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Old
12-01-2011, 04:58 PM
  #101
Sabretip
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To Buffalo:
Ryan, LW/RW, 24, $5.1M
Lydman, D, 34, $3.0M

To Anaheim:
Stafford, RW, 24, $4.0M
Boyes, RW, 29, $4.0M
Weber, D, 23, $950K
2012 draft pick

Vanek-Roy-Pominville
Ennis-Adam-Ryan
Gerbe-Hecht-Leino
McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta

Regehr-Myers
Lydman-Ehrhoff
Leopold-Sekera

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Old
12-01-2011, 07:12 PM
  #102
5 Minute Major
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To Buffalo:

C- Paul Stastny- 6.6 million per

To Colorado:

RW- Drew Stafford- 4 million

D- Andrej Sekera- 2.75 million

Prospect: Joel Armia- C


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Old
12-01-2011, 07:17 PM
  #103
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As I mentioned in the Gaustad extension thread, now that the Ryan is off the table, I would hope that Regier is trying to pull a center from somewhere - and not just as a rental. Our depth on the wings is very nice, but we need a pivot for now and the next few years.

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Old
12-01-2011, 07:18 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
To Buffalo:

C- Paul Stastny- 6.6 million per

To Colorado:

RW- Drew Stafford- 4 million

D- Andrej Sekera- 2.75 million

Prospect: Joel Armia- C

Ouch that hurts with THAT prospect

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Old
12-01-2011, 07:33 PM
  #105
5 Minute Major
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Ouch that hurts with THAT prospect

Maybe. Armia may turn out to be a stud or he may be a dud.

We won't even begin to know that for a few years.

I'd take the chances and think this would be a good deal for both teams.

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Old
12-01-2011, 07:58 PM
  #106
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Sabres "rebuild"

The Sabres have built a strong organization. They have an enthusiastic owner with deep pockets in Terry Pegula. A strong management team led by Ted Black and Darcy Regier. And one of the leagues best coaches in Lindy Ruff. They boast a considerably talented core of players, referred to locally as the "Rochester core" who took over the leadership of the team after the departure of Danny Briere and Chris Drury. This group includes Ryan Miller, Thomas Vanek, Derek Roy, Jason Pominville, Paul Gaustad, Drew Stafford and Andrej Sekera.

Yet while the Sabres have been a consistent playoff contender since the lockout, they have not been a true Stanley Cup contender on a year to year basis. This was made definitively clear to me the other week during the Sabres-Bruins game. To me it wasn't Lucic running Miller. Or the lack of reaction to that hit. It was the demoralization that occured after the fact. The team lost all confidence. Instead of taking that situation and using it to become angry, aggressive and assertive in their play, they became scared, timid, and sloppy.

I am of the belief that this lack of ability to contend for the Stanley Cup on an annual basis is due to the makeup of the teams core. Whether it is because of a lack of leadership and toughness, or a lack of talent, or issues inside the locker room amongst the players themselves, this team does not, in its current makeup, have what it takes to be a true Stanley Cup contender.

It is this reason that I am proposing here a partial re-build of the Sabres, in order to make them a true Stanley Cup contender on an annual basis.

So, I have a list of proposals, slated to take place at the end of this current season, that I believe will make this club a true contender, and am hoping that you will judge them each on 3 categories.

1. Is said deal acceptable in terms of value?

2. Is this a deal that both sides would be likely to consider, if not accept?

3. Does the deal make the Sabres better?


So... here it goes.


Deal #1:

To Buffalo:

C-Jordan Staal

To Pittsburgh:

LW- Tyler Ennis
RW- Drew Stafford
C- Daniel Catenacci
Buffalo's 2012 1st Round Pick

Why Buffalo does it:
-They gain a young, big, physical centerman, who has the ability to be a 35-35-70 guy, with annual Selke consideration. He has room to mature, he's in his 6th full NHL season, and only recently turned 23years old.

Why Pittsburgh does it:
-The Penguins have been getting particularly stellar play out of Staal and James Neal. Neal is up for a new contract at the end of the current season. Pittsburgh will also be looking to extend both Crosby and Staal, who have one more year on their contracts after the 2011-2012 season. Staal, if he continues his current play, will likely be looking for a bump in pay, and maybe a place where is he is more than a third line center (I know he is more than that to the team, but maybe he will want to challenge himself to go to a place where he can be "the guy"). These events may prompt Shero to be open to offers for Staal. This one provides the Penguins with two players who can give the Penguins two top lines, with Stafford capable of 30-30-60 seasons, and Ennis having the potential to be ppg player, but realistically a 65-75pt player. Daniel Catenacci is a guy who could develop into a very nice, stingy 3rd line center. He's undersized but has great speed and I think would work well in Pittsburgh's system.
A 1st round pick is a first round pick, probably mid to late first round, but it adds a prospect into the organization that will eventually be a talented player on an ELC, giving the Penguins cheap talent to support their superstars.

So here's how Pittsburgh's roster could look after such a deal...

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Tyler Ennis ($2.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Drew Stafford ($4.000m)
Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m) / Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m) / Arron Asham ($0.775m)

DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Kristopher Letang ($3.500m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.566m) / Matt Niskanen ($1.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m) / Brent Johnson ($0.600m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,366,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $933,333


Deal 2:

To Buffalo:

C-Paul Stastny
G-Semyon Varlamov
D-Erik Johnson

To Colorado:

C-Derek Roy
G-Ryan Miller
RW-Corey Tropp

Why Buffalo does it:

Sabres gain a new top-6 center in Stastny, who is more of a playmaker than Roy, younger. While more expensive, Stastny, at 25 years of age, still has 85-90 point upside if he can find his groove. Varlamov might not have the resume Miller does, but he's young and talented. He would form a nice combination with Enroth that would keep both guys hungry for playing time. Erik Johnson adds a big guy, strong shot, and another right-handed shot on the back end.

Why Colorado does it:

Stastny's production the past couple seasons in Colorado has slipped, and he may be in need of a change of scenery. Roy gives them an answer to that loss. Miller gives them the type of goaltending that the Avs haven't had since Roy, and while Miller isn't Roy, he is an elite goaltender in the league right now, and with a young group of forwards and defensemen, sometimes that is one of the best ways to allow the young guys to play well as they will have more confidence, and therefore less worries in their netminder. They lose Johnson, but he has been underperforming the past two seasons and into this year. And with the amount of young defensemen they have in the system, he will be expendable. Tropp gives Colorado a strong, physical, youngster who could be a 3rd line guy for them by next season, and isn't afraid to play hard along the boards at all.

Colorado's new roster (I admit I'm not familiar with all their players, so I didn't adjust cap space for re-signings and the depth chart might be a bit off):

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Gabriel Landeskog ($3.575m) / Matt Duchene ($3.200m) / Milan Hejduk ($3.000m)
Joey Hishon ($1.200m) / Derek Roy ($4.000m) / David Jones ($2.500m)
Daniel Winnik ($0.950m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($0.900m) / Peter Mueller ($2.000m)
Cody McLeod ($1.033m) / T.J. Galiardi ($0.700m) / Chuck Kobasew ($1.250m)
/ Jay McClement ($1.450m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kyle Quincey ($3.125m) / Ryan O'Byrne ($1.800m)
Shane O'Brien ($1.100m) / Jan Hejda ($3.250m)
Duncan Siemens ($1.350m) / Ryan Wilson ($1.275m)
Stefan Elliott ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Ryan Miller ($6.250m) / Jean-Sebastien Giguere ($1.250m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $46,058,333; BONUSES: $3,435,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $18,241,667


and lastly, here's how the Sabres would look after such deals...

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Thomas Vanek ($7.142m) / Paul Stastny ($6.600m) / Jason Pominville ($5.300m)
Ville Leino ($4.500m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Brad Boyes ($2.000m)
Nathan Gerbe ($1.433m) / Luke Adam ($0.875m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Cody McCormick ($1.200m) / Paul Gaustad ($2.300m) / Patrick Kaleta ($0.907m)

DEFENSEMEN
Robyn Regehr ($4.020m) / Tyler Myers ($5.500m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Jordan Leopold ($3.000m)
Andrej Sekera ($2.750m) / Erik Johnson ($2.600m)
/ Mike Weber ($0.950m)

GOALTENDERS
Jhonas Enroth ($0.675m) / Semyon Varlamov ($2.833m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,457,023; BONUSES: $87,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $842,977

*Could see Hecht being re-signed as well as, or instead of Boyes, so there's that as well. And don't forget, they'll still have Foligno in the AHL, Sundher likely there next season and Armia likely to come over at the end of this season or next season.

Idk if this all works. Maybe take Johnson out from the Colorado proposal, we really don't need him or anything, just thought it'd be a nice bonus if we could get him. Also, I posted the Staal proposal on the Pittsburgh boards, it was about 70-30 against it, but I felt like a lot of Pittsburgh fans weren't taking their teams cap implications into account (with Crosby, Malkin and Staal likely to eventually take up about 1/3 of their cap space or more, $23M-$24M).

Flame away folks!!!!

And no, I don't expect anything like this to happen, but wouldn't it be cool?

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Old
12-01-2011, 08:01 PM
  #107
Afino
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Both trades are massive overpayments.


And Pittsburgh wouldn't trade Staal.

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Old
12-01-2011, 08:08 PM
  #108
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Isn't there an official trade proposal thread

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Old
12-01-2011, 08:14 PM
  #109
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I wouldnt touch deal 1 with a ten foot pole i dont get the facination with overpaying for Staal

and St. Louis laughs heartily in your face. Look at what they gave up for Varlamov...theyd want that back...even if stasny and roy were even(which they arent) your assuming tropp=johnson...L-O-L

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Old
12-01-2011, 08:25 PM
  #110
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Well I'm ok with taking Johnson out of that second deal. Miller and Roy is Definitely and even deal for Stastny and Varlamov IMO. The Avalanche gain an elite netminder, and a pretty comparable center in Roy, so it doesn't seem that far fetched.

And personally, I'd overpay for Jordan Staal any day. I could see him being a bigger, more talented version of Drury for this team. And I'd it takes Ennis and Stafford plus, I still do it.

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Old
12-01-2011, 08:31 PM
  #111
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Very well drawn up and thought out.

However, I would not do deal #1. I understand the need for a Staal type center but I think it's overpayment.

I would do #2. Stastny needs a change of scenery, he is incredibly talented but has slumped in the last year or so. Varlamov is very, very good when he's on, unfortunately that is not all the time but I think he'll find some consistency as he gets older. I think Johnson still has #1 dman potential and would look fantastic on the top pairing with Myers.

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Old
12-01-2011, 08:35 PM
  #112
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I do both, Staal is exactly what we need. Only 23 and will be a monster for years to come. Anything to get rid of Roy for the second, I'm a little worried about Varlamov's health, but he has the tools to be a #1, so I do both.

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Old
12-01-2011, 08:46 PM
  #113
dkollidas
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I will also say I tried to make each deal as fair as possible for both sides. I really do believe each real GM would really consider each deal long and hard, value is there in my opinion.

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Old
12-01-2011, 09:35 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Ouch that hurts with THAT prospect
I agree, Armia has sky high potential, we're giving up too much in that deal

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Old
12-01-2011, 09:37 PM
  #115
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Staal is not THAT good. He's a great player, and I'd like to have him on the team, but not for all of that. You would be off the Staal bandwagon faster than a Leino fan fell off his bandwagon if you think he's worth all of that talent. Also, the Pens cap structure, system, and oh yeah the Stanley Cup chemistry makes this idea seem very PlayStationy.

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Old
12-01-2011, 09:38 PM
  #116
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Hanzal for Roy straight up. Hanzal is every bit as good as Staal (ie. NOT overrated).

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Old
12-01-2011, 09:49 PM
  #117
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I like the final roster. The trade for Staal is an overpayment and I'm a little worried about an Enroth/Varlamov tandem, but I do like the build of the team overall. Pretty nice job.

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Old
12-01-2011, 09:58 PM
  #118
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Which NHL EA game are you playing?

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Old
12-01-2011, 10:00 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
To Buffalo:

C- Paul Stastny- 6.6 million per

To Colorado:

RW- Drew Stafford- 4 million

D- Andrej Sekera- 2.75 million

Prospect: Joel Armia- C

No way. What kind of numbers do you think Stastny will actually put up to justify a deal like that?

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Old
12-01-2011, 10:05 PM
  #120
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I like the idea and outcome and deals seem possible except the how the Pitt fans see Staal as a perfect fit for their team/game right now. They really don't need to trade 'him' but....I haven't said this in months but I think we'd have a better shot at getting Malkin and his larger salary, redundant Crosbyish game.

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Old
12-01-2011, 10:26 PM
  #121
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I give the OP 3/10 XBoxes for this thread. It is decently thought out, but Staal is unreadable as they get.

The only way the Sabres will lose their doughnut lines is by drafting...or lots and lots of money in FA. Hopefully, next summer, T Pegs and the gang will sign an actual center to play center

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Old
12-01-2011, 10:43 PM
  #122
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HOLY COW!

What's with all the talk that Staal at 4 mil is an overpaid Staal?

NO WAY!

If you can pay Roy that much, a far more dynamic Staal is worth at least as much. Plus, Staal is better at helping his linemates get points, whereas Roy is selfish, getting points for himself while his linemates suffer. When Roy went out last season due to injury, his linemates weren't rallying around him with their inspired play, they were just getting more opportunities!

Also, Staal's younger, more of a high-profile name (helps attract other talent) and he's got size.

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Old
12-01-2011, 10:46 PM
  #123
5 Minute Major
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Quote:
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No way. What kind of numbers do you think Stastny will actually put up to justify a deal like that?
On the first line with Vanek and Pominville?

70 to 80 points.

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Old
12-01-2011, 10:56 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squantosawuss View Post
HOLY COW!

What's with all the talk that Staal at 4 mil is an overpaid Staal?

NO WAY!

If you can pay Roy that much, a far more dynamic Staal is worth at least as much. Plus, Staal is better at helping his linemates get points, whereas Roy is selfish, getting points for himself while his linemates suffer. When Roy went out last season due to injury, his linemates weren't rallying around him with their inspired play, they were just getting more opportunities!

Also, Staal's younger, more of a high-profile name (helps attract other talent) and he's got size.
Nobody's saying Staal is overpaid. We're saying the trade proposed to bring him here is an overpayment.

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Old
12-01-2011, 11:16 PM
  #125
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Deal one is an overpayment for Staal honestly. I love what he brings to the table, but that's a whole lot to give up for a second line center.

I would do the second deal in a heartbeat. Roy for Stastny is close to an even swap (though Roy probably has more value because of his contract), and Miller and Tropp for Varlamov and Johnson is such an advantage for us. I don't see Colorado touching that deal with what they've paid via trade for Johnson and Varlamov.

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