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12-01-2011, 01:12 PM
  #326
gallagt01
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Stafford isn't a power forward, and that realization is what prompted the organization to tell him to drop some weight heading into the 2010-11 season and be more of a skilled forward with good size. The result: 31 goals in 62 games. Now we're wishing he was a power forward again?

Does. Not. Compute.

I'm not saying I wouldn't trade Stafford in a package for Ryan, because I would. But complaining about Stafford not being a power forward when abandoning the attempt to be a power forward led to his awesomeness last year is pretty ridiculous.
I have always wanted Stafford to be a power forward. We don't need anymore inconsistent scorers. Last year's Stafford was great, I wish he was doing that this year, but even in that season I'd swap him (and more) for Ryan. A legitimate power forward has been a need on this team for years. I want Stafford to be a power forward more than a "skilled forward with good size." He will never be that, something I've accepted, so I am more than willing to flip him for Ryan.

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12-01-2011, 01:22 PM
  #327
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Apparently the Ducks asked the Rangers for Dubinsky, Anisimov, MDZ and a 1st and the Rags obviously balked. You'd have to think that Anisimov is prolly getting dropped out of the deal, and at that point, Stafford + D prospect + 1st is just a flat out better offer.

Also, Stafford dropping weight and not being a true power forward is fine, but you can still finish your checks and play with some intensity at 6'2"/214.

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12-01-2011, 01:46 PM
  #328
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Apparently the Ducks asked the Rangers for Dubinsky, Anisimov, MDZ and a 1st and the Rags obviously balked. You'd have to think that Anisimov is prolly getting dropped out of the deal, and at that point, Stafford + D prospect + 1st is just a flat out better offer.

Also, Stafford dropping weight and not being a true power forward is fine, but you can still finish your checks and play with some intensity at 6'2"/214.
Feels a lot like the Stastny build up last year.

That is a pretty high asking price for a guy who is less than a PPG player. Yes, he has a unique skill set, but you can't mortgage your future like that for a less than franchise type player. Getzlaf, maybe, but not Ryan.

Looking at that offer more closely.... the ducks would be getting a young defenseman with 40 point potential, a consistent 40-50 point center with a very good all around game, another center with 50 point potential, and a late 1st rounder. All of that for a 60-70 point power forward.....

The guy is good, but not THAT good. Right now he is on pace for about 41 points and minus 20ish.....

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12-01-2011, 01:54 PM
  #329
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Your argument is weight = power forward? Does not compute is correct.
No, that's actually not my argument. Drew expressly stated that they had, in the past, wanted him to be a "power forward," but they wanted him to change course, drop weight, and be more of a skilled guy who has good size. And why does Drew have to be the power forward? Vanek has good size, he's not a power forward. Luke has good size, he's not a power forward.

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Apparently the Ducks asked the Rangers for Dubinsky, Anisimov, MDZ and a 1st and the Rags obviously balked. You'd have to think that Anisimov is prolly getting dropped out of the deal, and at that point, Stafford + D prospect + 1st is just a flat out better offer.

Also, Stafford dropping weight and not being a true power forward is fine, but you can still finish your checks and play with some intensity at 6'2"/214.
I have no problem with Stafford's effort level. If you do, we disagree.

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12-01-2011, 02:03 PM
  #330
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Playing a power game is a mentality that manifests itself in a style. Stafford is a big man who plays a finesse game, much like Vanek. It's just not in how he approaches the game.

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12-01-2011, 02:11 PM
  #331
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I don't think he floats, I think he doesn't pressure enough and doesn't finish his checks. Hell, Vanek has been more of a notable physical presence than Drew this year.

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12-01-2011, 02:13 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
No, that's actually not my argument. Drew expressly stated that they had, in the past, wanted him to be a "power forward," but they wanted him to change course, drop weight, and be more of a skilled guy who has good size.
Great. Show me where they told him to stop going to the net and to stop using his size to his advantage. That's what he hasn't be doing this season that he did last season, that's part of what make a power forward, and that's part of his problem. They told him to change course because whatever he was doing before obviously wasn't working.

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And why does Drew have to be the power forward? Vanek has good size, he's not a power forward. Luke has good size, he's not a power forward.
Vanek figures out a way to succeed without being a power forward. If Stafford could do that, fine, but he hasn't. Adam's played a grand total of 43 games. He's fortunate he's playing at all. In three years, I'd expect him to develop a power forward game.

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12-01-2011, 02:19 PM
  #333
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It is pretty clear that Stafford just isn't shooting enough.

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12-01-2011, 02:20 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Great. Show me where they told him to stop going to the net and to stop using his size to his advantage. That's what he hasn't be doing this season that he did last season, that's part of what make a power forward, and that's part of his problem. They told him to change course because whatever he was doing before obviously wasn't working.



Vanek figures out a way to succeed without being a power forward. If Stafford could do that, fine, but he hasn't. Adam's played a grand total of 43 games. He's fortunate he's playing at all. In three years, I'd expect him to develop a power forward game.
I have seen him lower the shoulder and go to the net several times this season. The difference is that he's not scoring. I'm not going to get into an argument regarding whether he's doing it more or less frequently per game, because there's no way we'd be able to accurately quantify that. Also, teams watch video, so it's likely that they're looking to take that move away from him--the other guys get paid, too.

Right now, Drew's shooting% is 6.3%. His career shooting% is 12.6%. His shooting% should correct itself quite a bit as the season progresses. Other than him being a bit snakebitten and not producing, I haven't had much problem with Drew's game at all. He and Leino were consistently dominating the offensive zone earlier this season. It needs to start translating into points--and, quite honestly, I think most people are frustrated by the fact that he's not scoring good chances than anything--but it's not as if he's invisible and not getting chances.

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12-01-2011, 02:36 PM
  #335
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Kypreos tweets:

Quote:
RealKyper Nick Kypreos
#Ducks GM Bob Murray has assured Bobby Ryan he is off #NHL trading market today. Also told Ryan's desire to be moved is no longer an issue.
http://twitter.com/realkyper

Sounds like there was a serious rift between Ryan and Carlyle, and Carlyle lost. It'll be interesting to see how the Big Three does with Boudreau, especially on the heels of his late-game benching of Ovechkin and healthy scratch of Semin.

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12-01-2011, 02:41 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Kypreos tweets:



http://twitter.com/realkyper

Sounds like there was a serious rift between Ryan and Carlyle, and Carlyle lost. It'll be interesting to see how the Big Three does with Boudreau, especially on the heels of his late-game benching of Ovechkin and healthy scratch of Semin.
Murray!!!!!


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12-01-2011, 02:42 PM
  #337
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I'm not disappointed. I feel like acquiring Ryan was going to require too much of an overpayment. I'd like him, but only at the right price. Now Getzlaf, on the other hand . . . .

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12-01-2011, 02:44 PM
  #338
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Back to Parros....

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12-01-2011, 02:45 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by dire wolf View Post
I'm not disappointed. I feel like acquiring Ryan was going to require too much of an overpayment. I'd like him, but only at the right price. Now Getzlaf, on the other hand . . . .
I wish Getzlaf was available. I watched some of the Habs/Ducks game last night, and he was back to being his dominant self. Hitting, forechecking, scoring, setting up goals, etc. He was awesome.

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12-01-2011, 03:06 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
If not Ryan, you'd have to assume it would involve a defensemen.

Brookbank? Getting Loods back? Visnovsky?

Each has their own merits.
Lydman, yes, because 1) the coach trusted him 100%, which is more than can be said for Weber; 2) Lydman loved Buffalo and would have stayed if the Sabres offered him 3 years rather than 2; 3) while not the bruiser that Regehr is, Lydman is more physical than any other Sabre regular.

With Ehrhoff and Myers in the mix, Visnovsky doesn't make sense anymore IMO.

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It would also be cool to see Koivu in a Sabres uniform, but he's only signed through the rest of the season and at 37 I doubt he re-signs here, so I don't think he's involved.
Koivu's tank is running on empty - he's been decent thus far primarily playing with his buddy, Selanne. I'd be very skeptical that, if removed from Selanne, he'd play with the same gusto in another city.

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If not Ryan...Lydman back to town? Remember Terry's hyperbolic statement at the TBN meeting where he said last year's team "would have ten more wins" if they kept Hank and Toni..


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Originally Posted by volatile View Post
Something around Sekera, Stafford + for Lydman, Ryan?

I like Sekera, a lot, but seems like a good piece to try and get better at forward.
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
In an article Jim Bob quoted in the connect the dots thread. The speculation on a Buffalo package was Stafford, a young NHL ready player and d-prospect. That type of deal makes a lot more sense from an Anaheim pov.
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If we bring in Ryan, Stafford is definitely being shipped out.
Stafford and Ryan are the same age and similar size - both suffer from inconsistency. I could see them very much being the two principals of any package.

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If Getzlaf's available, and you have a package that the Ducks are willing to take for him there's no way you don't pull the trigger for him. He'd automatically be the team's best player. Players like Getzlaf don't come around often.
He's probably not - for the reason you cited.

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McKenzie just said nothing's imminent on TSN.
Even moreso now that the coaching change was done....

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Would anyone have interest in moving Pominville or Vanek for Ryan?
Pominville, maybe - Vanek, no way.

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Originally Posted by JOHNBOY View Post
Andrej Sekera, Tyler Ennis and a 2012 First Round Draft Pick for Bobby Ryan.
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Originally Posted by Boose30 View Post
this is probably around whats going to happen, i can at least see ennis being a crucial part going their way
Ennis may appear expendable because of size but his next contract value seems a bit iffy to predict right now...

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The Mickey Mouse reference though was pointed at the lunacy of the Miller rumors - not necessarily the rumors of Anaheim-Buffalo trade or Ryan as a target, IMO.

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When Team USA passed him over, he was pretty good at cramming it down their throats the next season.
Do you mean him being bypassed for the 2006 Torino games? That would be 4 years between proving Team USA wrong - although Miller did seem to shine in every game against the 2006 GM's (Don Waddell) Thrashers after the snub...

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I would think it is for lydman...the sabres have lacked a stabilizing presence on the back end for awhile now...given the injuries on d and the complete circus it has been I wouldn't be surprised to see them go back to someone they know. Also, both leo and regehr have played with lydman in Calgary, along with those current buffalo d men that are familiar with him...thus, it would be much easier to integrate him into our system than someone else.


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Absolutely. Stafford doesn't hit people. Ryan does it on a gamely basis. If the offense isn't there, the physical presence is. Stafford has never provided us with that.

Bobby Ryan definitely makes us a better team, especially if the only roster forward removed is Staff.
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Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
I think your over estimating Ryan's physical side...he certainly can dominate in this way, but more often than not, like stafford, he plays at 80%. There is a reason they may move him and not one of the other members of the big three. He plays with the least amount of edge...
Much of the criticism here in LA from Ducks' followers is that Ryan doesn't use his size enough. Much like Stafford, he does crash the net and cause traffic in front of the goalie but Ryan is no more of a bodychecker than Stafford is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Kypreos tweets:

http://twitter.com/realkyper

Sounds like there was a serious rift between Ryan and Carlyle, and Carlyle lost. It'll be interesting to see how the Big Three does with Boudreau, especially on the heels of his late-game benching of Ovechkin and healthy scratch of Semin.
If Ryan doesn't catch fire under Boudreau, and the slightest inkling of friction between the two occurs, you can bet Ryan will be dubbed a coach-killer and quickly shopped around.

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Back to Parros....
Really? Seems getting a Peters-like goon just to quell the bitterness of the Bruin loss a few weeks ago is a trivial and low-priority need.

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12-01-2011, 03:16 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
If Ryan doesn't catch fire under Boudreau, and the slightest inkling of friction between the two occurs, you can bet Ryan will be dubbed a coach-killer and quickly shopped around.
In which case, why would we want him?

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12-01-2011, 03:20 PM
  #342
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In which case, why would we want him?
To get rid of Ruff.

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12-01-2011, 03:31 PM
  #343
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To get rid of Ruff.
yeah, brilliant

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12-01-2011, 05:02 PM
  #344
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even if they were talking, Ducks say they are cooling talks with teams for now

Real_ESPNLeBrun Ducks
phoned teams back today that
had interest in B. Ryan and told
them they would quiet things
down on that front for now

mobile.twitter.com/real_espnlebrun/status/142375566773981185

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12-01-2011, 06:44 PM
  #345
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But complaining about Stafford not being a power forward when abandoning the attempt to be a power forward led to his awesomeness last year is pretty ridiculous.
They're just responding to someone who called Stafford a power forward (which we all agree he isn't) - not so much complaining.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with wishing Stafford made better use of his size - someone that can produce like Stafford AND play like a legit power forward would be a huge upgrade for this team. Stafford could stay lean and still play with more tenacity and grit.

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12-01-2011, 06:54 PM
  #346
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Just heard that Ryan is off the market.

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12-01-2011, 06:58 PM
  #347
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I am extremely interested to see if a trade does indeed go down with the Ducks, just not for Ryan.

If there's no trade with the Ducks, that could very well make our speculation official - that they were talking to them about Ryan. That's good. That means Regier and co are recognizing that our top six is lacking some serious jam.

I wonder what other teams they could be calling?



It could also mean that whatever other trade they were working on also fell through.

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12-01-2011, 07:01 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
I am extremely interested to see if a trade does indeed go down with the Ducks, just not for Ryan.

If there's no trade with the Ducks, that could very well make our speculation official - that they were talking to them about Ryan. That's good. That means Regier and co are recognizing that our top six is lacking some serious jam.

I wonder what other teams they could be calling?



It could also mean that whatever other trade they were working on also fell through.
Not necessarily. It could just mean Regier went "Ryan's available? What the hell, let's see what Anaheim wants."

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12-01-2011, 07:11 PM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
Really? Seems getting a Peters-like goon just to quell the bitterness of the Bruin loss a few weeks ago is a trivial and low-priority need.
Your sarcasm detector is broken....

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12-01-2011, 07:15 PM
  #350
gallagt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Not necessarily. It could just mean Regier went "Ryan's available? What the hell, let's see what Anaheim wants."
That could be. I just feel that if it indeed was a move for Ryan, Darcy was really pushing hard. Only because this stuff doesn't generally get leaked.

Wishful thinking I suppose. I really hope he realizes that this forward group is lacking in areas.

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