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How many games for Pacioretty? [UPDATE: 3-game suspension]

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:39 AM
  #726
Mike8
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
wether he looked directly at him or not doesnt matter... what is hard to believe though is (the was is head is positionned) that he didnt see two red jerseys, Gorges and Pacc...
Not really. He may have had an eye on the net since he was about to take a shot. I don't see what reason Letang would have to lie, anyway.

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11-29-2011, 04:40 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Looks to me like he looked at Gorges.
No matter who he looked directly at but Im pretty sure he saw Pacioretty. Unless Letang's peripheral vision is about 20 degree or something, no way Pacioretty was in his blind side. The hit was more a face to face hit. Even their skates are parallel so how can a face to face hit be on the blindside?

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11-29-2011, 04:43 AM
  #728
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11-29-2011, 04:47 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
But he could have not shoot the puck and put his head down since he knew a hit was "imminent" (Shanny's word). See what you missed there?
Oh wait you did watch it. Selective hearing much? Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah he knew a hit was imminent blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
If he didn't shoot and thus lowering his head, it wouldn't have been a hit to the head. It would have been body to body or shoulder to shoulder hit. It's the fact that he took the shot anyway, making his head vulnerable (even when he knew a hit was coming), that it became a hit to the head.
It wouldnt of been a hit to the head if Pac didnt hit him in the head...

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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
There was no Hab in a position (and at a speed) to make a hit, except Max. The video showed this clearly.

Letang knew a hit was coming, and Max was the only Hab who was in the position to deliver a hit. Max was at 2 O'clock and Letang saw him.
Max can hit him all he wants. He can send him to the hospital into a coma if he can get him good enough. The problem is not that Max hit Letang. The problem is he hit his head, maybe he simply missed, but he hit his head and only his head. 6 inches to the left and great hit Max, great job, do it agian next time.


Last edited by Mike8: 11-29-2011 at 04:54 AM.
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11-29-2011, 04:55 AM
  #730
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It wouldnt of been a hit to the head if Pac didnt hit him in the head...
Oh please, stop with the smart ass talk.

Try to understand his point. We all know Max hit Letang's head. His ****ing nose is broken. The first point of contact was the head because Letang was leaning forward after the shot.

If you think that isn't the case and think that Pacioretty deliberately target Letang's head, then its your opinion.

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11-29-2011, 04:58 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
No matter who he looked directly at but Im pretty sure he saw Pacioretty. Unless Letang's peripheral vision is about 20 degree or something, no way Pacioretty was in his blind side. The hit was more a face to face hit. Even their skates are parallel so how can a face to face hit be on the blindside?
It doesnt have to be blindside to be against rule 48 this season. Its more about the head being principal point of contact.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

No wonder everyone doesnt like Shanny, people commenting dont even know the rule they are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Oh please, stop with the smart ass talk.

Try to understand his point. We all know Max hit Letang's head. His ****ing nose is broken. The first point of contact was the head because Letang was leaning forward after the shot.

If you think that isn't the case and think that Pacioretty deliberately target Letang's head, then its your opinion.
I never said he deliberately targeted Letang's head and said he may have just missed.

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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Oh please, stop with the smart ass talk.

Try to understand his point. We all know Max hit Letang's head. His ****ing nose is broken. The first point of contact was the head because Letang was leaning forward after the shot.

If you think that isn't the case and think that Pacioretty deliberately target Letang's head, then its your opinion.
And i said that because Shanny specifically says and shows how Letang's head does not change position much. Watch the explanation people, it answers many questions.

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11-29-2011, 05:01 AM
  #732
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Thanks to the mods for organizing my posts for me btw.

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Old
11-29-2011, 05:21 AM
  #733
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End result is that the main point of contact was the head. Geez people the guy had a broken nose. 3 games for Pac is fine with me. Now if the league can be consequent for the rest, that would be great for me.

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11-29-2011, 05:24 AM
  #734
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I thought shanny was doing an excellent job in the beginning, then something happened, Don Cherry, Marty Brodeur and others came in and said he was going over board when really he wasn't. He was doing exactly what he should have been.

I'm of the thoughts these aren't Shanny's decisions he have been given a direction by the league, no matter who is charge Shanny, Campbell, the result is the same.

I'd normally have np with this being a suspension if his direction that he followed in preseason was the rule of the land, but it isn't. It's all over the map.

This is turning into a garage league where players are suspended for open ice hits and let off free for hitting goaltenders. BS has been more inconsistent then CC and he's turning me off this game altogether, it's obvious the refs, the league can't get things right, so perhaps they should allow the players to police themselves like they have in the past, this **** is getting ridiculous.

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11-29-2011, 05:29 AM
  #735
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krisse, you're right on a few points, but suspending every contact with the head would be a disaster and would only hurt this league. Stop with this idiotic stance please.

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11-29-2011, 05:36 AM
  #736
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****!

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11-29-2011, 05:38 AM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke View Post
This is why I am impressed with Shanny's video explanations. Just watch it. Most the posts about the hit here are specifically addressed in his explanation.
and that's why I'm not...

the only difference between him and his predecessor is that instead of making a standard statement he does it trough a video...

but the logic is the same : try to find any possible excuse not to suspend the player unless there's no excuses.

- OK to smashes the head of someone's trying to outrace you
(Paccioretty - I know, not the same clown handling the case)
- OK to headshot someone reaching for the puck (Campoli)
- OK to headshot someone who doesnt have the puck (Alfie)
- not OK to headshot someone who's about to shoot (Letang)

on paper or on vid, it's the same BS. "we allow headshots, only depends on the circumstances".


It's not like it would be that hard to have a "no headshots allowed, ever" rule...

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11-29-2011, 05:40 AM
  #738
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Whether he looked at Pac or not, for me, is irrelevant. I agree with Shanahan assessment that if you decide to absorb a hit, you don't agree wit absorbing it solely with the head.

Guys, stop discussing the obvious. Would be fun that the Habs fanbase becomes the most consequent fanbase in this board. Remember, we don't have a team to play tough. We agree with suspensions like that. Hence, we agree with a suspension to our guy. We have every right to agree that the league is not consequent....but the suspension itself is needed for the league. Hit hard but don't hit the head. And if you happen to hit the head by accident, is because the guy will significantly changed the position of the head just before the hit. Letang didn't change his significantly.

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11-29-2011, 05:41 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
krisse, you're right on a few points, but suspending every contact with the head would be a disaster and would only hurt this league. Stop with this idiotic stance please.
the idiotic stance would have made for 3 or 4 more players to be suspended for a game or two, not a dozen, not twenty, not fifty either... 3 or 4 (Malone ? Wolski ? Bogosian ? who else ?)...

if THAT would kill the league, then the league is in trouble big time.

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11-29-2011, 05:44 AM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Whether he looked at Pac or not, for me, is irrelevant. I agree with Shanahan assessment that if you decide to absorb a hit, you don't agree wit absorbing it solely with the head.

Guys, stop discussing the obvious. Would be fun that the Habs fanbase becomes the most consequent fanbase in this board. Remember, we don't have a team to play tough. We agree with suspensions like that. Hence, we agree with a suspension to our guy. We have every right to agree that the league is not consequent....but the suspension itself is needed for the league. Hit hard but don't hit the head. And if you happen to hit the head by accident, is because the guy will significantly changed the position of the head just before the hit. Letang didn't change his significantly.
with that logic it's back to square one.

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11-29-2011, 05:47 AM
  #741
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
with that logic it's back to square one.
How about reading the rest of the same sentence? You can't change the path of your hit if half of a second before, the guy who's hit changes significantly the position of his head. Letang didn't change it significantly. That's an accident. Everything else is at the responsability of the guy who hits. Just like when you touch a guy's face with your stick. Even by accident, you're going to the box and 5 minutes if he bleeds. Time to put some responsability to the guys who are doing the actions. Not receiving them.

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11-29-2011, 05:55 AM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Well, none of those incidents really wind up in suspensions. Pyatt being beaten doesn't warrant a suspension, does it? Facewashes after the whistle don't either. So I'm not sure what you're driving at here.



Did Miller miss games due to this? I'm pretty sure Miller missed games due to an incident later on in the same game--since he stayed in. Correct me if I'm mistaken. I seem to recall seeing an incident where Seguin was pushed into Miller later in the game, and Miller left after that point.

In any event: the two hits are not comparable. Beyond the fact that one is on a goaltender, the circumstances of the hit are entirely different. I'm not sure where to begin with comparing the two in terms of level of egregiousness.




I'm not sure why this is a slap in the face to Pacioretty. Would he not have travelled with the club anyhow?
Are you kidding? Pyatt had his face cut by Campbells elbow pad and you can clearly see him missing Pyatts face with his fist so the plastic elbow pad would nail his face. Using equipment to pummel the other player is allowed now? I guess our smaller players could use their sticks and get away with it then? Nope, we'd get suspended for it.

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11-29-2011, 06:04 AM
  #743
Mike8
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Originally Posted by RushDP View Post
Are you kidding? Pyatt had his face cut by Campbells elbow pad and you can clearly see him missing Pyatts face with his fist so the plastic elbow pad would nail his face. Using equipment to pummel the other player is allowed now? I guess our smaller players could use their sticks and get away with it then? Nope, we'd get suspended for it.
Pretty sure there was no rule against this until this past summer. I may be wrong on that, however, and it was the year before. Either way, the prohibition against elbow pads being used in fights is new.

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11-29-2011, 06:24 AM
  #744
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It sickens me to see that the homerism prevents most of you to see the headshot. Who gives a rats ass if Malone or Lucic should have been suspended? Should Shanny repair his mistakes by making another one?

Headshots need to be gone, and the only way to make it happen is to target the players pockets. Just like speeding tickets for the common people.

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11-29-2011, 06:28 AM
  #745
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Another clear inconsistency was Ference giving the fans the finger and getting nothing while Wisniewski got 2 games for doing something to Avery.

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11-29-2011, 06:31 AM
  #746
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Now if the league can be consequent for the rest, that would be great for me.
Don't hold your breath. There has been no consistency since the regular season started and there's no reason to expect it in the future. The wheel of fortune is back in full force.

Remember: Shanny's job is public relations, not player safety.

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11-29-2011, 06:38 AM
  #747
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Pretty sure there was no rule against this until this past summer. I may be wrong on that, however, and it was the year before. Either way, the prohibition against elbow pads being used in fights is new.
I have seen it called at all levels of hockey as a match penality. You can't use your elbow pad in a fight. That's like taking your(or your opponent's) helmet and hitting somebody with it.

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11-29-2011, 06:45 AM
  #748
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
End result is that the main point of contact was the head. Geez people the guy had a broken nose. 3 games for Pac is fine with me. Now if the league can be consequent for the rest, that would be great for me.
My thoughts exactly. At first I wasn't sure what to think about the hit because it happened too fast. After watching it a few time, I came to the conclusion that it was a east-west hit to the head, and this is not accepted anymore. Case closed, he deserved a suspension. It's a little bit too harsh in comparison with similar hits that got away with nothing the season. But if stays league consistent about those suspensions, I would be fine with it.

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11-29-2011, 06:47 AM
  #749
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I have seen it called at all levels of hockey as a match penality. You can't use your elbow pad in a fight. That's like taking your(or your opponent's) helmet and hitting somebody with it.
Not really true.

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2009/3...bell-ducks-the

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11-29-2011, 07:01 AM
  #750
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I don't mind the 3 games only if we see consistency from now on....

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