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Bobby Ryan Being Shopped

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Old
11-29-2011, 11:50 AM
  #26
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bobby ryan is my favorite player that doesn't wear a flyers jersey.

paul holmgren: this needs to change to "bobby ryan is my favorite player, and he wears a flyers jersey"

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11-29-2011, 12:07 PM
  #27
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And please god, stop with the Ryan proposals..
I like a good ole american player as much as the next guy, but replacing Carle for Sbisa is idiotic
Edit : Also need more defense in general

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11-29-2011, 12:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
"Not happy" would be an understatement in my case.
Ha.. In your case remember how "good" he was against Montreal in playoffs but seriously.. if Bryzgalov was doing his job and Leighton played 5-7 games. we should be fine. Right?


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11-29-2011, 12:59 PM
  #29
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The fact that people would pass over an opportunity to get Bobby Ryan is unthinkable. Yes our scoring depth is great...so far. Yes we need defense first. But you don't pass up a player of this caliber, especially since we may his first choice as a trade.

I've been supportive of ALL of these players this season and look forward to their futures, but to be realistic:

-Jagr is 39, might not be back next year
-Hartnell is on fire, we already saw him when he was ineffective this season
-Briere is off to a slow start
-JvR is off to a slow start, and is now injured
-Schenn has proven nothing (yet I still think he will)
-Couturier is buried on the 4th line
-Read, Talbot have exceeded expectations and overachieved
-Voracek is a wild card, and an RFA at the end of the season
-...What if Giroux gets hurt?

Just can't pass up this opportunity to strengthen the team imo.

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Old
11-29-2011, 01:04 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
The fact that people would pass over an opportunity to get Bobby Ryan is unthinkable.
Shhhhhhhh.. you are not allowed to express your opinion here. it is wrong. we need more D or better yet 21 year old potential #1 D.

But yes, I agree if Ryan is available it is criminal not to pick up a phone and find out what he is worth.

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Old
11-29-2011, 01:06 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
The fact that people would pass over an opportunity to get Bobby Ryan is unthinkable. Yes our scoring depth is great...so far. Yes we need defense first. But you don't pass up a player of this caliber, especially since we may his first choice as a trade.

I've been supportive of ALL of these players this season and look forward to their futures, but to be realistic:

-Jagr is 39, might not be back next year
-Hartnell is on fire, we already saw him when he was ineffective this season
-Briere is off to a slow start
-JvR is off to a slow start, and is now injured
-Schenn has proven nothing (yet I still think he will)
-Couturier is buried on the 4th line
-Read, Talbot have exceeded expectations and overachieved
-Voracek is a wild card, and an RFA at the end of the season
-...What if Giroux gets hurt?

Just can't pass up this opportunity to strengthen the team imo.
Only way I could support a move like this would be if it continues to mean the team gets younger/better.

If a deal could be swung around Briere + Voracek + picks for Ryan + Sbisa or something like that then I'd do it (and I think it makes the Ducks better for the next few years and it puts the Flyers in a better position too).

But if we're trading a Schenn or a JVR for it then my question is... why?

We traded Richie and Carter to get younger and to get two future #1Cs (Schenn and Couturier). What you have now is an excellent long-term core w/ Giroux-Schenn-Couturier at center and JVR-Voracek-Read on the wings. Why mess with that?

I'd love to replace "Voracek" in that list w/ "Ryan". But if we'd need to trade 2 of those guys to add Ryan, it just doesn't make much sense IMO.

EDIT: And the Ducks are trying to make a deal that makes them better NOW. Something around Schenn doesn't make them better now. Something around JvR doesn't make them better now. Briere+Voracek would make them better now, though

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Old
11-29-2011, 01:17 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Only way I could support a move like this would be if it continues to mean the team gets younger/better.

If a deal could be swung around Briere + Voracek + picks for Ryan + Sbisa or something like that then I'd do it (and I think it makes the Ducks better for the next few years and it puts the Flyers in a better position too).

But if we're trading a Schenn or a JVR for it then my question is... why?

We traded Richie and Carter to get younger and to get two future #1Cs (Schenn and Couturier). What you have now is an excellent long-term core w/ Giroux-Schenn-Couturier at center and JVR-Voracek-Read on the wings. Why mess with that?

I'd love to replace "Voracek" in that list w/ "Ryan". But if we'd need to trade 2 of those guys to add Ryan, it just doesn't make much sense IMO.

EDIT: And the Ducks are trying to make a deal that makes them better NOW. Something around Schenn doesn't make them better now. Something around JvR doesn't make them better now. Briere+Voracek would make them better now, though
My friend and I were discussing this last night, and we both came up with one single problem. If we trade Briere, who fills in as our second line center. Schenn isn't ready to fill that need yet. Maybe next year or two years from now but not this year. Briere also has his NMC which has a ton attached to it(Family being the biggest). IMHO I will say Briere won't be moved

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11-29-2011, 01:19 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Only way I could support a move like this would be if it continues to mean the team gets younger/better.

If a deal could be swung around Briere + Voracek + picks for Ryan + Sbisa or something like that then I'd do it (and I think it makes the Ducks better for the next few years and it puts the Flyers in a better position too).

But if we're trading a Schenn or a JVR for it then my question is... why?

We traded Richie and Carter to get younger and to get two future #1Cs (Schenn and Couturier). What you have now is an excellent long-term core w/ Giroux-Schenn-Couturier at center and JVR-Voracek-Read on the wings. Why mess with that?

I'd love to replace "Voracek" in that list w/ "Ryan". But if we'd need to trade 2 of those guys to add Ryan, it just doesn't make much sense IMO.

EDIT: And the Ducks are trying to make a deal that makes them better NOW. Something around Schenn doesn't make them better now. Something around JvR doesn't make them better now. Briere+Voracek would make them better now, though
Briere has a NTC (or NMC). Anaheim is 100% going to want defense in a Ryan trade, and ESPECIALLY if we snag Sbisa too. Carle or Mez would be going the other way. We'd be staying young with Ryan, and we'd be getting a proven star, and more size (not to mention someone willing to use it)

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Old
11-29-2011, 01:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Briere has a NTC (or NMC). Anaheim is 100% going to want defense in a Ryan trade, and ESPECIALLY if we snag Sbisa too. Carle or Mez would be going the other way. We'd be staying young with Ryan, and we'd be getting a proven star, and more size (not to mention someone willing to use it)
If we go after Ryan and engage in a bit of overkill on offense then yeah it better be some kind of package that helps us reconstitute the D as well which I'm obviously in favor of and includes one of Mesz or Carle or both especially if they can't step it up in Pronger's absence which from prior experience doesn't seem likely especially Mr Softie Carle...

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11-29-2011, 01:28 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
My friend and I were discussing this last night, and we both came up with one single problem. If we trade Briere, who fills in as our second line center. Schenn isn't ready to fill that need yet. Maybe next year or two years from now but not this year. Briere also has his NMC which has a ton attached to it(Family being the biggest). IMHO I will say Briere won't be moved
Obviously I'm assuming he would waive. Can't say if he actually would given the family stuff, but usually, unless you're sending a play to Siberia (or Columbus), players are willing to waive. And Anaheim w/ Briere and Voracek would be serious cup contender.

As to the 2nd line center thing, it would be Schenn. He is ready for it IMO. I saw him play on the 2nd line while he was up here and he looked great. He is very responsible defensively (much more so than Briere) and he was over 50% on draws.

Lines I would roll:

Ryan-Giroux-Jagr Witnessing this would be sick, just so amazing.

JVR-Schenn-Read Speed. Hot, nasty, bad-ass speed. This line would be fun to watch.

Hartnell-Couturier-Simmonds Ultimate cycling line. Would be the perfect 3rd line for this team. And would be a punishing force come playoff time.

HarryZ-Talbot-Rinaldo Energy line / checking line.

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11-29-2011, 01:36 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Obviously I'm assuming he would waive. Can't say if he actually would given the family stuff, but usually, unless you're sending a play to Siberia (or Columbus), players are willing to waive. And Anaheim w/ Briere and Voracek would be serious cup contender.

As to the 2nd line center thing, it would be Schenn. He is ready for it IMO. I saw him play on the 2nd line while he was up here and he looked great. He is very responsible defensively (much more so than Briere) and he was over 50% on draws.

Lines I would roll:

Ryan-Giroux-Jagr Witnessing this would be sick, just so amazing.

JVR-Schenn-Read Speed. Hot, nasty, bad-ass speed. This line would be fun to watch.

Hartnell-Couturier-Simmonds Ultimate cycling line. Would be the perfect 3rd line for this team. And would be a punishing force come playoff time.

HarryZ-Talbot-Rinaldo Energy line / checking line.
I agree those lines are absolutely crazy. I also saw schenn play this year live and just don't think he can contribute as much as we need for him to be a second line center. If he is our second line center, that would mean this team is building for the future and not to win it this year. I still believe this organization thinks it can win this year or even make a deep playoff run. Schenn at the 2nd line center seems like a thing an up-and- coming team would do, not a contending team

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11-29-2011, 01:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I agree those lines are absolutely crazy. I also saw schenn play this year live and just don't think he can contribute as much as we need for him to be a second line center. If he is our second line center, that would mean this team is building for the future and not to win it this year. I still believe this organization thinks it can win this year or even make a deep playoff run. Schenn at the 2nd line center seems like a thing an up-and- coming team would do, not a contending team
I think that 50 games is a long time for Schenn to grow into the 2nd line center role. We'd need him to be up to it by the playoffs. And IMO, he would be. I watched him very closely during his time up here and he did everything we need a #2C to do. He won draws, he was defensively responsible, and he set up some great chances and had some great chances himself, unfortunately none of them went in so he is still point-less.

EDIT: And should it become obvious that Schenn can't handle the 2nd line center role, we could easily make a trade @ the deadline. Olli Jokinen from Calgary would be perfect and should be available. And at only a $3M cap hit, we could easily make it work.


Last edited by WeekendAtBernies: 11-29-2011 at 01:59 PM. Reason: added thought
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Old
11-29-2011, 01:55 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
The fact that people would pass over an opportunity to get Bobby Ryan is unthinkable. Yes our scoring depth is great...so far. Yes we need defense first. But you don't pass up a player of this caliber, especially since we may his first choice as a trade.

I've been supportive of ALL of these players this season and look forward to their futures, but to be realistic:

-Jagr is 39, might not be back next year
-Hartnell is on fire, we already saw him when he was ineffective this season
-Briere is off to a slow start
-JvR is off to a slow start, and is now injured
-Schenn has proven nothing (yet I still think he will)
-Couturier is buried on the 4th line
-Read, Talbot have exceeded expectations and overachieved
-Voracek is a wild card, and an RFA at the end of the season
-...What if Giroux gets hurt?

Just can't pass up this opportunity to strengthen the team imo.
JVR, pacing to major career highs in goals and assists prior to injury, is off to a slow start?

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11-29-2011, 01:55 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I think that 50 games is a long time for Schenn to grow into the 2nd line center role. We'd need him to be up to it by the playoffs. And IMO, he would be. I watched him very closely during his time up here and he did everything we need a #2C to do. He won draws, he was defensively responsible, and he set up some great chances and had some great chances himself, unfortunately none of them went in so he is still point-less.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I like Schenn and think he will be a special player in this league, just not yet. I hope you are right though for the sake of the team that he is ready for 2nd line center right now, just dont see it. But all is good. The fact just remains I want Bobby Ryan haha

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11-29-2011, 02:03 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I like Schenn and think he will be a special player in this league, just not yet. I hope you are right though for the sake of the team that he is ready for 2nd line center right now, just dont see it. But all is good. The fact just remains I want Bobby Ryan haha
Guess I didn't get my edit in in-time for you to see it haha.

I'm definitely high on expectations for Schenn this year, but if it became clear he wasn't ready for 2nd line duty, we can easily acquire someone @ the deadline (Olli Jokinen from the Flames would be perfect... last year of deal, $3M cap hit, we could easily fit him).

Ryan-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Jokinen-Simmonds
Hartnell-Schenn-Read
Talbot-Couturier-Rinaldo/HarryZ

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11-29-2011, 02:06 PM
  #41
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JVR, pacing to major career highs in goals and assists prior to injury, is off to a slow start?
To start the season, yes.

So take JvR out of the equation, I guess we'll be fine then. Right?

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11-29-2011, 02:13 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Guess I didn't get my edit in in-time for you to see it haha.

I'm definitely high on expectations for Schenn this year, but if it became clear he wasn't ready for 2nd line duty, we can easily acquire someone @ the deadline (Olli Jokinen from the Flames would be perfect... last year of deal, $3M cap hit, we could easily fit him).
Ryan-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Jokinen-Simmonds
Hartnell-Schenn-Read
Talbot-Couturier-Rinaldo/HarryZ
I hope you jokinen about that dead line trade. I really do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
JVR, pacing to major career highs in goals and assists prior to injury, is off to a slow start?
yes but a lot of it was scored against Jets, Jackets. Let's be honest, so far JVR did not work very hard this season. Skating was not there for the most part, same goes for physical play as well as his play without the puck and especially in d-sive zone was a suspect this season. Overall, it’s been inconsistent. Very few times he had to work hard for his goals this season.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 11-29-2011 at 02:32 PM.
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11-29-2011, 02:19 PM
  #43
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Ryan grew up a "huge" Flyers fan (as he said on twitter a couple weeks ago).

What I would do to get him on this team...

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11-29-2011, 03:45 PM
  #44
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* Insert prerequisite statement about how this or any version of this is unrealistic... etc. *

I threw this out on the trade board in between Toronto-Anaheim proposals and a couple of people thought it was reasonably well balanced.

To Anaheim:

B. Schenn
J. Voracek
One of Lilja or Walker (Cap reasons)

To Flyers

B. Ryan

Thoughts?

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Old
11-29-2011, 03:53 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
* Insert prerequisite statement about how this or any version of this is unrealistic... etc. *

I threw this out on the trade board in between Toronto-Anaheim proposals and a couple of people thought it was reasonably well balanced.

To Anaheim:

B. Schenn
J. Voracek
One of Lilja or Walker (Cap reasons)

To Flyers

B. Ryan

Thoughts?
I'd pass on that. I'd be interested in getting Ryan, but I wouldn't bet the farm on him unless we also had a deal in place to sure up the defense. If he's gettable for a reasonable price tag, ok. But I don't think it would serve the team to overpay for him at this point.

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11-29-2011, 03:55 PM
  #46
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I feel the Ryan to Philly is a pipe dream.

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11-29-2011, 03:58 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
* Insert prerequisite statement about how this or any version of this is unrealistic... etc. *

I threw this out on the trade board in between Toronto-Anaheim proposals and a couple of people thought it was reasonably well balanced.

To Anaheim:

B. Schenn
J. Voracek
One of Lilja or Walker (Cap reasons)

To Flyers

B. Ryan

Thoughts?
The ultimate victory to me would be getting out of there without giving up any top prospects (Schenn, Couturier) and without giving up any defenseman. But realisitcally we'll probably have to give up either Schenn or Voracek as well as a top 4 d-man and pick(s), for both value and cap reasons. Also, Lilja, Pronger, or Gus won't be able to be dealt while on IR/LTIR.

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11-29-2011, 04:07 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
My friend and I were discussing this last night, and we both came up with one single problem. If we trade Briere, who fills in as our second line center. Schenn isn't ready to fill that need yet. Maybe next year or two years from now but not this year. Briere also has his NMC which has a ton attached to it(Family being the biggest). IMHO I will say Briere won't be moved
Couturier and JVR have played well together especially when Briere was out, plus Couturier would make that line more sound defensively.
Pop in Ryan on the right side of that line and you have a team with such depth in all 4 lines that no team could defend against us.

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11-29-2011, 04:13 PM
  #49
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They are not going to trade him for our old assets (briere hartnell). We can't give away our mid level defense (coburn mez Carle)
And do you want to trade Couts or Schenn for a forward....I don't. If one of those guys gets moved it needs to be for an equivalent blue line talent.

Ryans great, but there is no sense to this deal.

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11-29-2011, 04:20 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
They are not going to trade him for our old assets (briere hartnell). We can't give away our mid level defense (coburn mez Carle)
And do you want to trade Couts or Schenn for a forward....I don't. If one of those guys gets moved it needs to be for an equivalent blue line talent.

Ryans great, but there is no sense to this deal.
That makes sense. On the other hand, I think you need to at least think about moving them if a bona fide 1W becomes available--which Ryan is. I would much rather move Schenn + for Ryan--who is under contract for four more years--than a UFA 1D like Suter.

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