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11-30-2011, 05:01 PM
  #126
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Hartnell/Simmonds instead of JVR.
Fowler instead of Sbisa.

Then the Flyers do the deal. Unfortunately I don't think Anaheim does.
Hartell has a NTC, right? Even if he waived it:

Hartnell
Schenn
1st
2nd

for

Ryan
Fowler

...and you don't think Anaheim does it?

Fowler's value alone probably exceeds Schenn's--at best, its close to a wash.

Hartnell + 1st + 2nd for Ryan.

I just can't believe that would be the best offer Anaheim would get. Brian Burke will offer up Kulemin + Colborne / Kadri, which I think would be more appealing than a mid-round 1st.

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11-30-2011, 05:04 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Hartell has a NTC, right? Even if he waived it:

Hartnell
Schenn
1st
2nd

for

Ryan
Fowler

...and you don't think Anaheim does it?

Fowler's value alone probably exceeds Schenn's--at best, its close to a wash.

Hartnell + 1st + 2nd for Ryan.

I just can't believe that would be the best offer Anaheim would get. Brian Burke will offer up Kulemin + Colborne / Kadri, which I think would be more appealing than a mid-round 1st.
I just don't think they are trading Fowler. Kid is great and is only what 19?

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11-30-2011, 05:06 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Hartell has a NTC, right? Even if he waived it:

Hartnell
Schenn
1st
2nd

for

Ryan
Fowler

...and you don't think Anaheim does it?

Fowler's value alone probably exceeds Schenn's--at best, its close to a wash.

Hartnell + 1st + 2nd for Ryan.

I just can't believe that would be the best offer Anaheim would get. Brian Burke will offer up Kulemin + Colborne / Kadri, which I think would be more appealing than a mid-round 1st.
Yeah...

Thing is, Sbisa is more obtainable than Fowler however I don't see a Sbisa returning being in the cards (I just don't see us going back after players we traded away)...

Which means, since we already have plenty of offense, we'd be after Ryan just to be after Ryan...

Which begs the question, why fix what isn't broken...

So really, as much as I want to see Ryan, it's pretty dumb if we lose a 1st that we need to put towards defense or if we move more than or add to a future piece like Schenn going to Anaheim...

Which means Bobby Ryan won't end up in Philadelphia...

Unless we're getting Fowler too...

Which means we have to add considerably...

Which brings us right back to square one.

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11-30-2011, 05:08 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Hartnell/Simmonds instead of JVR.
Fowler instead of Sbisa.

Then the Flyers do the deal. Unfortunately I don't think Anaheim does.
Chris, w/ all due respect, stick to evaluating the Flyers' prospects.

Hartnell + Schenn wouldn't get Fowler ALONE. This is a guy who is 19 y/o and is already pretty much a #1D. The potential he possesses is limitless. Untouchable in every sense of the word... like Giroux kind of untouchable to the Ducks.

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11-30-2011, 05:09 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I just don't think they are trading Fowler. Kid is great and is only what 19?
There's like 0.01% chance they do.

We'd have to Lindros this deal to get fowler in it, with far more NHL level talent too.

Which is why ryan isn't coming here.

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11-30-2011, 05:10 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Chris, w/ all due respect, stick to evaluating the Flyers' prospects.

Hartnell + Schenn wouldn't get Fowler ALONE. This is a guy who is 19 y/o and is already pretty much a #1D. The potential he possesses is limitless. Untouchable in every sense of the word... like Giroux kind of untouchable to the Ducks.
No crap, trollansd.

But realistically, we're not in any position to start going after just Ryan with 1st round picks.

I'm trying to consider what the Flyers would likely pursue.

However, I don't believe for a second Bobby Ryan is coming to Philadelphia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
There's like 0.01% chance they do.

We'd have to Lindros this deal to get fowler in it, with far more NHL level talent too.

Which is why ryan isn't coming here.

Exactly. I'm glad someone gets it.

As an organization, we're not going after Sbisa.

And going after Ryan is a lateral move at best, and since it'd be a bidding war, a backwards move at worst.

Fixing that by accomplishing a need, like on the blueline, becomes too expensive.

Hence no Bobby Ryan to Philadelphia.

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11-30-2011, 05:11 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Yeah...

Thing is, Sbisa is more obtainable than Fowler however I don't see a Sbisa returning being in the cards (I just don't see us going back after players we traded away)...

Which means, since we already have plenty of offense, we'd be after Ryan just to be after Ryan...

Which begs the question, why fix what isn't broken...

So really, as much as I want to see Ryan, it's pretty dumb if we lose a 1st that we need to put towards defense or if we move more than or add to a future piece like Schenn going to Anaheim...

Which means Bobby Ryan won't end up in Philadelphia...

Unless we're getting Fowler too...

Which means we have to add considerably...

Which brings us right back to square one.
This = end thread.

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11-30-2011, 05:22 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Yeah...

Thing is, Sbisa is more obtainable than Fowler however I don't see a Sbisa returning being in the cards (I just don't see us going back after players we traded away)...

Which means, since we already have plenty of offense, we'd be after Ryan just to be after Ryan...

Which begs the question, why fix what isn't broken...

So really, as much as I want to see Ryan, it's pretty dumb if we lose a 1st that we need to put towards defense or if we move more than or add to a future piece like Schenn going to Anaheim...

Which means Bobby Ryan won't end up in Philadelphia...

Unless we're getting Fowler too...

Which means we have to add considerably...

Which brings us right back to square one.
Still don't agree with this crap. Why not trade for a 24 year old with 3 straight 30 goal seasons? What's our 1st line look like after Jagr leaves? ?????-Giroux-?????...maybe JvR, maybe Briere, maybe Schenn. Why not get another young bonafide star? Let Giroux and Ryan rampage together for years. Stick JvR, Couturier, or Schenn on that line in a year or two...and it's the best line in hockey.

People around here were furious that we were giving up on our "win now" attitude during the offseason, and now just because we lead the league in scoring...lets not look to acquire any available stars, LOCAL stars nonetheless.

I just can't fathom why anyone would pass up this opportunity. Defense? We could pick up McCabe for nothing, Hannan for a couple mid-round picks, Gleason for some picks/prospects.

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11-30-2011, 05:32 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Still don't agree with this crap. Why not trade for a 24 year old with 3 straight 30 goal seasons? What's our 1st line look like after Jagr leaves? ?????-Giroux-?????...maybe JvR, maybe Briere, maybe Schenn. Why not get another young bonafide star? Let Giroux and Ryan rampage together for years. Stick JvR, Couturier, or Schenn on that line in a year or two...and it's the best line in hockey.

People around here were furious that we were giving up on our "win now" attitude during the offseason, and now just because we lead the league in scoring...lets not look to acquire any available stars, LOCAL stars nonetheless.

I just can't fathom why anyone would pass up this opportunity. Defense? We could pick up McCabe for nothing, Hannan for a couple mid-round picks, Gleason for some picks/prospects.
It's going to cost us an awful lot of what little young talent we have to aquire Ryan because we don't have alot of the assets they want.
Had he been available in may...we had two more assets. Unless we can get briere in this...we don't have a #2 nhl C to trade...

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11-30-2011, 05:36 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Still don't agree with this crap. Why not trade for a 24 year old with 3 straight 30 goal seasons? What's our 1st line look like after Jagr leaves? ?????-Giroux-?????...maybe JvR, maybe Briere, maybe Schenn. Why not get another young bonafide star? Let Giroux and Ryan rampage together for years. Stick JvR, Couturier, or Schenn on that line in a year or two...and it's the best line in hockey.

People around here were furious that we were giving up on our "win now" attitude during the offseason, and now just because we lead the league in scoring...lets not look to acquire any available stars, LOCAL stars nonetheless.

I just can't fathom why anyone would pass up this opportunity. Defense? We could pick up McCabe for nothing, Hannan for a couple mid-round picks, Gleason for some picks/prospects.
I think it really comes down to what they are asking for him. Whoever wants him is going to have to pay for it. The Ducks don't need to trade him. They may want to, but they certainly don't need to. They aren't going to trade him unless they get more than he is worth. Schenn, 1st, and more is an overpayment. Yes he is good and would be awesome on a line with G, but I think we would give up too much to get him to the point where it may be a step forward on the top line, it would likely be a step back in depth and defense (which has been shaky all year).

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11-30-2011, 05:37 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Still don't agree with this crap. Why not trade for a 24 year old with 3 straight 30 goal seasons? What's our 1st line look like after Jagr leaves? ?????-Giroux-?????...maybe JvR, maybe Briere, maybe Schenn. Why not get another young bonafide star? Let Giroux and Ryan rampage together for years. Stick JvR, Couturier, or Schenn on that line in a year or two...and it's the best line in hockey.

People around here were furious that we were giving up on our "win now" attitude during the offseason, and now just because we lead the league in scoring...lets not look to acquire any available stars, LOCAL stars nonetheless.

I just can't fathom why anyone would pass up this opportunity. Defense? We could pick up McCabe for nothing, Hannan for a couple mid-round picks, Gleason for some picks/prospects.
It's going to cost us a lot of what little young talent we have because we don't match the assets ANH wants.
We don't have a #2 NHL C to trade...unless we can get briere in this...now if he had been available in may we had two more assets.

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11-30-2011, 05:51 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
It's going to cost us an awful lot of what little young talent we have to aquire Ryan because we don't have alot of the assets they want.
Had he been available in may...we had two more assets. Unless we can get briere in this...we don't have a #2 nhl C to trade...
"Little young talent?"--I think we have quite a bit of talent--and if we had moved Richards or Carter for Ryan, we'd have less of it on the whole.

Rumor is they want a 2C, but with Saku on board, I think they really want a 2C for next year--with high upside. If the Flyers offered a package centered on Schenn, I think it meets that need.

The D part is a bit more tricky--we basically would have to add an NHL ready W instead--whether its Simmonds or Read or Voracek.

I think they would want Voracek--so basically Schenn and Voracek would take Koivu-Selanne's play as early as next year.

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11-30-2011, 05:52 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Yea I know he actually posts on Dobberhockey forums sometimes.. just can't remember his name
Yeah and you're not gonna find him there or any where. His source got found out in the org and got the **** reamed out of him. The guy then went around and had Dobberhockey and every other place he posted rumors delete any trace of them ever existing. Dude definitely had some good sources, and thats what happens when you actually, ya know have sources *cough*eklund*cough*... the **** hits the fan sometimes with the people involved.

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11-30-2011, 06:05 PM
  #139
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Yeah and you're not gonna find him there or any where. His source got found out in the org and got the **** reamed out of him. The guy then went around and had Dobberhockey and every other place he posted rumors delete any trace of them ever existing. Dude definitely had some good sources, and thats what happens when you actually, ya know have sources *cough*eklund*cough*... the **** hits the fan sometimes with the people involved.
Damn, well thanks for helping out. Really would like to know what's going on in the front office. Maybe I can find my own source haha.. And don't worry I will give you guys NO info!

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11-30-2011, 06:09 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
No crap, trollansd.
I'm pretty clearly not a troll... flyers fan through and through Chris. Just don't see the point in throwing out ridiculous trades like Hartnell + Schenn for Fowler on our own board.

At least if you do it on the main board you get a rise out of Ducks fans and get them all angry. Here it's just a waste of space.

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11-30-2011, 06:10 PM
  #141
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The more I think about it, the more I worry this is going to be an insanely stupid deal like:

Giroux
Carle
Draft Pick

Ryan
Fowler

When people say the Flyers are still in on the negotiations, what they probably really mean is Anaheim is asking for some insane package and holding off on trading Ryan somewhere else in the hopes that Holmgren is dumb enough to fall for it.

Do not want.

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11-30-2011, 06:12 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
The more I think about it, the more I worry this is going to be an insanely stupid deal like:

Giroux
Carle
Draft Pick

Ryan
Fowler

When people say the Flyers are still in on the negotiations, what they probably really mean is Anaheim is asking for some insane package and holding off on trading Ryan somewhere else in the hopes that Holmgren is dumb enough to fall for it.

Do not want.
Really? I think if there is one player that means the most to his team right now its Claude ****ing Giroux! He isnt going anywhere boyz. And dont tell me they traded richy and carter so he could get traded. Not for that package

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11-30-2011, 06:17 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
"Little young talent?"--I think we have quite a bit of talent--and if we had moved Richards or Carter for Ryan, we'd have less of it on the whole.

Rumor is they want a 2C, but with Saku on board, I think they really want a 2C for next year--with high upside. If the Flyers offered a package centered on Schenn, I think it meets that need.

The D part is a bit more tricky--we basically would have to add an NHL ready W instead--whether its Simmonds or Read or Voracek.

I think they would want Voracek--so basically Schenn and Voracek would take Koivu-Selanne's play as early as next year.
What I mean by little is depth wise. Any good prospects we lose are already with the big club. The minors are totally NHL bare.
Schenn isn't a number 2 today. They want that now. If they take shenn, they would want something else good too because he doesn't match their right now need.

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11-30-2011, 06:18 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Really? I think if there is one player that means the most to his team right now its Claude ****ing Giroux! He isnt going anywhere boyz. And dont tell me they traded richy and carter so he could get traded. Not for that package
Lol.

I was about to say, "It's not like this team has a history of trading franchise players in packages for young talent or anything like that."

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11-30-2011, 06:19 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
The more I think about it, the more I worry this is going to be an insanely stupid deal like:

Giroux
Carle
Draft Pick

Ryan
Fowler

When people say the Flyers are still in on the negotiations, what they probably really mean is Anaheim is asking for some insane package and holding off on trading Ryan somewhere else in the hopes that Holmgren is dumb enough to fall for it.

Do not want.
Yeah I don't think the Flyers would allow Giroux's name into the discussions.

On the other hand, if we are getting Ryan and Fowler, and only giving up Carle and a pick, then I would happily allow Anaheim to pick any player on the team not named Giroux and personally pay for their transport to Philly International.

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11-30-2011, 06:20 PM
  #146
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Yeah I don't think the Flyers would allow Giroux's name into the discussions.

On the other hand, if we are getting Ryan and Fowler, and only giving up Carle and a pick, then I would happily allow Anaheim to pick any player on the team not named Giroux and personally pay for their transport to Philly International.
It wouldn't cost you too much. Just my tank of gas, since I'd be personally throwing them into my car, hauling them to the airport, and throwing them on the first plane to California.

Edit: Except Couturier. I'd keep him.

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11-30-2011, 06:21 PM
  #147
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What I mean by little is depth wise. Any good prospects we lose are already with the big club. The minors are totally NHL bare.
Schenn isn't a number 2 today. They want that now. If they take shenn, they would want something else good too because he doesn't match their right now need.
Eh, Koivu is still a serviceable 2C. I know that MacKenzie reported that, but I'm not sure its a deal breaker if the player is ready to contribute now but not quite ready to shoulder a line. Think Couture's role in SJ early last year or so and his progression since. That's what I would envision for Schenn in Anaheim.

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11-30-2011, 06:22 PM
  #148
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tpanotchCSN Tim Panaccio
for what it's worth (Buffalo Sprinigfield), #flyers are NOT in Bobby Ryan's sweeps
For what it's worth, indeed.

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11-30-2011, 06:23 PM
  #149
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Depending on their offers...and what we have....and knowing our hardon for him
I'd be starting at Schenn, vora, mez for Ryan + something....
That matches what they want, but it's very high on our side.
I'd never pull that trigger on our side.

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11-30-2011, 06:24 PM
  #150
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It wouldn't cost you too much. Just my tank of gas, since I'd be personally throwing them into my car, hauling them to the airport, and throwing them on the first plane to California.

Edit: Except Couturier. I'd keep him.
What can I say, I'm a grad student on a budget.

I love Couturier, but if its Ryan and Fowler and no other young asset going from us, he is expendable (though I would sell them hard on Schenn first).


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