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Old
12-01-2011, 10:32 AM
  #326
Cyborg LeClair
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I really like Bobby Ryan and would love to have him on our team, but I really would regret giving up JVR. If it were JVR for Ryan straightup I guess I'd come to terms with it, but JVR+ just seems too steep to me

but then again, it's all out of my hands anyway

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12-01-2011, 10:41 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Cyborg LeClair View Post
I really like Bobby Ryan and would love to have him on our team, but I really would regret giving up JVR. If it were JVR for Ryan straightup I guess I'd come to terms with it, but JVR+ just seems too steep to me

but then again, it's all out of my hands anyway
I agree, I would not trade Jvr under any circumstances. Especially with the fact that he just signed a long term extension. It wouldn't be good for future relationships with players if you trade 3 players within a calendar year before their extensions kick in

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12-01-2011, 10:45 AM
  #328
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It has nothing to do with making a trade due to panic it some irrational mentality because of our injuries.

It's about making a trade for a young potential elite winger who would not only make our team better now, but would exponentially make us more primed for the future up front.

Yes, defense is more of a team need right now by far, but bobby Ryan isn't a player you just pass on IMO.
Yeah, sure, but we've traded Carter and Richards for Voracek and Schenn, so obviously the organization thought highly of them, and I don't see the point in acquiring players you think are going to perform really well, and then trade them a couple of months in. I don't want to part with JVR, either, because I'm not sure Ryan is better. Ryan makes stupid defensive plays, as well, and JVR has shown signs of excellence. If only he could keep it up, though. Also, I'm not exactly sure how much of what Ryan does can be attributed to playing with Perry and Getzlaf.

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Old
12-01-2011, 10:49 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Yeah, sure, but we've traded Carter and Richards for Voracek and Schenn, so obviously the organization thought highly of them, and I don't see the point in acquiring players you think are going to perform really well, and then trade them a couple of months in. I don't want to part with JVR, either, because I'm not sure Ryan is better. Ryan makes stupid defensive plays, as well, and JVR has shown signs of excellence. If only he could keep it up, though. Also, I'm not exactly sure how much of what Ryan does can be attributed to playing with Perry and Getzlaf.
Well i'm going to say at least he plays defense. Ryan is way more offensively dynamic then JVR. He can create his own shot to a way much better degree then JVR. Also Bobby Ryan is way better at defense then JVR. I watch a **** ton of Anaheim games, Ryan is an upgrade over JVR now and in the future. As i said before JVR is what we hope mirrors Ryan.

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12-01-2011, 11:40 AM
  #330
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http://twitter.com/#!/ChrisBottaNHL/...94288645103616

"Despite coaching change, Ducks still considering offers for Bobby Ryan, others. They know they're not contenders as is."

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12-01-2011, 11:51 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Well i'm going to say at least he plays defense. Ryan is way more offensively dynamic then JVR. He can create his own shot to a way much better degree then JVR. Also Bobby Ryan is way better at defense then JVR. I watch a **** ton of Anaheim games, Ryan is an upgrade over JVR now and in the future. As i said before JVR is what we hope mirrors Ryan.
What is this analysis from? Playing NHL 12 w/ Ryan and Giroux paired together?

Ryan is not "way more offensively dynamic than JVR".

Here are some things Ryan is/does:
-2 years older than JVR
-fortunate to have played w/ Getzlaf and Perry for so long
-played about 400 more ES minutes last year than JVR due to a difference in depth and a difference in coaching schemes

If we scale up JVR's ES points or scale down Ryan's ES points so that they are on an "equal" per minute basis, we'd see that Ryan and JVR were pretty darn close last year in ES goal scoring.

Scaling Ryan's stats down:
JVR: 18 goals, 36 points
Ryan: 20.26 goals, 43.42 points

Scaling JVR's stats up:
JVR: 24.875 goals, 49.75 points
Ryan: 28 goals, 60 points

... and this was with JVR not scoring a goal in the first 17 games of the season b/c he is young and still growing as a player.

And do I even need to tell you how big the difference has been between the two thus far this year (IN JVR'S FAVOR)?!?

Let's just put it this way... if JVR played Ryan's 2010 minutes this year, he'd be on pace for 43+ goals and 85+ points.

Ryan on the other hand? On pace for 25 goals and <40 points.

It's amazing to me how much people underrate JVR. He's 22 years old (and he went the US national / NCAA route which always takes longer to develop) and you're comparing him w/ a 24 year old (who went the OHL route) and right now they stack up pretty comparably for the 2011-2012 and 2010-2011 seasons, yet somehow the 24 year old has more talent and more potential and it's a "no brainer" trade to get rid of JVR for Ryan.

Why do people always want to tinker w/ this team?!?

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12-01-2011, 12:00 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
What is this analysis from? Playing NHL 12 w/ Ryan and Giroux paired together?

Ryan is not "way more offensively dynamic than JVR".

Here are some things Ryan is/does:
-2 years older than JVR
-fortunate to have played w/ Getzlaf and Perry for so long
-played about 400 more ES minutes last year than JVR due to a difference in depth and a difference in coaching schemes

If we scale up JVR's ES points or scale down Ryan's ES points so that they are on an "equal" per minute basis, we'd see that Ryan and JVR were pretty darn close last year in ES goal scoring.

Scaling Ryan's stats down:
JVR: 18 goals, 36 points
Ryan: 20.26 goals, 43.42 points

Scaling JVR's stats up:
JVR: 24.875 goals, 49.75 points
Ryan: 28 goals, 60 points

... and this was with JVR not scoring a goal in the first 17 games of the season b/c he is young and still growing as a player.

And do I even need to tell you how big the difference has been between the two thus far this year (IN JVR'S FAVOR)?!?

Let's just put it this way... if JVR played Ryan's 2010 minutes this year, he'd be on pace for 43+ goals and 85+ points.

Ryan on the other hand? On pace for 25 goals and <40 points.

It's amazing to me how much people underrate JVR. He's 22 years old (and he went the US national / NCAA route which always takes longer to develop) and you're comparing him w/ a 24 year old (who went the OHL route) and right now they stack up pretty comparably for the 2011-2012 and 2010-2011 seasons, yet somehow the 24 year old has more talent and more potential and it's a "no brainer" trade to get rid of JVR for Ryan.

Why do people always want to tinker w/ this team?!?

First Bold- Lol- you didnt even read my post if you think I came up with this from NHL 12(which I don't even own).

And oh yea Bobby Ryan is way more dynamic then JVR at this point in their careers. I never said JVR is a bad player or anything like that. Bobby Ryan has a more complete skill package than JVR does.

Also people comparing ES minutes are failing to put into the equation of who they are playing with(especially this year). Also so many more variables. Bobby Ryan plays more minutes for a reason also. I hate when people try to compare ES or even minutes like that, it really isn't a fair notion, just going off of statistics.

Second Bold- You were one of the bigger campaigners to get Bobby Ryan in this thread if memory serves me right. Briere and Voracek I believe??

Also I am a big fan of JVR, But I believe Bobby Ryan has a higher ceiling than him and if it was JVR + something like a 2 or 3 rounder(which it wouldn't be) I would do that in a heart beat. If they ask for JVR and a dman or something of that nature, theres no way I would do the trade IMO


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Old
12-01-2011, 12:16 PM
  #333
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Not making an argument either way. Here are more stats.

JVR p/60 last year: 1.88
JVR p/60 this year: 2.52

Ryan p/60 last year: 2.54
Ryan p/60 this year: 1.28

Quick glance at Corsi: Their teams seem to do better when they're on the ice by a decent margin (not sure what to make of some of Ryan's defensive stats, however--somehow looks like Ryan's line gets shifted decently against weaker comp unless I'm reading it wrong). How is Ryan defensively?

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12-01-2011, 12:21 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post

Also people comparing ES minutes are failing to put into the equation of who they are playing with. Also so many more variables. Bobby Ryan plays more minutes for a reason also. I hate when people try to compare ES or even minutes like that, it really isn't a fair notion, just going off of statistics.

Second Bold- You were one of the bigger campaigners to get Bobby Ryan in this thread if memory serves me right. Briere and Voracek I believe??
You're right about your first point. JVR was playing w/ Richie and Versteeg last year. Ryan was playing w/ Perry and Getzlaf... I think I'd give the edge to Ryan there in quality of linemates.

As to your second point that "Bobby Ryan plays more minutes for a reason!", you're right... that reason is b/c ANAHEIM HAS NO DEPTH. It has nothing to do w/ a difference in skill between JVR and Ryan. It has to do w/ the fact that the Ducks have very little forward depth, Ryan is 2 years older than JVR, etc. If I'm trading JVR for Ryan, Ryan is probably going to slot into JVR's spot (why ruin the Harts-Roo-Jagr chemistry?) and maybe he'll get slightly more minutes, but he's not getting minutes like he did in Anaheim. If I'm making that trade, I want to know for sure that Ryan is going to give me more production in those minutes than JVR will. And I don't see how you can make that argument when their per-minute points were pretty = in 2010-2011 and JVR blows him out of the water in 2011-2012.

Trading a player who MAY (it's not a sure thing by any means) be on the verge of a breakout, a player who shows flat out dominance @ times for a struggling player on a desperate franchise just doesn't make much sense to me.

Now if you're talking Schenn + Simmonds (since Schenn isn't really a part of this team yet) or something along those lines, sure. If you're talking Briere + Voracek (the only trade I've proposed that involves tinkering), I'd do it b/c you're getting younger and I think we get better defensively w/ Schenn + Ryan than w/ Briere + Voracek and you definitely get better for the future, and I think from an offensive perspective, Ryan can replace Briere and Schenn can replace Voracek (for this year).

We made our initial trades to build for the future. If we're going to continue tinkering, it needs to be w/ that same goal in mind IMO. Set ourselves up for multiple cup runs. Trading JVR is counter-productive to that.

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Old
12-01-2011, 12:25 PM
  #335
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I don't want Bobby Ryan, but I have been dreaming of this as a creative opportunity:

receive:

Carle
Schenn
1st

receive:

Ryan
Sbisa

receive:

Suter

With picks and prospects added somewhere as needed.

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12-01-2011, 12:31 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Not making an argument either way. Here are more stats.

JVR p/60 last year: 1.88
JVR p/60 this year: 2.52

Ryan p/60 last year: 2.54
Ryan p/60 this year: 1.28

Quick glance at Corsi: Their teams seem to do better when they're on the ice by a decent margin (not sure what to make of some of Ryan's defensive stats, however--somehow looks like Ryan's line gets shifted decently against weaker comp unless I'm reading it wrong). How is Ryan defensively?
Ryan is a good defensive player. This is why I said he is more of a complete player then JVR is. Ryan is out on the penalty kill sometimes. If their are parts of JVR game he needs to improve, its his consistency and defense. All i'm saying is that if it something like JVR + a 2 or 3 rounder for Ryan (which it wouldn't be) I would do that in a heart beat. I watch the ducks regularly along with the Flyers, and IMO Ryan is a more talented player. That's not going off of stats or stuff like that, it's from watching him play the game.

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12-01-2011, 12:33 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Science View Post
I don't want Bobby Ryan, but I have been dreaming of this as a creative opportunity:

receive:

Carle
Schenn
1st

receive:

Ryan
Sbisa

receive:

Suter

With picks and prospects added somewhere as needed.
Too much given up by the Flyers.

Suter is a UFA this off-season.

He only gets traded if he won't re-sign in NSH and plans to test the market. In that case, we could be trading Schenn for 1/2 year of Suter. No thanks.

If Suter is on the block, it will be for a lot less than most assume.

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12-01-2011, 12:34 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Ryan is a good defensive player. This is why I said he is more of a complete player then JVR is. Ryan is out on the penalty kill sometimes. If their are parts of JVR game he needs to improve, its his consistency and defense. All i'm saying is that if it something like JVR + a 2 or 3 rounder for Ryan (which it wouldn't be) I would do that in a heart beat. I watch the ducks regularly along with the Flyers, and IMO Ryan is a more talented player. That's not going off of stats or stuff like that, it's from watching him play the game.
I haven't watched much of him this year, but I watched a lot of him the past 2 years and I can tell you I flat out disagree w/ that statement. JVR @ age 22 shows a heck of a lot more skill and dominance than Ryan did @ age 22. Not even close.

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12-01-2011, 01:03 PM
  #339
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thought i was going to see some good bobby ryan photoshops in here

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12-01-2011, 01:08 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I haven't watched much of him this year, but I watched a lot of him the past 2 years and I can tell you I flat out disagree w/ that statement. JVR @ age 22 shows a heck of a lot more skill and dominance than Ryan did @ age 22. Not even close.
It's cool that you disagree and all. Two different opinions lol(I feel like i'm dealing with Beef here). How about we come to a agreement and say we should just sign him when he becomes a free agent??(If he does)

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12-01-2011, 01:15 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by SilkyMitts View Post
thought i was going to see some good bobby ryan photoshops in here
This one not good enough for you? GTFO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post

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12-01-2011, 01:35 PM
  #342
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This one not good enough for you? GTFO
its mediocre at best. thanks for taking your time to find that and post it for me though. got any more?

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12-01-2011, 01:44 PM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Science View Post
I don't want Bobby Ryan, but I have been dreaming of this as a creative opportunity:

receive:

Carle
Schenn
1st

receive:

Ryan
Sbisa

receive:

Suter

With picks and prospects added somewhere as needed.
Who's giving up the 1st?
Add some picks to the Flyers (1sts, 2nds, 3rds) and I'd think about it...

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12-01-2011, 01:52 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by SilkyMitts View Post
its mediocre at best. thanks for taking your time to find that and post it for me though. got any more?
Oh, you better be careful here, people have been banned for less in the past.

I bet beef is frantically looking for his ban hammer at the moment.

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12-01-2011, 02:11 PM
  #345
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Oh, you better be careful here, people have been banned for less in the past.

I bet beef is frantically looking for his ban hammer at the moment.
I'm not new here, so I'm not sure if you're serious... if I can be banned for saying "thought I was going to see some good bobby ryan photoshops in here" which clearly was fitting for a thread titled Bobby Ryan Being Shopped

then surely you better watch out, you might be banned for saying "GTFO"

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12-01-2011, 02:22 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by SilkyMitts View Post
I'm not new here, so I'm not sure if you're serious... if I can be banned for saying "thought I was going to see some good bobby ryan photoshops in here" which clearly was fitting for a thread titled Bobby Ryan Being Shopped

then surely you better watch out, you might be banned for saying "GTFO"
I'm almost positive he was joking lol

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12-01-2011, 02:25 PM
  #347
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12-01-2011, 02:32 PM
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkyMitts View Post
I'm not new here, so I'm not sure if you're serious... if I can be banned for saying "thought I was going to see some good bobby ryan photoshops in here" which clearly was fitting for a thread titled Bobby Ryan Being Shopped

then surely you better watch out, you might be banned for saying "GTFO"
The only thing that stops me from hitting you with the banhammer for blaspheming my supreme artistic achievement is that I'm using it as a backscratcher right now. The post remover really does the trick in that hard to reach spot.

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Old
12-01-2011, 02:33 PM
  #349
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He is off the table according to GM Murray's presser today. No Bobby Ryan trade

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12-01-2011, 03:35 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
He is off the table according to GM Murray's presser today. No Bobby Ryan trade
At least he's not going to NYR.

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