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Who is the worst defenseman on this team?

View Poll Results: Who is the worst?
Weber 2 2.63%
Suter 1 1.32%
Blum 3 3.95%
Klein 21 27.63%
Boullion 8 10.53%
Hillen 11 14.47%
Josi 1 1.32%
Laakso 29 38.16%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-29-2011, 09:24 AM
  #26
triggrman
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Well you know I've never been a big fan of Boullion. His puck skills are worse than Klein's and his physical play is overrated, again, IMHO. I agree Klein has to have a pmd as a partner, but his mental breakdowns kill him a few times a game. The guy has all the tools to be awesome but his hockey sense holds him back.

I think we've not been coming out of the zone as a unit lately and that kills you both offensively and defensively.

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Old
11-29-2011, 09:47 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I think it's funny that we can find a way to bash one or two guys when it's a team game. The overall D of the team is not where it needs to be. To single out one player at this point is silly. It gives us something to do and to vent about but do you think Trotz sits in meetings and at practice and goes, Klein, Hillen, Bouillion, you've really been sucking, it's time to pick it up?

I remember a play last week where Klein was on the boards in the neutral zone manning up with someone and Cube comes to help him out, leaving Hemsky wide open in the middle of the ice accepting a pass and walking in on Pekka and roofing one. For a vet to make that sort of play is unacceptable. People then see Klein with a -1 for the play and bash him when he's made the right play.

There are tons of stats that show off what we want to see. We aren't winning right now and the only stat that hasn't gotten better in over 10 days now is the amount of points the team has. That needs to start going up and soon.

I think some around here have to take a look at what they're asking for. Take Klein out of the lineup and think about what that does to our D. Does it make it better or worse? The reason Klein looked good at the end of the year was Blum was a good PMD and they clicked. For whatever reason, they have been separated but looked like pooh before they were so the growth we both thought they'd have this year isn't happening. Josi goes down in camp with a concussion and we thought he might step in and do the job. Well, until the other night, he was not around. Is he an answer or part of the solution, who knows at this point but Laakso and Ekholm haven't been the answer, that's for sure. Cube is not the same player he was the last few years for us.

Klein needs a good PMD with him to be effective. Much like Weber, he is not that great with the puck. Granted, Weber is better than him but Suter is the main puck handler. Get Klein a good PMD and I bet a lot of this discussion isn't even happening. If Poile and Trotz believed Josi was the guy to pair with him, we were unlucky with the injury. Maybe we'll get a chance to see them tonight as a pairing. Maybe Hillen moves up and plays with Klein and Josi and Blum are paired together.

With all the depth we have back there, something has got to work. If it doesn't, some moves need to be made. We may have to give up one of Josi, Ellis or Blum to land us a guy that can play now. Then again, I bet Poile and Trotz wait around to see if some of these guys develop.
I agree with most of your post except grouping Hillen in with Klein and Bouillon as sucking. He was finally given more of a role last night, logging 21:13, playing on the second pairing and getting first PK time. Klein's play was much better last night, because Hillen is much better positionally than Bouillon (your description above re Bouillion is a prime example).

I am not the only one who agrees. Here are Barry Trotz' comments re Hillen from last night, courtesy of Josh Cooper, "He was under the radar a little bit and he has played very, very well, Trotz said. Im happy for him.

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Old
11-29-2011, 10:50 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
This thread makes me laugh.
Agreed. What's even more funnier is last night, Hillen and Klein made a better d-pairing than Boullion and WHOMEVER he was paired with. He**, it was the best 2nd pairing dmen we have put together since Klein/Blum.

It is a fact that Klein is our #3 dman. Actually, it is not even close... All Klein needs is a puck moving dman (which he had with Hillen last night) and he will be fine.

My list of our "order" of dmen:
1-tie.) Weber/Suter
3.) Klein
5.) Hillen
6.) Blum
7.) Josi
8.) Boullion
9.) Laakso


There is a reason why I skipped #4.

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Old
11-29-2011, 11:36 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
This thread makes me laugh.
Well then, it has done its job. I agree. It is a very interesting topic, especially when Klein ranks so high as the worst defensemen, yet other rank him #3. Fun.

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Old
11-29-2011, 12:17 PM
  #30
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Klein is not a #3 dman-- maybe on his best days every 1 in 10 games. And then there are the games where he plays like a #7.

Sure, Klein gets more flack than Suter. It's not to say that Suter doesn't make mistakes, it's just that Klein's mental lapses happen with way more frequency, usually several times a game, and usually against lesser quality competition. His hockey sense is just not good.

If Klein didn't have speed, he'd be an AHL defenseman. His mobility allows him to make up for his lack of hockey sense, *sometimes*.


Last edited by dulzhok: 11-29-2011 at 12:30 PM.
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Old
11-29-2011, 12:46 PM
  #31
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This is a easy question. Klien is the worst and Bouillon is next. Klien has 15+ giveaways this year and Bouillon is right behind him. Blum is clearly are third best defenseman. His +/- may not show it, but if you look at the majority of the goals scored on when Blum was on the ice was because it was a 2 on 1, or even a 3 on 1 due to the other defensemans error.

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Old
11-29-2011, 01:22 PM
  #32
triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Klein is not a #3 dman-- maybe on his best days every 1 in 10 games. And then there are the games where he plays like a #7.

Sure, Klein gets more flack than Suter. It's not to say that Suter doesn't make mistakes, it's just that Klein's mental lapses happen with way more frequency, usually several times a game, and usually against lesser quality competition. His hockey sense is just not good.

If Klein didn't have speed, he'd be an AHL defenseman. His mobility allows him to make up for his lack of hockey sense, *sometimes*.
Totally agree.

I think what really makes it worse is so much was expected from Klein growth wise that just hasn't been there.

Talent wise the dude has the tools.

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Old
11-29-2011, 02:37 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
If Klein didn't have speed, he'd be an AHL defenseman. His mobility allows him to make up for his lack of hockey sense, *sometimes*.
Absolutely silly argument. Period.

"If Dany Heatley didn't have an incredible shot, he'd be an AHL forward"

"If Marek Zidlicky couldn't pass the puck like a wizard, he'd be in the AHL"

"If Kimmo Timonen couldn't move the puck as well as he does, he wouldn't be in the NHL"

"If Peyton Manning couldn't read defenses so well, he wouldn't be in the NFL" (whoops, wrong sport)

All true... It is true that Klein isn't the best with the puck. But I still consider him to be better than Hamhuis at it. He also has a bit of an underrated shot. But he does have mental lapses often. He definitely makes up for it with his skating. And while he might not be the fastest skater in the NHL, in my opinion, he is the smoothest and one of the strongest. He is very good at stopping the cycle with his leg strength and balance.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:01 PM
  #34
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I have decided to put in a vote for Josi because he was getting left out.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:20 PM
  #35
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The title of this should be changed to "Klein usually sucks but seriously, Laakso is the worst defenseman on the team."

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:27 PM
  #36
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Last night it was Weber. The game before that it was all seven. Before that it was Klein some games, Cube, Blum, Laakso, even Suter. We'll see if we can actually get all of our d-men to play at least one solid game at the same time. It would be a welcome change.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:29 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
The title of this should be changed to "Klein usually sucks but seriously, Laakso is the worst defenseman on the team."
The title of this should be changed to "Klein usually sucks but seriously, Laakso is the worst defenseman on the team, while Blum is on the ice everytime the opponent scores.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:55 PM
  #38
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
Absolutely silly argument. Period.

"If Dany Heatley didn't have an incredible shot, he'd be an AHL forward"
The difference is Healtley shooting ability (and hockey sense) allow him to score 50 goals. Sure, if he didn't have his shot and hockey sense, he'd be an AHLer.

Kleins speed is asset, but that doesn't define his value as a player.

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Old
11-29-2011, 05:00 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiralyPred View Post
The title of this should be changed to "Klein usually sucks but seriously, Laakso is the worst defenseman on the team, while Blum is on the ice everytime the opponent scores.
Yes, Blum and Klein are both not good defensively. The difference is Blum can make up for it by being a good offensive player, while Klein cannot.

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Old
11-29-2011, 08:26 PM
  #40
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Good game by Klein and Hillen together. I thought it was funny that Klein was directing Hillen at some points in the game of where to go with the puck. For all the talk of Klein not knowing what to do, he pointed Hillen in the right direction on numerous occasions. Funny how that works.

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Old
11-29-2011, 08:39 PM
  #41
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Klein = Robot

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Old
11-30-2011, 06:43 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Good game by Klein and Hillen together. I thought it was funny that Klein was directing Hillen at some points in the game of where to go with the puck. For all the talk of Klein not knowing what to do, he pointed Hillen in the right direction on numerous occasions. Funny how that works.
Both Josh Cooper and Trotz have commented this week as to how the Defense has solidified (since Bouillon's departure). Klein and Hillen are very vocal out there and that seems to have helped Klein's game especially. Maybe Klein couldn't understand Bouillon's canuck-French.

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Old
12-02-2011, 03:39 PM
  #43
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I had some time to kill, so I thought I'd so some statistical stuffs.

For each D man on this team, I took total minutes divided by +/- to get how many minutes it took to get a net goal for or against with each on this ice, just for a different comparison.

Weber- 43.333 Minutes per plus
Suter- 51. 538 Minutes per plus
Josi- 54.2667 Minutes per plus (very small sample size)
Hillen- 311.267 Minutes per minus
Laakso- 104.25 Minutes per minus
Blum- 50.417 Minutes per minus
Klein- 36.505 Minutes per minus
Boullion- 35.6875 Minutes per minus

Interesting. Klein and Boullion are almost time for last, with Josi (i know, tiny sample size) being almost even with Sutes.

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Old
12-03-2011, 12:18 AM
  #44
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At this time, I would rank them like this:

1) Suter - Our best one-on-one D man, also good with breakout passes
2) Weber - Has occasional gaffs, but no one is better at clearing the net

<gargantuan gap>

3) Josi - small sample size...but he looks to have good sense and doesn't make a lot of obvious mistakes

<gap>

4) Bouillon - Not great, not bad. Just a vet defenseman. I'd rather have him on the D end than the O end, though.

5) Hillen - plays sub-Franson minutes, but doesn't make as many bonehead mistakes as Klein or Blum. I wouldn't take him one-on-one, but he's not *terrible* in the D zone.

6) Blum - has his moments of brilliance (mainly on offense) and occasionally makes heady plays on D...but he's looked more like a rookie this year than during last year's run. Sometimes he looks lost.

7) Klein - KLEEEEEEEEIIIIIINNNNNNNN! (think Star Trek Wrath of Kahn). He makes more good plays than he is given credit for, but he's horribly inconsistent for a guy that has played as long as Weber and Suter. Granted, he plays more minutes than any of the other guys...but seriously, Klein should be SOLIDLY the #3 guy right now, without question. He seems to have hit his talent ceiling.

8) Laasko - not much to say here. Dude was a ghost on the ice.

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Old
12-03-2011, 07:42 AM
  #45
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Blum's performance this season, is why i'm not overly excited and ready to annoint Josi just yet. We have a great record of young guys (D and F) coming up and performing well, they fit in rather seemlessly. Then they always, always, always hit that sophomore slump. And unfortunately, it seems that many of the Preds prospects don't break out of it as quickly, or ever, as other organizations have seen.

Not only is Blum not as effective this season, Klein is definitely less effective. He's in danger of becoming the Arkhipov of defense, although having a consistent partner with NHL experience/ability would really go a long way with Klein. So i'm hopeful that the second half of the season is much better for him.

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:40 AM
  #46
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I think the problem with blum right now is that there is no desperation to his game, as trotz would say. He has no fear of riding the bus right now. I think this is why josi so far, and hillen have looked better. they have the fear of not having a job, or beng sent back down.

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Old
12-04-2011, 09:03 AM
  #47
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Would love to see Weber and Josi paired together.

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Old
12-04-2011, 09:37 AM
  #48
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I think Blum might need the Martin Erat treatment, honestly, but he's probably not going to get it. Trotz will let him take his lumps and see if he "gets it" the same way Suter did back in 07-08.

The worst defenseman in the poll (by a wide margin) is no longer on the team, which just further goes to prove how poor he was, but if granted another vote, I would probably go for Hillen. He's essentially playing Franson minutes, and the whole point of trading Franson was to get someone who wouldn't have to play sheltered minutes like that.

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Old
12-04-2011, 11:58 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNextOneX View Post
Would love to see Weber and Josi paired together.


We have an angry Next One here ...
Angry but not stupid : it makes sense !!
The Preds or another team should, as a matter of fact, pick Weber while he is cheap.

topic: a diamond in the rough
Phone number : Habs
player : Weber Jr. Yannick
reason for undervaluation : mishandled
Features : Hard working, reliable defense and PP specialist. Good puck mover. Best shot as a young gun.
Guarantee : ? he is not a washing machine. no guarantees. But he is a proven NHL player with 75 games.
and 9 points in 27 games this year.

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Old
12-04-2011, 01:49 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by torero View Post


We have an angry Next One here ...
Angry but not stupid : it makes sense !!
The Preds or another team should, as a matter of fact, pick Weber while he is cheap.

topic: a diamond in the rough
Phone number : Habs
player : Weber Jr. Yannick
reason for undervaluation : mishandled
Features : Hard working, reliable defense and PP specialist. Good puck mover. Best shot as a young gun.
Guarantee : ? he is not a washing machine. no guarantees. But he is a proven NHL player with 75 games.
and 9 points in 27 games this year.
It hink he means Shea, not Yannick And no, I don't think there is need for a young PMD in Nashville.
LJV better finds his defensive game soon, or he'll end on waivers no matter how good he was in Oct/Nov.

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