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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Forbes 2011: Team Values Hit All-Time High

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Old
11-30-2011, 02:52 PM
  #1
Fugu
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Forbes 2011: Team Values Hit All-Time High

The annual Forbes estimates of NHL team values, revenues, et al.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...ess-of-hockey/
Quote:
More business is boosting National Hockey League team values but climbing player costs are eroding the sport’s profitability.
The average hockey team is now worth $240 million, 5% more than last year due to a 5% increase in revenue during the 2010-11 season, to an average of $103 million per team.
...
But margins are getting squeezed. During the 2010-11 season the league posted operating income (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) of $126 million, 21% lower than the previous year. Main reason: Player costs increased 11%, to $59 million. Last season 18 of the league’s 30 teams lost money even before they had to pay bank loans or write down assets, compared with 16 the prior year.

The league’s salary cap, set at 57% of revenue, is too high for some teams to be profitable . As a result, expect the National Hockey League to undergo a cantankerous labor negotiations when the owners and players union begin to hammer our a new collective bargaining agreement to replace the current six-year deal that expires in September . The NHL must move much closer to the 48% model the NFL agreed to before this season or the 50-50 revenue split National Basketball Association owners and players recently agreed to.
The last paragraph sounds like a lobbying effort on behalf of the NHL. What utter bunk.



Team valuations:

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/

Video Clip (discussing Fehr):
http://video.forbes.com/fvn/sportsmo...-players-union

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Old
11-30-2011, 03:10 PM
  #2
Confucius
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I would have thought the teams would have gained more than 5% value, do to the 2 billion dollar U S tv contract alone.

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Old
11-30-2011, 03:22 PM
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fightincolts
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I was hoping to see a list of the franchises ranked #1-30

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11-30-2011, 03:23 PM
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kdb209
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Rank Team Current Value ($mil) 1-Yr Value Change (%) Debt/Value (%) Revenue ($mil) Operating Income ($mil)
1 Toronto Maple Leafs 521 3 25 193 81.8
2 New York Rangers 507 10 0 169 41.4
3 Montreal Canadiens 445 9 65 165 47.7
4 Detroit Red Wings 336 7 0 127 16.3
5 Boston Bruins325 8 35 125 2.7
6 Chicago Blackhawks306 2 0 118 8.7
7 Vancouver Canucks300 15 37 146 23.5
8 Philadelphia Flyers290 -4 22 111 3.2
9 Pittsburgh Penguins264 12 38 110 -0.2
10 Los Angeles Kings232 8 66 101 -2.0
11 Dallas Stars230 1 126 90 -1.1
12 Washington Capitals225 14 58 94 -7.5
13 Calgary Flames220 7 15 105 1.1
14 Minnesota Wild213 5 53 97 -5.9
15 Edmonton Oilers212 16 47 96 17.3
16 San Jose Sharks211 9 21 96 -7.8
17 Ottawa Senators201 3 65 100 2.8
18 Colorado Avalanche198 - 12 83 6.1
19 Anaheim Ducks184 -2 35 84 -8.4
20 New Jersey Devils181 -17 144 100 -6.1
21 Tampa Bay Lightning174 20 26 87 -8.5
22 Buffalo Sabres173 2 46 87 -5.6
23 Carolina Hurricanes169 4 77 81 -4.4
24 Winnipeg Jets164 21 61 71 -5.2
25 Nashville Predators163 10 52 82 -7.5
26 Florida Panthers162 -4 59 81 -7.0
27 St Louis Blues157 -5 81 78 -2.7
28 Columbus Blue Jackets152 -1 66 80 -13.7
29 New York Islanders149 -1 67 63 -8.1
30 Phoenix Coyotes134 - 26 70 -24.4

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Old
11-30-2011, 03:25 PM
  #5
No Fun Shogun
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Interesting, always like reading these.

And, if anyone cares to glance it over, attached is a quick chart of every NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL team by franchise value. Couldn't upload the Excel file directly, for some reason, so it's a three page pdf, with the color coding chart on the third page.

EDIT: ah, found a better way to do it. The attachment with the picture showing is better.


Last edited by No Fun Shogun: 10-23-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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Old
11-30-2011, 03:29 PM
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CGG
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Am I missing something here? The owners agreed to the current CBA at 46% of about $2 billion in revenue, or $920 million.

Now they're getting 43% of $3.09 billion, or $1,328,700,000 after player costs. Their take has gone up 44% over the past 6 years. How are they going to all of a sudden start crying poor?

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11-30-2011, 03:34 PM
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kdb209
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A couple of things that jump out at me (<insert Standard Forbes # Disclaimer here>):

Rank Team Current Value ($mil) 1-Yr Value Change (%) Debt/Value (%) Revenue ($mil) Operating Income ($mil)
11 Dallas Stars230 1 126 90 -1.1
20 New Jersey Devils181 -17 144 100 -6.1


Rank Team Current Value ($mil) 1-Yr Value Change (%) Debt/Value (%) Revenue ($mil) Operating Income ($mil)
1 Toronto Maple Leafs 521 3 25 193 81.8
3 Montreal Canadiens 445 9 65 165 47.7
7 Vancouver Canucks300 15 37 146 23.5
13 Calgary Flames220 7 15 105 1.1
15 Edmonton Oilers212 16 47 96 17.3
17 Ottawa Senators201 3 65 100 2.8
24 Winnipeg Jets164 21 61 71 -5.2

Although, it;s unclear if the Revenue/Operating Income are estimates/projections for this year or estimates from last season (in which case they would still reflect the ASG numbers) - although the Franchise Value ($164M, +21%) obviously reflects the sale/relocation to TNSE.

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Old
11-30-2011, 03:39 PM
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How does anyone figure the Coyotes are worth $134 million? The last purchase price we heard, was what? $110 million + massive subsidies?

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Old
11-30-2011, 03:42 PM
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Winnipeg is at +21 but Tampa is at +20.

I don't see how PHNX's value can remain stable when operating income has tanked.

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11-30-2011, 03:45 PM
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I've got a question about the Dallas Stars. Gagliardi bought the Stars from bankruptcy. Does this mean that they have a lot of less debt now ? Was it 'erased' in the bankruptcy sell? They have 126% debt per Forbes.

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11-30-2011, 03:57 PM
  #11
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seems the Jets are worth a bit more now than when they were the Thrashers

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Old
11-30-2011, 04:03 PM
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I need to hire the Bruins accountants... 2.7 mil income for a SC champ.

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Old
11-30-2011, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
I need to hire the Bruins accountants... 2.7 mil income for a SC champ.
Ya really eh? Hopefully Mr Fehr and company can bring down this house of crooked cards.

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11-30-2011, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
A couple of things that jump out at me (<insert Standard Forbes # Disclaimer here>):


Although, it;s unclear if the Revenue/Operating Income are estimates/projections for this year or estimates from last season (in which case they would still reflect the ASG numbers) - although the Franchise Value ($164M, +21%) obviously reflects the sale/relocation to TNSE.
The wording of the article on it at Forbes refers the figures as last season

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Old
11-30-2011, 04:58 PM
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Surprised to see the Avs with only seven teams ahead of them in terms of operating income, especially with their attendance below 17,000 per game every year since 2006-2007.

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Old
11-30-2011, 05:06 PM
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Rank Team Current Value ($mil)
23 Carolina Hurricanes169

Peter Karmanos begs to differ

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11-30-2011, 05:23 PM
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I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone willing to pay any of these values - especially on the bottom end.

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11-30-2011, 05:30 PM
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I'm not sure these figures are all that accurate, at least on the revenues and profit/loss estimates. I believe Forbes is doing as much research as they can to come up with the numbers, but they aren't privy to enough information.

It's telling that Forbes estimates only 12 out of 30 teams earn a profit and one of those 12, the Oilers are on record claiming they are losing money. Additionally, if Boston, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are doing as poorly as Forbes estimates going as deep as each went in the playoffs, the whole structure is terribly flawed and needs to be examined and addressed. These teams sell out every seat and should have very good media rights deals and corporate sponsorships.

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11-30-2011, 05:36 PM
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Confucius
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When you look at the operating income.Take away the top 3 and it's pretty hard to believe any of the rest are worth even 100 million

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Old
11-30-2011, 05:37 PM
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tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
Additionally, if Boston, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are doing as poorly as Forbes estimates going as deep as each went in the playoffs, the whole structure is terribly flawed and needs to be examined and addressed. These teams sell out every seat and should have very good media rights deals and corporate sponsorships.
Yeah, seriously. If those teams are actually losing money then the league should probably just not exist.

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Old
11-30-2011, 06:54 PM
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supahdupah
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Apparently those revenue numbers are from last season. Winnipeg will be in huge trouble if they only pull $71m/a in revenue

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11-30-2011, 07:25 PM
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It looks to me like Forbes missed the memo re: Dallas' bankruptcy filings.

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11-30-2011, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Although, it;s unclear if the Revenue/Operating Income are estimates/projections for this year or estimates from last season (in which case they would still reflect the ASG numbers) - although the Franchise Value ($164M, +21%) obviously reflects the sale/relocation to TNSE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
It looks to me like Forbes missed the memo re: Dallas' bankruptcy filings.
Indeed. In both instances color me confused. Not to mention Phoenix @134M. As Fugu notes above, the last paragraph looks like it was written by the league yet still, if they had in-put & wanted to paint a bleaker picture they couldve' done so. Either my math skills have become even more dyslexic than theyve always been or there truly is a whole bunch of stuff here thats not adding up or making any sense.

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Old
11-30-2011, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
I would have thought the teams would have gained more than 5% value, do to the 2 billion dollar U S tv contract alone.
You realize that deal only pays teams like $6M a year, right? 57% of which goes to the players...

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Old
11-30-2011, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
Ya really eh? Hopefully Mr Fehr and company can bring down this house of crooked cards.
Well isnt the cap based on league revenues, not profits?

Anyways, the Bruins have a pretty stellar financial system going that allows them to hide profits in different entities, unlike the MLSE where everything is owned by one group.

In boston the Bruins are owned by the Boston Professional Hockey Association, Inc. The TDGarden, parking, and concessions are owned by Delaware North (Owned by Jeremy Jacobs). Jacobs (not the Bruins) own a 20% stake in NESN.

So if looked at as a whole, the Bruins did mighty well this year. But when you pass the money around for accounting purposes. AKA BPHA pays lease of TDGarden to Delaware North, pays Delaware North to manage concessions, etc.

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