain about the Gionta, Gomez, Cam, Gill, Hamr, Markov contracts but want to give Gorges $4M long term?

If he wants 4, I tell him to go elsewhere. Gorges should get $2.7-3.3M. If he wants 4, he needs to contribute a hell of a lot more offensively.
He's on pace for 34-points this year. And he's already a +10.

Gorges is the man. I don't know what else to tell you, pal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
If Gorges goes, he goes. Worse things have happened to the Habs over the years. He's not Patrick Roy ... or Andrei Markov.
Sweet. Let Subban go. Let Price go. Let Plekanec go.

Might as well.

They are no Patrick Roy or Andrei Markov.


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11-28-2011, 07:56 AM
  #32
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$16M/4yrs is a starting point for me. If Gorges wants additional security on a longer term deal, I'd be fine with that. $25M/7yrs, say. Shouldn't be too difficult from the team's side of things at this point. More down to what the player wants and if his side believes they can grow his value even further over the course of the season.

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11-28-2011, 09:25 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You're making your own crap up. I've never said that it would be cheaper for another GM. Show me where in my text, I dare you...

Let me ask you an honest question here: what risk is bigger?
  1. Markov: coming off three major surgeries, including two to the same knee, on a 3 year 17,25M deal; or
  2. Gorges: played 7 years on one leg (blew his ligament while in Kelowna), who never missed a game after getting a slapshot behind the head, after one knee surgery, on a 3 year, $8-9M deal.
The reason why I'm picking those figures is because I've spoken to Gorges myself and he laughed out loud at the so-called rumour from Team 990 to the effect that he was asking $4M per season, saying they never went close to that ball park.
Huuuuuuuuge gorges fan here...love that you spoke to Gorges in person, and so...we have a shot of signing him for below 4mil/year? Or all of that will change now? I'd sign him no matter what. All players make way too much anyway.

I'm still furious over the fact that he wasn't signed to at least 3-4 years last summer.

Up to me...$3mil to 3,75mil/year for 5 seasons.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 11-28-2011 at 09:39 AM.
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11-28-2011, 09:34 AM
  #34
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Sorry, I can't see Gorges making $4m. I think he fits in with Rob Scuderi & Nick Schultz of the D world - average sized defensemen who are strong defensively. Scuderi has a $3,4m cap hit. Schultz $3,5m. Gorges at 4 years, $14m ($3,5m cap hit) is right for him. Hopefully, we get it done.

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11-28-2011, 09:37 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
If Gorges goes, he goes. Worse things have happened to the Habs over the years. He's not Patrick Roy ... or Andrei Markov.
Sorry for this...'cause I love reading your posts! (incl. your off-topic posts like your Mensa one!).

But...had to chirp in here with the bold part!! (had to!).

Patrick Roy: as a Hab...Stanley Cups in 1986 and 1993, and...Cup Final in 1989. Gave lots of bragging rights to us Hab fans.

Markov: this is gonna be fun!, well...Markov is all about ''can't any of you remember how good he is/was?!'', ''he's one of the best dmen out there'' (yeah, on the injury list), ''his across the ice passes in PP are out of this world'' (I agree, but still...he's never around to make them). Markov is not Raymond Bourque, Chelios, etc...Markov is a poor man's version of Lidstrom cerabral (but can't even come close to staying healthy like Lidstrom can/does). Markov...5,75mil/year and has not helped our Habs for 3 seasons now. He better stay healthy this time or else the 5,75mil/year for next 2 seasons should go to someone else.



I'd take another Gorges over never-there-Markov (doesn't matter how good some of you htink he is...what's the point when he is never there...not even there for the 2 team photo shoots!!!).

Gorges-Subban
Campoli-Gorges
Spacek-Gill
Emelin
Diaz
Weber
St-Denis
Markov (injured as usual and still collecting $5,75mil/year...season after season after season...).

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11-28-2011, 09:55 AM
  #36
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I think people are overreacting here. Part of the reason the management wanted character guys and quality locker room players is due to there ability to bond. Play like a team. Gorges is close with a lot of players on the squad, guys like Price who will likely be here a long time. Think of it like this. If you had the opportunity to make money and play with the team and people you love versus making similar money and playing with all new people... imo it's a no-brainer.

PS: All the people ragging on Markov (bandwagon fans) are going to be on his dick when he comes back and plays the way Markov plays. Book it. Ragging on a player is easy when they're injured but it just makes you look silly when they come back and start killing it. I'm sure some people said the same about Cole or even Pacioretty when they got injured.

It's easy to rip on a guy who can't play a game right now, but when he does the crow will be available by the kilo.


Last edited by neofury*: 11-28-2011 at 10:00 AM.
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11-28-2011, 11:25 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CammerScores View Post
Sorry, I can't see Gorges making $4m. I think he fits in with Rob Scuderi & Nick Schultz of the D world - average sized defensemen who are strong defensively. Scuderi has a $3,4m cap hit. Schultz $3,5m. Gorges at 4 years, $14m ($3,5m cap hit) is right for him. Hopefully, we get it done.
I like those comps, but Schultz and Scuderi signed their contracts in 2008 and 2009, when the cap was around $57mil. Now it's $64mil, and may go up again.

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11-28-2011, 12:28 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I like those comps, but Schultz and Scuderi signed their contracts in 2008 and 2009, when the cap was around $57mil. Now it's $64mil, and may go up again.
Indeed (also add Zbynek Michalek svp), plus there is usually a bit of a markup in Montreal in general. (Taxes, stuff like that matter). $4M is "fair" in today's (or tomorrow's) market IMHO. Also depends on how bloodthirsty he/his agent want to be... it's not shaping up to be a fabulous free agent crop, and in the off chance that Gorges can finish the year with something like a straight extrapolation of his current stats on his end-of-year tally, he might be able to find a homerun on the open market. The Komisarek and Redden and Finger and Wisniewski and other contracts which blow "fair" away are out there too. Conversely, there could be a CBA chill on the market and Gorges' lack of sex appeal (size) could keep him from getting any of those homerun offers. But it would be awfully nice if we just didn't have to take the chance. If $4M is even a little more than fair, so be it, it could be worth the extra just to retire the risk.

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11-28-2011, 02:24 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Indeed (also add Zbynek Michalek svp), plus there is usually a bit of a markup in Montreal in general. (Taxes, stuff like that matter). $4M is "fair" in today's (or tomorrow's) market IMHO. Also depends on how bloodthirsty he/his agent want to be... it's not shaping up to be a fabulous free agent crop, and in the off chance that Gorges can finish the year with something like a straight extrapolation of his current stats on his end-of-year tally, he might be able to find a homerun on the open market. The Komisarek and Redden and Finger and Wisniewski and other contracts which blow "fair" away are out there too. Conversely, there could be a CBA chill on the market and Gorges' lack of sex appeal (size) could keep him from getting any of those homerun offers. But it would be awfully nice if we just didn't have to take the chance. If $4M is even a little more than fair, so be it, it could be worth the extra just to retire the risk.
I think Gorges would find a lot of suitors as a UFA, may even get 4 mil/year over 4-5 years.

I would hope that since he likes it here, and we want him as part of the leadership group we can get a bit of a home town discount like 17.5 over 5 years(3.5 mil cap hit). My initial offer would be 5 years 16.5 mil.

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11-28-2011, 02:26 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
He's on pace for 34-points this year. And he's already a +10.

Gorges is the man. I don't know what else to tell you, pal.


Sweet. Let Subban go. Let Price go. Let Plekanec go.

Might as well.

They are no Patrick Roy or Andrei Markov.

You know on pace for and actual results aren't the same thing. Gorges basically has zero hope in reaching 34 points.

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11-28-2011, 02:37 PM
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You know on pace for and actual results aren't the same thing. Gorges basically has zero hope in reaching 34 points.
Yeah, I think his production will drop once Spacek, Markov and Campoli are back.

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11-28-2011, 03:13 PM
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Montreal can unquestionably afford him regardless of whatever comes up by the end of the season. Montreal could win on the Zach Parise sweepstakes and still afford him.

It's all about what sweater Gorges wants to wear. He's in the Komisarek position.

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11-28-2011, 09:11 PM
  #43
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Huuuuuuuuge gorges fan here...love that you spoke to Gorges in person, and so...we have a shot of signing him for below 4mil/year? Or all of that will change now? I'd sign him no matter what. All players make way too much anyway.

I'm still furious over the fact that he wasn't signed to at least 3-4 years last summer.

Up to me...$3mil to 3,75mil/year for 5 seasons.
Gauthier could have signed him fairly cheap and chose to "play it safe" with Gorges while taking a much bigger gamble on the bigger fish Markov. Time will tell if that pays off.

In the mean time, have a couple of reads for you if you're a Gorges' fan. Great guy. He, Duncan Keith, Carey Price, Andrew Ladd and a few others often rent ice in the summer here.

Josh Gorges’ signing: the good and the bad

We didn’t get close to that. – Josh Gorges

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11-28-2011, 09:49 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Gauthier could have signed him fairly cheap and chose to "play it safe" with Gorges while taking a much bigger gamble on the bigger fish Markov. Time will tell if that pays off.

In the mean time, have a couple of reads for you if you're a Gorges' fan. Great guy. He, Duncan Keith, Carey Price, Andrew Ladd and a few others often rent ice in the summer here.

Josh Gorges’ signing: the good and the bad

We didn’t get close to that. – Josh Gorges
IF he "played it safe" with Markov he either had to give him 7 mil for 1 year or let him walk as a UFA.

Gorges was a RFA...apples and oranges.

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11-28-2011, 11:25 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
IF he "played it safe" with Markov he either had to give him 7 mil for 1 year or let him walk as a UFA.

Gorges was a RFA...apples and oranges.
How do you know the numbers? What we've heard what that Markov wanted 3 years, Habs offered 2. Guess who won? At that risk, I'm still not yet convinced that letting him walk wouldn't be the better option. Again, time will tell. Here's hoping that I'm wrong otherwise, we're pretty much screwed.

Also true that Gorges was RFA and Markov UFA. But Gorges will be UFA at the end of the season and could also walk free.

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11-28-2011, 11:50 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think Gorges would find a lot of suitors as a UFA, may even get 4 mil/year over 4-5 years.

I would hope that since he likes it here, and we want him as part of the leadership group we can get a bit of a home town discount like 17.5 over 5 years(3.5 mil cap hit). My initial offer would be 5 years 16.5 mil.
If there's a player that would give a hometown discount it's Gorges (pretty please!). But...I'm afraid (so afraid) that he may leave because Habs took a risk with Markov and only gave Gorges 1 year...what a slap to the face of a humble warrior who has done so much for our Habs (if I were Gorges I'd feel insulted but time heals and I'm sure he's so proud to be a Hab and that he loves/respects Hab fans...he even says things like ''Hab fans deserve way better'' when we lose 3 in a row, gotta respect Gorges). In the last 3 seasons Gorges has done so much for our Habs, meanwhile...Markov has always been injured (not Markov's fault? not our fault either that he's so fragile/jinxed and just never there to help our Habs...Markov=wait, wait,wait, and more wait, and then...quickly another injury and then way more waiting and waiting...fed up of waiting for his next injury ).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Gauthier could have signed him fairly cheap and chose to "play it safe" with Gorges while taking a much bigger gamble on the bigger fish Markov. Time will tell if that pays off.

In the mean time, have a couple of reads for you if you're a Gorges' fan. Great guy. He, Duncan Keith, Carey Price, Andrew Ladd and a few others often rent ice in the summer here.

Josh Gorgesí signing: the good and the bad

We didnít get close to that. Ė Josh Gorges
Huge thanks for the articles!!

''Play it safe'' (when signing Markov to 3 years and only giving Gorges 1 year) : more like ''play it dumb''.

I can't fully bash management...yet (loved gutsy Eller+Schultz for Halak deal), since they still have a chance to sign Gorges AND THEY BETTER ****ING SIGN HIM.

This article is exactly how I feel towards Gorges' staying or leaving:
http://habsterix.wordpress.com/2011/...d-and-the-bad/

I really really hope Gorges wants to stay in Montreal.
I'm also hoping Price will have a say in it since they're very good friends on the team (from what I know).
I could really really see Gorges (one day) lifting a Cup and I hope it's with his buddy Price and our Habs. Gorges has such a great attitude and huge heart and that's the kind of player that gives me goosebumps when finally seeing them lift a Cup ('cause they deserve it so much and worked so hard for it).

I'd be so down if Gorges left...and I'd be very very depressed if he went to the Leafs and/or especially the Bruins.

I will really hate management if they let Gorges go (and it'll be the first time...I agreed when they let Streit, Souray,etc, go, but they better find a ****ing way to keep Gorges). You don't let a warrior like Gorges go. You just don't do that.

Thinking about the possibility of Gorges' leaving is still making me angry that management didn't sign him last summer. Gorges has done so much for our Habs. So much. Time to get him under a long-term contract. If they can sign him in January 2012 they better hurry up.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 11-29-2011 at 12:06 AM.
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11-29-2011, 08:24 AM
  #47
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We need him

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11-29-2011, 10:51 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I like those comps, but Schultz and Scuderi signed their contracts in 2008 and 2009, when the cap was around $57mil. Now it's $64mil, and may go up again.
Yes Roulin, people always ignore that fact when discussing contracts.

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11-29-2011, 12:37 PM
  #49
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Gorges should make 4m easily. Thats about 6% (1/16th) of the cap yet he is easily a top 12 player (and a good top4 dman with the famed intangibles (even if he's never been captain)).

I'd say 3m to 4m is underpayement, 4m to 4.9m is what we should expect and 5m+ would be overpayement. As a UFA he might get 5m+.

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11-30-2011, 02:52 PM
  #50
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Is it possible that Canadiens cannot sign Gorges before January 1st 2012 ?

Maybe I'm wrong, but there's a mention of this in the CBA that you cannot extend a player on a one year contrat until january 1st.

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