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How many games for Pacioretty? [UPDATE: 3-game suspension]

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Old
11-29-2011, 02:36 PM
  #801
WeThreeKings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Pacioretty didn't extend his elbow the way Cooke did, but contact with Letang was definitely delibered through the elbow.

It was tucked down where it was supposed to be, which is why Pacioretty isn't suspended for elbowing. But the position of the two made the elbow part of the equation for the Pacioretty hit and made it all the more important for Pax to do what he should have done -- read the play and adjust his angle to hit the body rather than the head.
Hard to do when Letang alters the direction of his head immediately prior to the hit when he decides to shoot.

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11-29-2011, 02:39 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Pacioretty didn't extend his elbow the way Cooke did, but contact with Letang was definitely delibered through the elbow.

It was tucked down where it was supposed to be, which is why Pacioretty isn't suspended for elbowing. But the position of the two made the elbow part of the equation for the Pacioretty hit and made it all the more important for Pax to do what he should have done -- read the play and adjust his angle to hit the body rather than the head.
You mispelled shoulder here.

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11-29-2011, 03:33 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
He also said that even though Letang may have known that a hit was imminent, he would have no reason to think that his head would be the principle point of contact, because that is illegal (Hence the suspension).

See what you missed there?
Well then the same holds for Campoli. I doubt he thought Malone would smash him in the head since it is illegal. See how much of a hypocrite Shanny is. He's no different than Campbell was.

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11-29-2011, 04:09 PM
  #804
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Matt Cookes hit on Savard was worse then Patches on Letang. How can Shanny even go there.

1. Cooke is a dirtier player and has a history. Patches is not dirty and doesn't have a history.

2. Matt Cooke's elbow makes contact with Savard's head before his shoulder. Pacioretty had his elbow in and his shoulder made contact with Letang's head.

3. Both Pacioretty and Cooke are coming from the same angle. Savard and Letang were shooting from different orientations. Savard left handed shot = His back to Cooke. Letang right handed shot = front to Pacioretty.

4. If you look at both instances in depth and clearly, both Pacioretty and Cooke are committed to making a hit to the opposing player with there head down, and both Savard and Letang are leaning forward/down.

5. Cooke extends his elbow in order to clip Savard's head. The impact of the hit is, both players skating in different directions and the padding of Cookes elbow pads increased the pressure and force to the head of Savard, that ultimately eneded his career.

6. Pacioretty never extended his elbow or any part of his body to hit Letang's head. The impact of the hit is, both players skating in different directions and the padding of Pacioretty's elbow pad resulted in a broken nose for Letang.

*May we also note that Letang returned to the game about 5 minutes later and scored.

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11-29-2011, 04:12 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
You mispelled shoulder here.
Not the way Letang was bent forward I didn't. The best you can say is that maybe it was more on the upper arm.

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11-29-2011, 04:14 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Hard to do when Letang alters the direction of his head immediately prior to the hit when he decides to shoot.
Direction yes, position no. Letang's head was within a couple of degrees of the plane it would have been on if he hadn't moved it. Pacioretty needs to be able to read that movement and adjust the hit -- or he's out of control and needs to not make the hit.

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11-29-2011, 04:28 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Direction yes, position no. Letang's head was within a couple of degrees of the plane it would have been on if he hadn't moved it. Pacioretty needs to be able to read that movement and adjust the hit -- or he's out of control and needs to not make the hit.
I for the most part agree with everything you said, my problem isn't this ruling alone, it's the decisions or lack of discipline to other hts that annoys me, and I'm not referring to chara/patches.

Shanny was going in the right direction in preseason then someone, somewhere, told him to scale it back. The rules are there and they make sense if they are followed, for whatever reason the consistency has gone along with the severity.

I'm not sure why you're so interested in this being a Bruin's fan. What is it? Are you trying to rub it in on a habs fan base who has a reasonable reason to be upset, or what? Would you have same interest if it was a Columbus player who hit Letang, I'm not accusing you of anything, just curious?

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11-29-2011, 04:30 PM
  #808
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I think it was well intentioned but too harsh.

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11-29-2011, 04:37 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by KiCaAw View Post
Are you suggesting that this hit was a premeditated targeting of the head ?
If that were true, then the 3 games is truly trivial.
Maybe. What I know is that he made contact with the head. I don't know about his intentions. He deserved a suspension, and he got one. It is true that some similar hits went unpunished, but that is no excuse for Patches.

Was Letang's head down? I guess. Was it hard for Patches to avoid? I don't think so, but even if it was, he has to be careful. I've seen the replay many times, and no one will convince me that Pacioretty had to hit the head to make the play. The whole body is available...

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11-29-2011, 04:56 PM
  #810
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Not sure if it's been posted already, but there's an interview with Max on TSN.ca.

He says he's confused about the suspension.

He also said he's been afraid to hit players this season. Something like this happenes, you can bet we won't be seeing the physical side of Patches.

As long as he keeps scoring goals and driving to the net I'm fine with it.

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11-29-2011, 05:08 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Not sure if it's been posted already, but there's an interview with Max on TSN.ca.

He says he's confused about the suspension.

He also said he's been afraid to hit players this season. Something like this happenes, you can bet we won't be seeing the physical side of Patches.

As long as he keeps scoring goals and driving to the net I'm fine with it.
YEah

His agents also said (on Twitter) that he strongly disagrees with Shanahan and that the NHL should eliminate the grey areas

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11-29-2011, 05:10 PM
  #812
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http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/#clip576548

Pacioretty wants consistency and is confused.

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11-29-2011, 05:10 PM
  #813
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I guess I missed it in this thread but I just read on someone's twitter feed that Shanahan actually told Pacioretty that he was comparing his hit on Letang to Cooke's hit on Savard.

Shanahan as really turned into a joke now.. Pathetic.

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11-29-2011, 05:16 PM
  #814
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Letang is apparently going to miss tonight's game.

Probably should have spent more time in the "quiet room."

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11-29-2011, 05:20 PM
  #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Not sure if it's been posted already, but there's an interview with Max on TSN.ca.

He says he's confused about the suspension.

He also said he's been afraid to hit players this season. Something like this happenes, you can bet we won't be seeing the physical side of Patches.

As long as he keeps scoring goals and driving to the net I'm fine with it.
I just don't get how he can be confused. League yells constantly to not have the principle point of contact be the head.

He picked Letangs head clean. Letang put himself in a position to get nailed, but Pac shouldn't of had the first point of contact be the head. Pretty simple if you ask me....

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11-29-2011, 05:27 PM
  #816
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Pacioretty's reflection on the incident and the decision makes me kind of sad. Sure it wasn't his intention to injure Letang, and he should definitely not have been suspended based on past decisions, but ffs, Max, lay some clean hits whenever you can!!!!

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11-29-2011, 05:28 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by TOG26 View Post
I just don't get how he can be confused. League yells constantly to not have the principle point of contact be the head.

He picked Letangs head clean. Letang put himself in a position to get nailed, but Pac shouldn't of had the first point of contact be the head. Pretty simple if you ask me....
He hit shoulder and head and same time IMO. Either way, he felt confused because it was categorized with Cooke-Savard hit which Cooke came completely from blindside and max and others say Letang saw him. The whole idea is, if you can see a player, not in blindspot. So, while both are dangerous hits, they aren't alike, and that's why max felt confused. How come if a guy sees you, then puts himself in a vulnerable position before the hit, is it a suspension. When we look at hits from behind, same situation, if guy turns right before, it's onus on the player getting hit not the hitter and no suspension is given. Yet, when a guy sees you, and chooses to get in a vulnerable position, with the puck in an open ice high scoring area, he expects what? I'm not arguing the suspension, as it hit the head and so be it, but to say you don't understand his confusion is a little much. I understand why he's confused, so am I. I'm not complaining but the consistency is off.

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11-29-2011, 05:42 PM
  #818
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Let me start by reiterating that I don't have a problem with the suspension itself. For a variety of reasons (including the type of equipment used these days) head injuries seem to be the biggest threat to the league at this time. The NHL needs to eliminate head shots, and suspensions are one way to provide a deterrent.

However, along with many others, I am concerned about the inconsistency coming from the NHL on these punishments. This can be almost as dangerous, because the players on the ice will be confused about what is acceptable and what isn't.

And for those who say, "you can't compare this hit to another hit because they aren't the same" - you're right and wrong. Yes, physically hits are always going to be different. We shouldn't try to make comparisons based upon what happened concretely in one situation to another. However, it is perfectly reasonable to ask for consistency based upon the reasoning that Shanahan gives for his punishments. This is why it is fine to bring up the Lucic hit on Miller. Not because the hits themselves are similar, but because Shanahan's reasoning places the onus upon Pacioretty in a split-second decision to avoid the collision with Letang, but somehow absolves Lucic from the responsibility of avoiding the hit with Miller. It is these kinds of inconsistencies that people are confused by - not that one hit is itself similar to another - but that the reasoning from Shanahan is difficult to follow.

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11-29-2011, 05:59 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
He hit shoulder and head and same time IMO. Either way, he felt confused because it was categorized with Cooke-Savard hit which Cooke came completely from blindside and max and others say Letang saw him. The whole idea is, if you can see a player, not in blindspot. So, while both are dangerous hits, they aren't alike, and that's why max felt confused. How come if a guy sees you, then puts himself in a vulnerable position before the hit, is it a suspension. When we look at hits from behind, same situation, if guy turns right before, it's onus on the player getting hit not the hitter and no suspension is given. Yet, when a guy sees you, and chooses to get in a vulnerable position, with the puck in an open ice high scoring area, he expects what? I'm not arguing the suspension, as it hit the head and so be it, but to say you don't understand his confusion is a little much. I understand why he's confused, so am I. I'm not complaining but the consistency is off.
Player skating north south with the puck. Hitter coming east west and 'picking' the head. Under simple break down of both, I could see comparisons made. Now blindside, non-blindside, I could care less but agree Max's is far less of a blindside hit.

If I was told don't hit the head, I would just throw the check right to his chest like Max easily could of done. I wouldn't care how other rulings were decided, because no one is going to see everything the same all the time. When i watched the video I see Max change his weight from his left foot, which would of led to a hit to the body, to his right foot which leads his body to the head. Honestly think this change in Max's body position is what lead to the suspension. Or at least the way I understand it. I could be off base though! Either way my fantasy team took yet another beating with losing Max for the next 3 games!

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11-29-2011, 06:04 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by TOG26 View Post
Player skating north south with the puck. Hitter coming east west and 'picking' the head. Under simple break down of both, I could see comparisons made. Now blindside, non-blindside, I could care less but agree Max's is far less of a blindside hit.

If I was told don't hit the head, I would just throw the check right to his chest like Max easily could of done. I wouldn't care how other rulings were decided, because no one is going to see everything the same all the time. When i watched the video I see Max change his weight from his left foot, which would of led to a hit to the body, to his right foot which leads his body to the head. Honestly think this change in Max's body position is what lead to the suspension. Or at least the way I understand it. I could be off base though! Either way my fantasy team took yet another beating with losing Max for the next 3 games!
I don't think you understand. You're told to hit a guy in the center of his chest. Now if the guy leans forward and has his head lowered and in front of his chest, you hit the head first no matter what. Think about it. You cut in front of a guy to give that solid body contact hit and if his head is down, you automatically hit head before. It doesn't mean I disagree with the ruling, I just don't think it's comparable with a guy who targeted the head, which max did not. In the end, letang doesn't seem injured(besides his nose) and max will live with 3 games.

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11-29-2011, 07:03 PM
  #821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiensnation View Post
Matt Cookes hit on Savard was worse then Patches on Letang. How can Shanny even go there.

1. Cooke is a dirtier player and has a history. Patches is not dirty and doesn't have a history.

2. Matt Cooke's elbow makes contact with Savard's head before his shoulder. Pacioretty had his elbow in and his shoulder made contact with Letang's head.

3. Both Pacioretty and Cooke are coming from the same angle. Savard and Letang were shooting from different orientations. Savard left handed shot = His back to Cooke. Letang right handed shot = front to Pacioretty.

4. If you look at both instances in depth and clearly, both Pacioretty and Cooke are committed to making a hit to the opposing player with there head down, and both Savard and Letang are leaning forward/down.

5. Cooke extends his elbow in order to clip Savard's head. The impact of the hit is, both players skating in different directions and the padding of Cookes elbow pads increased the pressure and force to the head of Savard, that ultimately eneded his career.

6. Pacioretty never extended his elbow or any part of his body to hit Letang's head. The impact of the hit is, both players skating in different directions and the padding of Pacioretty's elbow pad resulted in a broken nose for Letang.

*May we also note that Letang returned to the game about 5 minutes later and scored.
Bruins fan here and this is bang on; best summary I have seen- so good in fact if you ever need a backup team to root for we will have you (hey, I'm one fan who does not hate the Habs and go back to the great Yvan Cournoyer)

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11-29-2011, 07:10 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
Letang is apparently going to miss tonight's game.

Probably should have spent more time in the "quiet room."
So if he has a concussion, i guess the Pens didnt follow concussion protocol. Shouldnt they be investigated for this?

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11-29-2011, 07:14 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I don't think you understand. You're told to hit a guy in the center of his chest. Now if the guy leans forward and has his head lowered and in front of his chest, you hit the head first no matter what. Think about it. You cut in front of a guy to give that solid body contact hit and if his head is down, you automatically hit head before. It doesn't mean I disagree with the ruling, I just don't think it's comparable with a guy who targeted the head, which max did not. In the end, letang doesn't seem injured(besides his nose) and max will live with 3 games.
Exactly.

To me you have to eliminate the grey zone. I thought the grey zone had been eliminated, but this suspension coupled with some non-suspensions has just put more grey in this zone.

Patches has every right to be confused in this instance. All he did was follow-through with hit he committed to making with a player that put himself in vulnerable position. Personally, I don't have any problems with these types of hits. May as well take all the hitting out of hockey.

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11-29-2011, 08:11 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by TOG26 View Post
Player skating north south with the puck. Hitter coming east west and 'picking' the head. Under simple break down of both, I could see comparisons made. Now blindside, non-blindside, I could care less but agree Max's is far less of a blindside hit.

If I was told don't hit the head, I would just throw the check right to his chest like Max easily could of done. I wouldn't care how other rulings were decided, because no one is going to see everything the same all the time. When i watched the video I see Max change his weight from his left foot, which would of led to a hit to the body, to his right foot which leads his body to the head. Honestly think this change in Max's body position is what lead to the suspension. Or at least the way I understand it. I could be off base though! Either way my fantasy team took yet another beating with losing Max for the next 3 games!
Obviously it wasn't as easily done as you say or he would of done so. It didn't look like pure head contact to me. He caught some of both, but the position his head went when taking the shot was leaned in towards max's shoulder, it was pretty bang, bang and not something easily avoidable for a player who has already committed to the play.

Sure if you watch the replay in slow motion and break the play down in segments it's easily avoidable, but not at real time speed. If the head was unavoidable or if max could of hit himself elsewhere easily, I have no doubt he would of, max is not a dirty head hunter.

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11-29-2011, 08:20 PM
  #825
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Originally Posted by TOG26 View Post
I just don't get how he can be confused. League yells constantly to not have the principle point of contact be the head.

He picked Letangs head clean. Letang put himself in a position to get nailed, but Pac shouldn't of had the first point of contact be the head. Pretty simple if you ask me....
Yup, but when a Habs player get hits to the head (Campoli), they basically blame the Habs player for playing hockey...

and they also compare him to a player who has the reputation of being dirty (Cooke)...

and when HE has his head smashed (Chara) he was told it was an unfortunate incident, a strong hockey play gone bad...

and he's probably aware of the Bogosian and Wolski non-suspension...

so yeah! it's that simple...

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